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Goner Message Board / ???? / Political Discussion: What Is The Purpose of Government?
Posted: Sep 7, 2005 9:03 pm
I was talking with a person the other day who said that it wasn't the job of the government to take care of people, i.e., it could not be blamed for the aftermath of Katrina and the suffering it has caused.

I know it was the ancient Greeks who said government has only one purpose, to improve the lives of citizens. If it doesn't, there is no reason for it, no reason at all.

So, what do you goners think?
Posted: Sep 7, 2005 9:05 pm
maybe we should ask the Sex Pistols about this one...

NOOooooooooooooooo FUUUUuuuTure!
Posted: Sep 7, 2005 9:09 pm
I think if the government is not supposed to take care of people, what are we supposedly doing in Iraq?

I bet they're getting supplies over there faster than the people in NOLA! And we all know that's not saying much...
Posted: Sep 7, 2005 9:13 pm
I know it was the ancient Greeks who said government has only one purpose, to improve the lives of citizens. If it doesn't, there is no reason for it, no reason at all.

My response and my logic: because my people invented this here thing called "democracy" that this country thinks it operates on, I believe that the government DOES in fact have a responsibility to improve our lives and spend our tax dollars responsibily. Whoever said that it wasn't the job of the government to take care of people... why do you think we pay taxes?

The government ABSOLUTELY has to take blame for the lack of response after Katrina. It wasn't like they didn't know it was coming. They were negligent in doing anything at all to mitigate the damage. WHere were the mandatory evacuations? Government at all levels from local to federal fucked that up. They expected people to get out on their own; they expected people who did not have the ability to assess the danger level make up their own mind whether to stay or to go.

Total irresponsibility.

I pay taxes - very high taxes at that, and I want my taxes to go to taking care of people in the United States.... NOT in the Middle East. BY extension, I pay the president's salary - and by my logic, so do all of you. I say, "you're fired." Alas... it doesn't work that way. My vote for Kerry sure didn't count.
Posted: Sep 7, 2005 9:21 pm
This is another interesting side of the story:

[Former Atlanta mayor and UN ambassador Andrew] Young says that what played out in New Orleans this past week is the result of decisions made as long ago as the 1940s when farm work became scarce and many poor black families moved to urban America. “That’s true in almost every major city. We gave farmers money not to grow food and fiber. But we didn’t give any resources to the people who’d been living on those lands. And they crowded into cities without adequate education,” he says.

Many came to depend on city services, public transportation, and government subsidies. So when the government— with all its authority— told them to go the Superdome, they did, if they could.

Add to that an accident of the calendar: Katrina struck New Orleans on the 29th of the month.

“The first of the month in America is a very important date,” says Rep. Maxine Waters (R-Calif.) “Not only do you have pension checks, welfare checks, other kinds of resources basically for poor people, by the 29th you don’t have any money. You’re out.”

Posted: Sep 7, 2005 10:38 pm
It's the 1st of the month so cash yer checks and come up.

Posted: Sep 8, 2005 1:30 am | Edited by: Uptight White
To provide for of all of it's citizens needs, wants, and desires from cradle to grave as well as protect them from every destructive force nature dishes out.

The USA is a representive government, not a pure democracy as you all know.
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 3:01 am | Edited by: red eyed willie
It's job, apparently, is to protect the assets of it's top power brokers and do their bidding. As we all know, those poor people in New Orleans can be replaced in the workforce for the most part by Illegal immigrants.
All that matters is that giant industry is back on track soon enough for Hummer owners not to have to pay such outrageous prices for their wasted gas.

It's job should be three things:
1. To protect it's people (from Enron and Hurricanes as well as Al Queda)
2. To coin their money
3. To represent them to other countries (preferably without bombing first).

Anything beyond this and they're giving you the shaft somehow. Short of this; they aren't doing their job.
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 4:16 am
After free handjobs...

Government - or the state - is supposed to be there to protect its citizens. In theory, we give up some freedom for protection. What that form of protection is - from crime, from fear, from economic insecurity, from nature - is supposed to be determined by the people. However as pointed out, in the US, you get what you pay for and unfortunately that means more money equals more protection and more freedom. Less money equals less protection and less freedom. So somewhere that exchange isn't right. And that more money doesnt mean more money paid out to government by the monied. It certainly doesn't mean that the money a wealthy person pays out is equitable to that which the working poor or middle class pays out. Whether you are talking tax money or freedom taken from us, we have a big example of taxation without representation.

Folks with a vested interest in this scheme want us to believe that this is the best that can be done, that this is the best government around. Bullshit. I was in Paris in the early Spring. More services, more protection, AND more freedom. More of a spectrum of opinion in the press - from far left to far right. Went to see the Bassholes, Jeffrey Evans, & Crash Normal in a shitty bar called Gambetta Club. The place was a fantastic dump. The taps were so corroded people drank beer out of cans. It was 10 pm, the place was full of people chain smoking as Euros will do. There were a couple kids in the place, with their folks. Not teens but 9 or 10. No cops came to close the place down, no health department to condemn the taps, no child protective services to snatch up the kids, no cops outside to harrass the punk on their way out, no alcohal control board their the next day to steal the liquor license because there were minors in the bar. We left and took the Metro, went to transfer and the transit workers were on strike, so we had to walk. Why were they on strike? To preserve the 4 hour work week. I think the French have a much much better handle on this government thing than we do. Freedom fries my ass.
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 4:18 am
make that 4 DAY work week. Four hours would be paradise!
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 5:03 am
Alright, who let Soriano in here?
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 6:43 am
Also the government is there to put the words "under God" in the pledge of allegiance during the 1950's and then pretend that it's always been there. Goddamn terrorists, bring back the red menace!
Posted: Sep 8, 2005 7:17 am
if all else fails, pray to "god".. usually works, right...??? when i was a kid i prayed to god that my flu would go away, 3 days later.. got tonsils removed.. puked blood PLUS they took my adnoids out..! "god" really works! God bless this mess !!
Posted: Sep 10, 2005 10:22 am
I love how the post about taking a shit got 127 responses, while this one a mere 12...

Posted: Sep 10, 2005 10:54 am
Who cares? Having a serious discussion about politics on a garage rock message board is like talking about The Dead Boys on the Democratic Underground forum. It's silly......that's not what this board is for. Not saying the thread shouldn't be here, but don't expect 100 people to jump on it.
Posted: Sep 10, 2005 11:23 am
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 5:50 pm
But Cuba’s own record of human survival during hurricanes provides eloquent testimony that there is another way.

if that other way includes jailing dissidents and gays, and giving lobotomies to most mental patients, include me out.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 8:37 pm
The storm shows us the cumulative effect of years of demonizing the government. Ronald Reagan, and other politicians, always said that government is the problem, not the solution. Citizens should be willing to let the private sector- always more efficient than the government- take care of issues. The marketplace has the solutions for the country.
These insults have compounded and more folks say they are "libertarian," which translates into "I hate the government even more than republicans, but still vote for republicans because libertarians don't win elections."
The weakening of the government has allowed situations like Enron to develop. People forget that the marketplace isn't moral and we need to help poor people.
Strange that the crowd that is scared of evolution really embraces a social darwinism where the poor are thrown to the wolves.
Really, if Dubya's last name was different where would he be without his high-powered friends?
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 9:02 pm
Strange that the crowd that is scared of evolution really embraces a social darwinism where the poor are thrown to the wolves.
I believe in 'em both; Don't have an escape plan for a hurricane? fine:DIE.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 9:10 pm
"and we need to help poor people."
...and whatdaya mean WE, white man?
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 9:52 pm
Right on. I too am tired of those goddamn knee-grows lookin for a handout. Let those junglebunnies drown, that's what I think.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:03 pm
"I too am tired of those goddamn knee-grows lookin for a handout. Let those junglebunnies drown, "
a lotta whites died too, despite what leftists think and hope.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:12 pm
The people who died were poor people. A lot of those people are black. Bush probably feels sad that some poor whites had to bite the bullet as well. A lot of them vote republican.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:22 pm
I think the political discussions on this board are as valid, if not more so, than in a lot of other places. Keep it coming.

Don't even libertarians believe that the proper role of government is to provide those services that individuals are less able to provide for themselves? Like, say, police and fire protection, infrastructure like sewage and electric lines, and large-scale disaster relief?
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:48 pm
"Bush probably feels sad that some poor whites had to bite the bullet as well. A lot of them vote republican."
I'm sure you're just thrilled, though.(say, why dont you make sure that the money from your little benefit record goes only to blacks?)
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:49 pm
Ralph Reed gave his penis to Ann Coulter.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:52 pm
Is that what I did with it? I was so drunk, I honestly don't remember.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 10:59 pm
Say, I'll be at the Caporino benefit on the 15th; why not come on down and I'll debate all of you? 5 bucks, and the cash goes to Paul's family.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 11:20 pm
If I wasn't so far away, and such a poor "luckie duckie", I would. No fair calling people parasites though...
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 11:24 pm
"I'm sure you're just thrilled though". Obviously. Die Whitey, Die! If you knew how to debate it would be well worth the dough. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure you would just hand me some photocopied Libertarian articles. Some girl would break your glasses and you'd cry and no one wants to see it... again. Oh, and don't try to sheild your pathetic views by conecting yourself to this tragedy. Feel free to spew your bullshit but don't connect anyone else to it. I don't think Paul cares for your political grandstanding anymore than the rest of us.
Posted: Sep 12, 2005 11:33 pm
The Unabomber was a Libertarian.

And Ralph Reed doesn't drink.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 12:21 am
I did that night at that brothel that Swaggart recommended. Woo...hoo...wait, nobody from the Coalition reads this do they? Losing my penis must be the Good Lord's punishment for adultery. Doesn't the Good Book say something like, "if your penis causes you to sin, cut it off and give it to Ann Coulter to use..." Maybe Ann uses my little pecker to ward off her adulterous urges. Although, I'm sure that whore has fucked Jeb Bush, Bill Maher, Jim Glassman, Bill Clinton, Jenna Bush, Tom DeLay, Kenneth Lay, Sean Hannity, one of Limbaugh's Oxycotin bottle-tipped cigars, John Ashcroft, and Michelle Malkin. Anyways, it's been good talking to my old Sigma Chi brother, the goob and little sister, Kristen. Take care, Ralphy
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 12:22 am | Edited by: fierydrunk
Fun Quotes:

"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, Sept. 1, 2005

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." –President Bush, to FEMA director Michael Brown, while touring Hurricane-ravaged Mississippi, Sept. 2, 2005

"We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did." –Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) to lobbyists, as quoted in the Wall Street Journal

"I also want to encourage anybody who was affected by Hurricane Corina to make sure their children are in school." –First Lady Laura Bush, twice referring to a "Hurricane Corina" while speaking to children and parents in South Haven, Mississippi, Sept. 8, 2005 (THAT WOULD BE SOUTHAVEN)

"It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground." –President Bush, turning to his aides while surveying Hurricane Katrina flood damage from Air Force One, Aug. 31, 2005

"I understand there are 10,000 people dead. It's terrible. It's tragic. But in a democracy of 300 million people, over years and years and years, these things happen." --GOP strategist Jack Burkman, on MSNBC's "Connected," Sept. 7, 2005

"I'm going to go home and walk my dog and hug my wife, and maybe get a good Mexican meal and a stiff margarita and a full night's sleep." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, on his plans after being relieved from his role managing Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, Sept. 9, 2005
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 12:38 am
Lots more margaritas for Michael Brown. He resigned today.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:43 am
I never post anything political (much) as I don't think about it much as this is a music board BUT i shall say the Bush fucking government is a bunch of fucking crooks. And anyone who goes along with it is a fucking idiot. Government number one priority is to take care of the people it represents if it don't then hand over all power to the people or a government who does.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:45 am
And don't fucking go killing people in other countries full stop. that's their buisiness.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:52 am
bear in mind in England we don't have no constitution. We have 'priviliges'. Not rights. We are given the privilige to do things not the right to do things. And they can be reprieved at any time. God save the fucking queen.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:53 am
I can't even spell the word privilege
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:56 am
which goes to show how the working class are beaten down under the fist of capitalist opptession and are not allowed to even learn how to spell proper
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 1:58 am
ly... even the word 'opression' we can't spell right
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:04 am
Which goes to show brothers, that all organised government is to be dismantled and replaced with anarcho-socialist collectivism discussed in bi-weekly meetings where he...
...or she....
...or she, has the right to forfit his...
...or her....
.......or her vote in order that a democratic process...

Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:06 am
Vote for me. I'll put the 'party' back in political party!
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:07 am
In the end, theyre all a bunch of fucking squares. Fuck em.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:12 am
It's hard to stop, isn't it?

Now I just make fun of pundits and spinners.

No worries, mate. Y'all invented the language, right? Know all the rules, so's you can break 'em, I say.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:31 am
What Is The Purpose of Government?

to scare hell out of your neighbors
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:33 am
once you pop, you can't stop. as they say
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:40 am
don't I know it.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:54 am
Did I mention the fact i'm extremely high as well
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 2:57 am
But yeah, Governments are all overpaid jerkoffs. Give em regular civil service pay and you'll soon get people who actually care and are not in it for the money. I really really need a pizza.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 3:00 am
I need to eat pizza and need to see the Banana Splits. I really want to watch 'Danger Island'.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 3:38 am
"I understand there are 10,000 people dead. It's terrible. It's tragic. But in a democracy of 300 million people, over years and years and years, these things happen." --GOP strategist Jack Burkman, on MSNBC's "Connected," Sept. 7, 2005

what's wrong with these people? Are they gonna pull out Malthus next and say that all these deaths are nature's way of balancing the population?
What does democracy have to do with tragedy and preventable deaths?
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 3:46 am
"nature's way of balancing the population"

Farakhan and several other Taliba-, I mean, conservative Christian groups have already done this. Saying NOLA had it coming with all of their decadence.

Funny thing is, French Quarter was pretty much spared...
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 6:55 am
in the last two weeks, here's what I've learned about the purpose of government:

the purpose of the government is to write me a fucking check.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 9:01 am
Thomas Jefferson:
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free, neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.

As an anarchist-leaning libertarian, I'd say the purpose of government is enforcing the rule of law, and providing for a common defense, and otherwise leaving everyone the hell alone. Contingencies for a natural disaster certainly falls under the responsibility of government. Paving roads, collecting garbage, maintaining sewer systems. Not much else.

Frédéric Bastiat:
The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else.

George Washington:
The only purpose in a Federal government is common economic cause, backed by force.
Posted: Sep 13, 2005 7:07 pm | Edited by: Rachelandthecity
I think the government needs more cowbell.

Posted: Sep 19, 2005 6:07 am
Press is different from media. We have an unprecedented amount of media now. Our government is a democracy and a republic. Aside from ideas of what government is supposed to do, it belies us to inform the gov't of what we want.

That being said, media is the means to communicate. Press is the function of reporting what is going on (and is an understood rule that it is supposed to be objective/no slant). The press, historically, has always tried to "state the facts", but gives into the base of influence. Yellow-dog journalism has been around for a while.

I don't purport to recommending regulation. Press is a necessity. But the media opinion (for a long time) has been that objectivity is boring and does not attract the average audience. But, truth is, the press has always been bound to media.

Media is Newspaper. Media is Radio. Media is Television. And within our lifetimes, Media has become Internet. Many facets of broadcast: free vs. subscription. ABC, CBS, NBC vs. CNN, FOX, MSNBC.... State of the Nation vs. Rush Limbaugh....

Most companies have a direct financial tie to each media type. It is necessary for them to advertise and "bring product". Not all companies advertise. But almost all have or are representented through Political Action Committee (PAC). All talk to media.

Remember that we get our ideas from these media portals. No one in the general public can be anywhere at any given time. Not too many have the phone number to all the folks in Rawanda, North Korea, Bahgdad, Kabul, Tel Aviv, Mexico City, or New Orleans (whose phones are down at the moment) to find out exactly what's going on.

I normally look on the New York Times' reporting as left of center, along with PBS, and NPR. I do listen and watch both of them. I also watch and listen to Fox and Clear Channel AM radio. I do this for balance on issues all over the world, as well as my own research (I'm probably more obsessed about current affairs than most, like some kind of obsessive-compulsive nerd).

I will say, I'm glad for this op-ed piece in the NYT.

Media has PAC teams. They court political influence. As do the Companies, who pay their advertising. Congress and Executive ply for control, as do parties (R and D). All have a PACs for buying power. Press and personalities make milk money from Media. Media gets theirs from advertising dollars.

Agendas are shoved down our throats. All the time.

What our govenrment is supposed to do, according to the constitution, is fulfill the need of constituents as we report our issues. Government responds, based on the choices of majority appointment.
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