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Goner Message Board / ???? / Pit Bulls
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 3:06 pm
 
Dana called me this morning and said there were 2 pitbulls in our yard; they were chasing our cat Greta. He said there was blood on the stoop and he couldn't find her. Apparently the whole neighborhood knows about these dogs. I saw the Animal Control van driving towards our house on my way to work. There are 3 schools within one mile of our house, and a lot of elderly residents and people with small children in our neighborhood. I am just so upset, imagining my beautiful little cat getting mauled by 2 pitbulls. I am going to call Animal Control every day until they catch them. I am ready to go buy a gun (or some steaks and rat poison) to kill them MYSELF! I agree with Colorado (?) where all of this breed of dogs have been destroyed. There are good ones that people keep as pets but these were obviously fight dogs and they are loose in my neighborhood. I just took my baby for a walk around the neighborhood last night, which I will not do again until they catch these dogs. I don't even feel safe letting her play in the yard at this point. I will have to take her to one of my neighbor's yards where they have a gate to keep the loose dogs out! I am so freaked out right now... I am hoping our cat climbed a tree or got away somehow but I don't have much hope of that. I am glad they didn't get Dana or the baby! Dana said he tried to get the cat to come inside, and he tried to get the dogs away from her, but they started to go after him.... Fuck!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:20 pm
 
i think im getting my brothers dog this weekend, its a half boxer half pit. i havent met any mean pit bulls yet
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:30 pm
 
Being a beagle owner myself, pitbulls scare the shit out of me. If we go to the dog park, the minute one enters the area, we are outta there. It ain't worth messing around. At the dog park we go to, about a year ago, a pitbull went up to a pomeranian and snapped it's neck.
People say "oh there well behaved, it's how you train them." It may be true, but I don't buy it. I think they have some instinct deep down to kill and while that may not come out that often, I don't trust em one bit.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:33 pm
 
BAAAAAAAAA-RK!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:36 pm
 
Well Dana just went home on lunch to look for our cat, and she's ok, she's just stuck up in the tree in our back yard. A pitbull once attacked my friend's little dog and she was lucky to survive (and she is probably the cutest dog ever, by the way.) My babysitter said these pitbulls have been around for a while and they are chasing kids home after school. I called the dog warden and told him that and asked him if he could send someone out to the school and he said only if someone calls when they see them. There is only one warden for our whole county. He knows who the owners are though and said he was going to file a complaint with the prosecutor's office. I told him I am going to call every day until they catch them.
I think they have some instinct deep down to kill I agree with this, that even if they are "nice" for their owners, they might just snap at any time. They are unpredictable. Plus everyone I've known that's owned one had one for a reason ('we live in a ghetto,' etc.)
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:39 pm
 
i'm scared of pit bulls and chows. i've seen both types turn mean on their owners and kill other animals. ugh.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:40 pm
 
They're really cute as puppies.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:43 pm
 
I am ready to go buy a gun (or some steaks and rat poison) to kill them MYSELF!

I don't blame you! I love animals and all, hell more than people but if any vicious dog attacked my cat I would be waiting outside ready for the kill. Booby-trap a steak with some explosives. Get a water gun and fill it with gas and have lawn torch close by. Time to take the law in your own hands before any other cats, dogs, and children get hurt! My cousin had a pit bull and she was the nicest dog but if they're raised like this they need to go.
GOOD LUCK AND BE CAREFUL!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:46 pm
 
i'm scared of pit bulls and chows
I used to hate chows (still don't trust them entirely), but I've got some kind of chow/retriever mutt that is far too friendly. I think if a burglar came in, she'd lick 'em in the face.

Since your cat is o.k. can we derail the thread for dog stories?
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 5:59 pm | Edited by: paulyjerkface
 
I have a buncha' friends with pitbulls & they're some of the sweetest dogs you'll ever meet. My parents also have a pitbull who is 7 and she's one of the friendliest dogs around, she would never ever snap at somebody. It all depends on how you raise them & treat them. In my neighborhood there are tons of gangbanger douches with pitbulls who leave them outside tied up for days & beat the shit out of them, etc... so of course they're not going to be pissed off and mean! Those 'tards just want a tough dog to show off & fight.

Saying that all pitbulls are going to snap & kill at some point is pretty ridiculous, although I hear where yer coming from, having met some pretty mean ones in the past. I think it has everything to do with how they are treated from when they're are puppies on.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:02 pm
 
the American Pit Bull Terrier is one of the greatest animals that have ever lived. Of course there can be bad seeds. Look towards the owners. All dogs are capable of being shits. It just so happens that APBT is capable of a little more damage. Any feral lookin' mutt i run into around my hood scares me. I used to always carry a knife with me just in case. There's not as many lurking around anymore though. I don't have a dog anymore but if anyone had come after my "Slappy" i would have died with her.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:10 pm
 
I do agree, there is something to be said for people being nice to the animal from its birth. However, I just think this breed is somewhat unpredictable. Chows are the same way, especially with kids. Aforementioned doggy that was attacked by a pit bull was also attacked by a Chow that belonged to a friend of ours... She is so lucky to be alive. I had seen the one pitbull (white) running loose one day but I don't have a cell phone and I was leaving the house... So there is a brown one too and it has a collar. I am going to see if the dog warden will tell me who the owner is/what their address is so I can avoid their house/file a complaint with the prosecutor's office/keep an eye on them.

Saying that all pitbulls are going to snap & kill at some point is pretty ridiculous That's not what I said... I said I don't trust them not to snap, even with a good upbringing...


Since your cat is o.k. can we derail the thread for dog stories?
Fire away!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:13 pm
 
I used to hate chows (still don't trust them entirely), but I've got some kind of chow/retriever mutt that is far too friendly. I think if a burglar came in, she'd lick 'em in the face.

yeah...my roommate has a half chow half sheltie and she is the sweetest. i love that dog so much. but normally, full blooded chows i'm not exactly fond of.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:14 pm
 
Since your cat is o.k. can we derail the thread for dog stories?
Fire away!



Nah, the Pit Bull thing can get pretty heated. I do have a story of a Black Lab that got shot in the face by a .45 hollow-point, but I'll save it.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:51 pm
 
I * love* the pit bulls, but every one I have known has been pretty fucking unpredictable. They need serious discipline schooling from puppyhood and oversight by their owners. They--like most dogs--can't be trusted just running rampant in the neighborhood, either because dogs will just lay down in the street or run through traffic cos they are sweet and lazy or they will have the desire to chomp a Kindergartner or kittycat.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 6:54 pm
 
No healthy golden retriever ever chomped no kindergartner. C'mon now Big E. Smalls lover.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 7:19 pm
 
My friend fed his pit bull Willie cupcakes all the time and he died of a heartattack. He was sweet, but he coulda chomped me to death.

Douchebags always gotta get the new badass dog. Remember when dobermen pinchers were the hellhound dogs? German shepherds too. Chows are the most hated, all puffy and mean. Chainlink leashes wouldn't look as cool on chows.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 7:25 pm
 
But I bet there have been a few slobbering Golden Retrievers running through traffic wily-nily.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 7:56 pm
 
I got chased by a Doberman when I was riding my bike when I was about 15, and I've never liked that breed again either.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:12 pm
 
Pitts and Am Staffs are widely regarded as being the best breed of dog around children next to Golden Retrievers. There is actually a VERY low instance of Pitts/Staffs actually biting any human. The only problem is, if they ever do there can be CONSIDERABLE damage. Chows are widely regarded as the most aggressive and "bitey" breed. That being said, feral dogs of any breed should be dealt with immediately.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:16 pm
 
Come on people. Saying all pitbulls are killers is the same as saying all blacks are drug addicts and Mexicans are lazy. The dogs themselves are just like children. Raise them right and nothing bad will happen. Abuse them and watch them turn on society. The problem is the owner's lack of responsibility. Shoot the owners, not the dogs. I'm sure there is a leash law, it might even cover your cat.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:18 pm
 
My neighbors have a rotweiler/chow mix who acts pretty bad ass til you walk up to the fence then he wants to lick your hand and have you pet him. We have a collie and though she's cute and all-she's pretty dumb.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:31 pm
 
"Raise them right and nothing bad will happen."

This is wrong.

The fact is that even seemingly gentle, well-trained pit bulls can suddenly attack without warning. There's plenty of evidence for it. It's bred into them through generations. Pit bulls will attack the same way pointers point and Labs swim. It's not a surprise. In this way they are substantially different from most other breeds.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:32 pm
 
I still haven't made any sweeping generalizations that "all pitbulls are killers." I basically just want my baby-- and all the kids and elderly people in my neighborhood-- to be safe. I am not really going to shoot anyone, human or canine, because I don't want to go to jail. In the heat of the moment, thinking my cat might be dead, I was getting emotional, you know. I just don't like the idea of 2 pitbulls roaming around my neighborhood! If I knew who the owners were, I'd gladly file a complaint against them with the prosecutor's office. I just don't understand how that piece of paper is supposed to keep my cat --or my kid-- safe in our own yard...!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:37 pm
 
Raise them right and nothing bad will happen. Abuse them and watch them turn on society.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say wrong on that, too.
Well raised kids can shoot up schools, too, if you're comparing animals and humans.
Lwo legs good, four legs bad....
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 8:47 pm
 
Also leash laws don't cover cats. Cats don't have jaws that could take out someone's throat, unless they are mountain lions or something. The most "dangerous" thing my cat does is meow loudly and beg for affection. She has been known to poop in my neighbor's garage, but hey, she's a cat. They forgave her. It's not the same thing.

There was a 9 month old baby attacked by his own family's pet Pit Bull a few months ago; he somehow managed to survive but he is going to be badly scarred, I would imagine emotionally as well as physically. His head looked like a big plum after the attack. It was horrifying.

I do think the Pit Bull debate is one of those proverbial "cans of worms" there will always be people on both sides of the issue, equally vehement about their own personal correctness.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 9:03 pm | Edited by: backslider
 
My neighbor behind me is a great guy that likes to smoke a bit too much and treated his pit like his best friend. Often when I was in my back yard at the same time as the dog the 6 ft tall wooden fence would shake after the dog flung its entire weight at the fence full speed. My roommate and I always hoped the dog wouldn't find a way through. Then one morning my roommate came running in at 3am with our black lab in his arms. The little monster pit had gotten out and latched onto our lab's throat so hard my roommate couldn't get it off, even punching it repeatedly in the face. I probably wasn't sober enough to drive to emergency vet service at that hour but what choice did we have. My buzz was sure as hell gone anyway.
Worse yet was the night I saw a toddler on the news. The kid was barely old enough to walk and his head looked like a goddamn baseball with all the rows of stitches in it. The pit didn't attack the kid; it tried to dissect his brain. Then of course the kids mom came on (I think it was her cousinís pit or something) and said something that makes me think most people should never have kids or dogs, "He was the sweetest dog. No one ever thought he would snap. He never had any problems with any children ever. We never thought Lucifer was capable of this..."
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 9:04 pm
 
I know from experience that all dogs are unpredictable animals that can turn on anyone in any instance.
If you disagree on this, you need to read the ancient Aesop's fable on the wolf and the snake. Asking of a carnivorous animal to act civilized and use discretion like a human is silly. Dogs can turn right into feral monsters at the drop of a hat and turn on their owners, even if they've always been treated right.
SNORRRRRRT!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 9:22 pm
 
The little monster pit had gotten out and latched onto our lab's throat
Did your lab survive? I guess when the Pit Bull attacked my friend's dog, it was just flopping her around in its jaws like a wet washcloth. Wookie, the luckiest dog in Ohio.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 9:54 pm
 
four hundred and some dollars worth of surgery later she was ok. Luckily the pit's aim was bad, she hit Alice (our lab) a little low on a very muscular section (the image of her tendons coming out will always be burned in my mind). If it would have been another 6 inches higher the pit probably would have crushed Alice's throat.
It's probably best that we had to go to the vet really; otherwise I'm sure my roommate would have grabbed his shotgun and gone back over there. And on the brighter side Alice got a bunch of meat flavored doggy vicodin she seemed to like.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 9:57 pm
 
Alice got a bunch of meat flavored doggy vicodin she seemed to like.

actually, i think i'd like that too.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:01 pm
 
aise them right and nothing bad will happen. Abuse them and watch them turn on society.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say wrong on that, too.
Well raised kids can shoot up schools, too, if you're comparing animals and humans.
Lwo legs good, four legs bad....

aise them right and nothing bad will happen. Abuse them and watch them turn on society.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say wrong on that, too.
Well raised kids can shoot up schools, too, if you're comparing animals and humans.
Lwo legs good, four legs bad....


I defy you to find a well-raised kid that has shot up a school.
I know from experience that all dogs are unpredictable animals that can turn on anyone in any instance

All dogs, please. When a dog attacks a child, the owner of the dog is resposible, not the dog. Even if it's the family pet, the owner should know that dogs and small children are a potentially dangerous combination.


Also leash laws don't cover cats
Better check your local ordinances. In some places there are leash laws for cats. I love cats and dogs, but i don't like when the neighbor's cats shit in my yard. Or their dog for that matter.
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:38 pm
 
I defy you to find a well-raised kid that has shot up a school.

Kid from the northwest; I'll try and get the story for you, but it was back in the 90's, I think. Well-adjusted, upscale, and upstanding citizens, father and mother were totally into positive re-inforcement, no spanking, etc.

Also the Menendez brothers....
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:41 pm
 
Also the Menendez brothers....

Well, they only killed their parents....
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:47 pm
 
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:48 pm
 
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 10:54 pm
 
Yeah, that's the guy! Thanks, Donkey!
Posted: Sep 27, 2005 11:59 pm
 
father and mother were totally into positive re-inforcement, no spanking, etc.

I said WELL raised, not some liberal, everythings ok, we'll potty train you when you are seven, let's not keep score hippie bullshit.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 12:11 am
 
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 12:27 am | Edited by: carney
 
That article is interesting, but it refutes itself. After asking how could a child with a good upbringing do such a thing, it lists several failures of the parents, ie. allowing the kid to have non-sporting guns, the father's temper, the parent's refusal to accept that their child might have behavioral and or psychological problems. What it all comes down to is personal responsibility. If your dog hurts someone, you are resposible. If your minor child hurts somebody, again, you are responsible. If the kid is stockpiling weapons and building bombs and you fail to recognize this, you are responsible. I witnessed some really fucked up stuff as a kid, yet I realized on a couple occasions, that if acted on it , I would be responsible. I nearly killed my stepfather once (ok maybe a couple of times), but my Mom convinced me that if killed the bastard, i would end up in prison. Even though he DESERVED to die, he would have dragged me down with him.
I'm done with this, this is almost as bad as a gun-control or abortion debate.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 12:49 am
 
I suggest putting your child in pre-pre k the MOMENT after you give birth. I mean, you can never have enough training and knowledge for this big mean ol world we have here. There are a few pre-pre k schools here on the upper east side that I HIGHLY recommend and are also under $75000 thousand per year! What a deal! They grow up so fast so you know it's totally worth it not to take any chances.

Buy my perfume!
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 1:09 am
 
I said WELL raised, not some liberal, everythings ok, we'll potty train you when you are seven, let's not keep score hippie bullshit

Do you have kids? Just curious...

I witnessed some really fucked up stuff as a kid

You want a medal, or a chest to pin it on? Get in line.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 1:15 am
 
I grew up with all kinds of dogs, and know a bajillion people who have/had dogs (my girlfriend is also a vet tech) i've never heard of a case of one "turning into a feral monster". The only dogs I have ever heard of just randomly "snapping" for no reason & turning on their owners at the drop of a hat were either abused or senile.

Of course anything can happen (to people or dogs), but to say it's common for a well-treated dog to turn on their owners at the drop of a hat is fuggin' ignorant.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 1:28 am
 
the guy who did the book AMERICAN PITBULL just came in and did some fancy photography in Goner today... his new project is all US independent bookstores and record stores. shots looked good, but i couldn't get Louie & Rebecca's pitbull in here in time for some crossover action.

his book should be out next year...
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 4:08 am
 
You want a medal, or a chest to pin it on? Get in line.

Easy there, captain. No medal needed. Just stating the facts. Everybody's childhood was fucked up in one way or another. Just tired of people not taking resposibilty for their (or their dependents) actions. Whether or not I have kids doesn't change anything. Regardless of what you want to think, there is a difference between right or wrong (well at least 90% of the time). This all started as an arguement about a breed of dog. My position is that the owner of a dog is responsible for it's actions. The dog is not a thinking, reasonable being and has no legal rights, therefore no legal liabilities. Shoot the owners, not the dogs.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 4:35 am
 
No, I hear you.

I just think sometimes in life there are gray areas where people could rationalize the day away as to Why Bad Things Happen (and I'm not aiming that at you, either).
The kid up in the NW did have a realatively good upbringing, and still went psycho. There are many cases of this. I don't care how organized, well-trained, nurtured, whatever you are (humans and animals), sometimes shit just snaps. And there's no reason for it. It just happens.

The dog story I alluded to earlier was such an example (in my opinon).

Afriend was watching another friend's house while they were out on the weekend. The friend watching is also a well-seasoned gun user. Guns are in his family and were with him as a youngster (nothing but cops and military in that family). He had been around guns all his life. He knew how to shoot (and do it well), how to handle, and fire all manner of guns. He knew how to clean and secure them, and the importance of that duty.
So anyway, he was cleaning his .45 on the couch. It went off as he was petting the large, black Labrador. Shot the Lab through the top of the snout with a holow-point, and it exited shatered through the lower gum. Poor thing had to wear some snorkel-looking contraption for months (Hank the Dog is fine now).
But the situation was all fucked up.
My point is, no matter how well you train an animal (dog or human), fucked up shit happens. I don't want my kid sitting in the bell-tower with a rifle, so I try to bring him up right. That doesn't discount that things within or outside of my control can't change, and turn ugly.

I don't believe that every Pit Bull will attack; but at the same time, I don't believe the best trained animals won't.

Good talkin' with you carney.
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 5:02 am
 
By the way, in Memphis, we run into alot of that "gray area".

A year or two ago, a grandmother rolled over several kids waiting to be picked up from school.

We're the tops in towns that leave kids unattended in daycare vans and cars (one was a dope-smoking ex-fellon, the other was a Youth Preacher from the suburbs who "forgot" about his baby in the car while at church).
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 5:43 pm
 
he was cleaning his .45 on the couch. It went off as he was petting the large, black Labrador. Shot the Lab through the top of the snout with a holow-point...

WTF? Cleaning a loaded gun is knowing how to handle it? Hollow points!?!? Petting your dog while cleaning your gun is one of the sketchiest things I have ever heard of...
No matter how well my step dad hid the guns in the house my little brother would always find them and the ammunition. Although I would say they are negligent parents I don't think they are much worse than the majority of moms and dads out there (never hit him or anything). But my little brother was a bored, confused kid. After Columbine he and his friends thought the CO school shooters were awesome. All his friends started wearing black trench coats and the FBI was at the house questioning my little brother about his friend that had called in a bomb threat. I never saw him as a killer, but he was emotionally distant at times like most teenagers. And once again he was also very bored in the suburbs like any kid...
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 5:48 pm
 
WTF? Cleaning a loaded gun is knowing how to handle it? Hollow points!?!? Petting your dog while cleaning your gun is one of the sketchiest things I have ever heard of...

I agree, just driving home the point, that he knew better.
Posted: Sep 29, 2005 5:46 pm
 
I said WELL raised

So what is your definition of 'well raised'? This kid wasn't abused enough for you?

Jack raises a good point, it is easy for people who don't have kids (or a dog for that matter) to ruminate about how to do it RIGHT but until you are actually in that situation, you don't know how you are going to act. I admit to doing the same thing before I had a kid. It's kind of annoying when people judge you for things they have no concept of...
Posted: Sep 29, 2005 6:07 pm
 
I said WELL raised

Come on, you know what I mean. The PC police have taken things to far in some regards. Kid's sports are an example. Some leagues don't keep score, because it's not "fair" to have winners and losers. That takes all the sportsmanship out of competition. You're right I don't have kids. I 've had dogs But I was a kid once, and I am surrounded by somebody's spawn everyday. A "liberal" upbringing when it comes to discipline is not such a good thing. A "liberal" upbringing when it somes to art, music. etc is a GREAT thing. I spent some time with my nephews recently and I was appalled by the way the ordered and demanded things from various grown up family members. No please, no thanks, no can I have. It was all give me this, I want that. While the older members of the family were watching a baseball game, they would just walk up and change the channel. No discipline, no manners. It's not the kids fault, it's the parents.

Btw, I in no way wished any harm to your cat. I'm glad it's ok. I would have shot ANY dog that threatened me, my family/friends or my property. If the local animal control people won't step in, I would take care of the matter myself.

Besides, us Carneys have to stick together.
Posted: Sep 29, 2005 7:28 pm
 
I see what you're saying. I just didn't understand where you wanted to draw the line. I agree that discipline has gone by the wayside, these days, and that is unfortunate. I do think there are definitely a lot of kids these days that could use a good ass-whippin'. I am trying to teach my daughter by example, and so is my babysitter. Neither of us coached her to say thank you, but she says thank you of her own accord because the sitter and I both say it to her when she gives us something. It's really sweet she says "Denk oo"... so cute. Now that she's heard me bragging about her saying it, she says it all the time now, but still at appropriate times. I do think manners and discipline are important esp. if you are "subjecting" other people to your kids...

Us Carneys do have to stick together...

I have never owned a dog, but I've been around a lot of 'em. Believe me when I lived in the ghetto, I was glad my roommate had a pit bull. We could walk around any time day or night with that dog and pretty much know we were safe... except maybe from bullets!
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