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Goner Message Board / ???? / Film noir
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:09 pm
 
What are good ones to see? I've only seen about 3-4 tops in my lifetime. Kinda wanna go on a binge and just watch a bunch to make up for lost time.
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:27 pm
 
Old or new?
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:35 pm
 
D.O.A!
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:36 pm
 
got a flim noir 'box set" at best buy. 12 movies for 20$!
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:40 pm
 
Mildred Pierce (Joan Crawford!)
The Postman Always Rings Twice (the original from 1946 w/ John Garfield)
The Maltese Falcon (of course!)

There are dozens.... but I say your signposts of quality are: James M. Cain, Dashiell Hammet, Raymond Chandler & Bogey....these names in a movie = noir at its best
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:50 pm
 
I have seen so many, and love this genre but can't think of the names of any of 'em right now... I was gonna say the older ones are better (I think B&W film is the right medium for them) but I really have seen some good newer ones as well. My memory is shot, I smoke too much pot.
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 7:54 pm
 
Double Indemnity
In Cold Blood
Gaslight
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 8:02 pm
 
Lady of Shangaï

Kiss Me Deadly

Big Sleep

Crossfire

Ed Ulmer's Detour

Brute Force

Laura

Night of the Hunter

Siodmak's Crisscross

The Killing
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 8:09 pm
 
Pickup on South Street, my favorite(?)
The Killers
High Sierra featured Bogart and my favorite, Ida Lupino
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:23 pm
 
Ida Lupino rules...remember Lupino and Robery Ryan love story in Run for Cover ? That's some film noir...alsofrom the same Ray there's Party Girl ( a dark film noir in a splish-splash "metrocolor" with Bobby Taylor and Cyd Charisse..vavavoom) and the Lusty Men w/ Bob Mitchum ( " Broken bones, broken bottles, broken everything...")
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:31 pm
 
Raw Deal

Le Doulos

Touch of Evil
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:34 pm
 
M
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:41 pm
 
Fuck, there's also the great Body and Soul by Abraham Polonsky, that Scorsese took bits off for Raging Bull...

and yeah our own french Melville ( one of the few real film noir addict in the country back then with all the few Cahiers du Cinema convicts like Godard, Truffaut, Barbet Schroeder and such) who indeed did Le Doulos, the Samurai ( ripped off by everyone with decent taste ever since), the Shadow Army, the Red Circle, and Fever Heat...
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:41 pm | Edited by: kemp_boyd
 
M le maudit too...mandatory
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 10:45 pm
 
the Samurai just came out on criterion dvd. alain delon might have been the coolest person of the 20th century.
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 11:30 pm
 
try your library for a guide to the genre, many books cover the actors, directors and climate that spawned the film type.

One of my faves from the 70s, kinda a tribute to the genre was one with Gene Hackman and a very young Melanie Griffith, set in the Florida keys, but I can't recall the title.

I just saw Robert Downey and Val Kilmer in "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and they tried to noir it up, but it was more of chase and buddy flick..
Posted: Oct 28, 2005 11:34 pm
 
Bob? WTF? It's not 1-2-3-4 or 5AM?
Oh. I mean, hey Bob!
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:28 am
 
Fuck, there's also the great Body and Soul by Abraham Polonsky, that Scorsese took bits off for Raging Bull...


And there's that Alain Delon flick that Raging Bull is also informed by - Rocco and his Brothers. Scorsese also had a hand in the restoration and re-release of Plein Soleil - the one about Ripley/Greenleaf that was later so very badly remade with Matt Damon in that role in The Talented Mr Ripley
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:30 am
 
Point Blank
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:44 am
 
Night Moves is the one from the '70s with Hackman and Griffith.

Some other good ones not mentioned yet are:

Out of the Past
Nightmare Alley
The Set-Up
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 1:21 am
 
Gun Crazy
The Killers
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 3:10 am
 
Strangers on a Train
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 3:11 am
 
for a mix of female lib + film noir + western spoof try one called JOHNNY GUITAR. Great later Marlene Deitrich flick, great kodachrome color too, big fire at the end and a tale of how the wild west was tamed or got squared by the social squares.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 7:53 am
 
fuck, i'm lagging on this thread....this'll repeat above but here are my faves.
Riffifi (french noir, by far my favorite)
The Killing
Asphalt Jungle
Maltese Falcon
Kansas City Confidential
Big Clock
Nightmare Alley
Strange Love of Martha Ivers
Out of the Past
Gilda, Lady of Shanghai (where i met my wife and namesake...)
Le Doulos
Le Circle Rouge
Crime Wave
oooh, the SF film noir festival is in january, anybody else going?
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 8:58 am
 
for a mix of female lib + film noir + western spoof try one called JOHNNY GUITAR. Great later Marlene Deitrich flick, great kodachrome color too, big fire at the end and a tale of how the wild west was tamed or got squared by the social squares.

com'mon man, joan crawford...it's my name sake. anyway, winchester 73 is the best western ever but johnny guitar is close cus nick ray. (period)
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 9:08 am
 
wages of fear. the best movie ever made. no-orish BOOO!
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 9:58 am
 
guns and sexy women. noir! i always wonder how the women in noir (40s/50s) lived in real life. if they had a good life or a shitty one. hopefully good but you never know. hope they got some big dicks in their time. they deserve it. i would love to have a trophy gal i met in a gasstation or diner and go on the run with her and fight the law. that would be the kitten's tits. plenty of guns, booze and trouble thrown in for good measure! that would be so fun. fucking, robbing, shooting, eluding! yeah!
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 10:07 am
 
lauren bacall, joan crawford and ida lupino's lives are all pretty well documented. i would say that these three dames (cuz in noir, they are dames) had a good life and got things their way and NO WIRE HANGERS.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 10:58 am
 
dames

i call women broads, dames, and gals. I think "broads" is like a 50s Rat Pack term.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 11:15 am
 
fucking, robbing, shooting, eluding! yeah!

Sounds good to me!
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 11:16 am
 
also, the original Dillinger is pretty good (the one with the guy from Reservoir Dogs). Actually, the 70's one is pretty nice, too.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 12:35 pm
 
call them women "mice"
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 3:50 pm
 
the Samurai just came out on criterion dvd. alain delon might have been the coolest person of the 20th century.

yep. Le Samouri or however you spell it is my all time favorite noir flick. totally badass in every way.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 4:44 pm
 
MINISTRY OF FEAR....HANDS DOWN.
Posted: Oct 29, 2005 10:20 pm
 
smokey and the bandit
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 4:36 pm
 
The Postman Always Rings Twice (the original from 1946 w/ John Garfield)

I watched this last night and I LOVED IT! Lana Turner only wears white clothes in it. She has no eyebrows either (shaved 'em off for an earlier role and they never grew back.)

next up I plan to see:
Mildred Pierce/Criss Cross/Pickup on South Street/Killer Bait/Kiss me Deadly. Then some other probably. More from what ya'll listed.

Thanks...
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 5:28 pm
 
In my opinion, you should start with the classics of the genre...in this order

The Big Sleep (classic)
Double Indemnity (masterpiece of the genre)
In A Lonely Place (masterpiece)
The Big Heat (amazing...then watch Lang's Fury and Hangman Also Dies)
Kiss Me Deadly (total influence on Godard...and Tarantino)

more classics...

Gun Crazy (great B film)
The Killer (Kubrick)
Out of the Past
Pickup On South Street
Force of Evil
Night and the City

then end with what is widely considered to be the bookend of the genre:

Touch Of Evil

Then, check out all the amazing French Noir:

Le Samouri - one of the best films of the 60s (or ever...)
Rififi - the best heist scene ever filmed
Bob Le Flambeur (better than Le Doulos in my opinion)
Breathless
Shoot The Piano Player

I'm sure I'm missing some, but these are some of my favorites...also, be sure to check out some great send-ups to the genre from the late 60s and 70s

Point Blank - stylish mind-fuck, my favorite Lee Marvin film
The Long Goodbye
Chinatown
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 5:38 pm
 
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid is a noir send-up mixed with clips from the oldies it's goofing on. It's worth a watch after you've seen a few real noir films and need to laugh. Steve Martin is also kickass in it.
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 5:58 pm
 
The Killer (Kubrick)

The Killing is Kubrick...Sterling Hayden and pals rob horsetrack...weird time changes and flashbacks ala Pulp Fiction

The Killers is Siodmak....Burt Lancaster is a Boxer who's gonna get it...Eva Gardner is hottttt....starts at end then flashes back ala all of Taretino's
this was remade in the 60's with Lee Marvin, PoliceWoman, Cassavettes and our hero, Ronny Reagan

although there is an awesome John Woo film calles The Killer...
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 8:10 pm
 
Chinatown - simply a great movie - and if you grew up in LA, as I did, it really does capture the Los Angeles of a certain era which is long long gone.

HBO produced for TV their version of POODLE SPRINGS (Chandler book) starring James Caan and directed by Bob Rafelson (teleplay by Tom Stoppard!)

It is the story of Phillip Marlowe, set in 1963 when he thinks he's going to give up the private dick life, settle down, get married, etc., and then learns that his new father in law is embroiled in one of those pesky noir capers involving blackmail, strippers and gun play
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 10:02 pm
 
in a lonely place is a masterpeice. although not a crime film...still dark and still film noir. one of my favorite bogart parts....a great movie.
i forgot about gun crazy...kiss me deadly...pretty much anything tom listed is fantastic.
this gun for hire is great...a little closer to the cagney school of crime film but still noir.
and i CANNOT stress Riffifi enough...watch that movie!
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 10:06 pm
 
Rififi is being re-made, you know! - With Al Pacino starring, Harold Becker directing, set for 2007 release
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 11:36 pm
 
ugh...say it ain't so.
riffifi was basicallly remade in the 70's with le circle rouge (also with alain deleon)...a little different but the heist scenes are pretty much identical.

anybody ever watch that tv show from the 80's Crime Story? not exactly film noir but still definitely influenced..
Posted: Oct 30, 2005 11:56 pm | Edited by: fierydrunk
 
Rififi is great--I still think of that cheeseball Rififi song the lil chickie in the nightclub sang.

Strangers on a Train was on the other night on TCM. Robert Walker as Bruno is hysterical. Some of those shots are simply INSANE. Shadow of a Doubt is also superb.

This isn't film noir but check out Stella Dallas. Anything with Barbara Stanwyck from the 30's-50's need not be ignored. She rules.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 12:00 am
 
anybody ever watch that tv show from the 80's Crime Story

I did - it was a Michael Mann production and introduced Dennis Farina - he's now on Law & Order (Orbach's replacement). I thought it was ridiculously violent... so much so that I could no longer watch it - esp. after they moved the story line completely to Las Vegas.

TCM is showing NORTH BY NORTHWEST right at this very moment (well, in the Pacific Time Zone at any rate)

Barbara Stanwyck does totally rule. When she was on the 60s television series, The Big Valley, my mother used to always talk about how great she was and I didn't get it until many years later when I saw her movies.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 2:22 am
 
Barbara Stanwyck does totally rule. When she was on the 60s television series, The Big Valley, my mother used to always talk about how great she was and I didn't get it until many years later when I saw her movies.

Same here. I first was amazed by her in Double Indemnity, but Stella Dallas takes the cake. That movie is almost perfect. I just rented The Strange Love of Martha Ivers and she has that magnetic/repulsive thing going in that too. I adore her!
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:30 am
 
Crime Story is great...but it is definitley flawed. a lot of bad acting and it is more of a shoot'em up type of show but i still love it...a lot of random actors at the very beginnings of their career and fuck, andrew dice clay has a main role! i was at a film noir festival here in oakland and they were showing crime story between the movies...great shit. a lot better than miami vice.
sorry, wrong number is another great barbara stanwyck movie. strange love...is a fantastic movie, a pretty strange subject matter (especially the ending) for that time. ida lupino's a great director.
somebody mentioned johnny guitar up above.....check out the movie 'pursued'. it's a robert mitchum western but more film noir than a classic western.
anyone seen that new alfred hitchcock presents box set? i vaguley remember watching that on tv when i was young, but i hear it's great.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:41 am
 
Kinda sorta noir (in a more modern sense) and one hell of a fuckin film is 'Blood Simple.' I think that movie is just about perfect.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:56 am
 
yeah, that is a great one. i thought 'man who wasn't there' was great too
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 8:12 am
 
"Blood Simple" is great. I saw it recently on IFC or some such channel, it still holds up. Brutal flick.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 12:50 pm
 
Perry Mason.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 1:40 pm
 
Perry Mason.

??? Foreigner ya think?

These are from the '40s.

Thieves' Highway, The Strange Love of Martha Ivers, The Stranger, Whistle Stop, Shock!, Gilda, Deception, Deadline at Dawn, Dark Corner, Crack Up, The Chase, The Black Dahlia, Black Angel, The Big Sleep, Strange Illusion, Scarlet Street, (Murder, My Sweet), Leave Her to Heaven, Lady on a Train, Dillinger, Detour, Conflict, The Woman in the Window, Phantom Lady, Ministry of Fear, The Mask of Dimitrios, Shadow of a Doubt, Lady Gangster, Johnny Eager, The Glass Key, Suspicion, The Shanghai Gesture, I Wake up Screaming, Citizen Kane, They Drive by Night, Johnny Apollo.

L.A. Confidential is really good. Came out about '97 or so? Pretty good movie.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:11 pm
 
Tom Dash's above list is pretty spot-on. I personally LOVE Touch of Evil, it's the most genius of the genius. After you get through the main one's mentioned above, here's some I think got overlooked:

The Sweet Smell of Success - Burt Lancaster as a Walter Winchell-type sleazy gossip columnist. Great scene where a drunk guy is gettin' thrown out of a bar in the background, and as he knocks over a trash can Lancaster says "I love this dirty town!". Also, great writing, lines like "The cats in the bag, and the bag's in the river." and "I'd hate to take a bite of you, you're a cookie full of arsenic."

Sunset Boulevard - great story of Hollywood sucking out your soul. Any movie that starts out being narrated by a corpse bobbing facedown in a swimming pool has gotta be considered noir.

The Wages of Fear - French thriller that has displaced Rififi and Le Samouri in my heart as far as frog noir goes. An evil American oil company (nice how a movie from '55 can stay relevant) hires some down-on-their-luck tough guys to drive nitroglycirin across bumpy jungle roads. The South American village the action starts in totally out-sleazes the border town in Touch of Evil. Damn! This one's a killer.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:18 pm
 
Oh, yeah, and everybody forgot "A Face In The Crowd". Genius, pre-"Network" film that does everything that movie does better and 20 years earlier. And you get to see Andy Griffith play a hayseed sociopath.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:48 pm
 
The Sweet Smell of Success -
Sunset Boulevard -
The Wages of Fear -


These are all fantastic films...Face in the Crowd too - ANYONE into film should see this movie...but these aren't REALLY film noir - Sunset Blvd is one of my all time favorites...

Wages of Fear is indeed one of the most intense flicks - unlike most remakes, I really like this one, The Sorcerer

You know what else is KILLER and a really dark film about American morals, etc - Billy Wilder's, Kiss Me, Stupid...being a foreigner in America (he was German), Wilder had this uncanny knack for really exposing the underbelly of American Morality in the 1950s - see Apartment, Some Like It Hot, Ace in The Hole, etc...

Some others in the noir tradition 2 by British director Carol Reed

THE THIRD MAN - best Zither soundtrack ever...
ODD MAN OUT - Scorsese borrowed from this for AFTER HOURS...

ok, I could go on and on...
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 3:50 pm
 
actually sunset blvd can be considered noir I guess...I'm starting to split hairs...what a fantastic film
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 4:28 pm
 
What about The Lost Weekend? I know we are veering away from strict crime film, but that movie is SOOOOOOOOOO good.
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 6:52 pm
 
SUNSET BLVD is a total film noir...all the elements are there...plus the actors, c'mon...Von Stroheim, Keaton, DeMille etc.

And what an end...
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 7:49 pm
 
Ah, splitting hairs or no, great films. And DARK! If that doesn't make 'em film noir, what does? They may not have the typical crime/detective slant, but they's dark as fuck! Plus everybody else already named all the most well-known noir films, so I hadta throw out some obscurities...

And the Third Man is probably my favorite film, noir or otherwise, PERIOD! Really note perfect from start to finish. Joeseph Cotton was a great actor and he never topped this role/performance. Welles is top notch, and the direction by Carol Reed (the greatness of which he never even approached in his other films) is ace.

But for sheer sleaziness, you can't beat Andy Griffith subverting his Mayberry image in Face In the Crowd. When he judges the high school baton-twirling championships and is making eyes at the high-school age contestants (and makes the winner his child bride later on) - awesome!

Sweet Smell of Success I'd have to say is noir, as well. It's got it all - corrupt police, a drug bust, and sleaziness in spades. When the cigarette girl is crying and says "I don't do things like this" right before she is left to sleep with the aging gossip columnist - shit! That scene is hard core!
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 7:52 pm
 
But for sheer sleaziness, you can't beat Andy Griffith subverting his Mayberry image in Face In the Crowd. When he judges the high school baton-twirling championships and is making eyes at the high-school age contestants (and makes the winner his child bride later on) - awesome!

As an avid Andy Griffith Show viewer, I gotta see this! Thanks for the tip!
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 8:32 pm
 
night of the hunter!
Posted: Oct 31, 2005 8:52 pm
 
sweet smell of success, in my opnions has the greatest dialogue in film history. great acting to pull it off as well.
the third man is one lf my all time favorites too. for some reason it took me a long time to see it, but when i did i was completely blown away. the scene where you first see orson wells' face is brilliant.
i've never seen wages of fear...
have you checked out 'coup de torchon'? based on jim thompson's 'population 1280' and although completely different setting for a film noir, i think it still qualifies.
other greats...Murder My Sweet, Cape Fear (remake is great too), desperate, experiment in terror
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 2:22 pm
 
Am I the only one here who's never seen an episode of Perry Mason or the Andy Griffith Show? I'm pretty sure those are on TV here 1 or 2 times daily but never seen a single episode in all my life. You know what's a shitty film? What Ever Happened to Baby Jane. Shitty, shitty film about a bitch who's too lazy and afraid to get out of a fucking wheelchair for the whole film to make a phone call to the cops or to alert the next door neighbor of her problem with her stupid sister. This shit goes on for over two hours.
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 3:20 pm
 
shitty film about a bitch who's too lazy and afraid to get out of a fucking wheelchair for the whole film to make a phone call to the cops or to alert the next door neighbor of her problem with her stupid sister.

I guess you missed the big surprise ending.
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 3:27 pm
 
I saw a great film noir called 'The Mob' at a festival awhile back. as far as i know it's unavailable on video/dvd...too bad because it was a great crime film, funny, good acting...one of charles bronsons' first film appearances (a quick one).
another great one is 'where the sidewalk ends'.
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 3:40 pm
 
Fritz Lang's M supposed to be really killer. Never seen it though. I recall my sister saw it a few years ago and raved about it. The only Fritz I've seen has been the silent film Metropolis although it's so fucking nutso that I haven't ever been about to watch the thing all the way though. It's a good film to watch in the dark while listening to music on your headphones while getting stoned. After 30-40 minutes it'll probably wear you out though like it does me.
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 4:10 pm
 
M is M-azing!

Seriously though, it is a fantastic film. I saw it on HBO or Cinemax in the 8th grade and was terrified. One of my faves.
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 4:14 pm
 
has anybody seen the american remake of M from the 50's? i thought i had read that it's really good and at times comes off much better than the original?
Posted: Nov 1, 2005 4:21 pm
 
and might i re-recomend 'kansas city confidential'. a great, raw, gritty tough guy heist movie...great acting, too. made me name my cat after lee van cleef!
Posted: Nov 2, 2005 8:59 pm
 
I don' know 'bout dem movies wit black folks in 'em, even if dey is from France. I seen dat night o' da livin' dead once and oh boy ah tell ya.
Posted: Dec 3, 2005 11:54 am
 
i'm a sucker for gone w/ the wind, birth of a nation or the wizard of oz. i can never pick just one. it's just too hard.
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