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Goner Message Board / ???? / Dueling Black Flags?
Posted: Apr 9, 2013 6:03 pm
I heard there's two out there touring. How can you have a Black Flag without Greg Ginn, just sayin'.
Posted: Apr 9, 2013 6:40 pm
Did anybody see "The Other F Word" doc? They interview Ron Reyes of Black Flack in Vancouver Canada with his kids. He takes them to a record store and he buys the early Black Flag that he sings on and "Dirty Deeds" AC/DC. Shouldn't he be entitled to have the entire discography of Black Flag for free?
Posted: Apr 9, 2013 6:43 pm
I'd pay good money to see Keith front the Rollins Band.
Posted: Apr 9, 2013 9:50 pm
I agree with Jesse. Ginn is Black Flag. The other band is one step above a tribute band. I'd see that Ginn version in a heart beat.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 11:41 am
Wow. Greg has managed to get a single former member of Black Flag on board. One out of how many? That should tell you everything you need to know about a guy who has been dicking over people for decades.

This Keith Morris interview from last summer is a great read, if you haven't read it already.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2012/07/keith_morris_off_black_fla g_interview.php

"But all of us stumbled into somethingówe didn't know what we were creating. But the fact of the matter is, you can't have a band unless you have other people playing in the band; you can't go up on stage with just a guy and his guitar and play those songs. It just doesn't work. There has to be some other people. There has to be a Ron Reyes or a Dez Cadena. There has to be a Billy Stevenson or a Kira Roessler. There has to be Chuck 'The Duke' and there has to be Johnny 'Bob' Goldstein. It doesn't work any other way."

OK, so he got a Ron Reyes, but that still isn't enough, in my mind. I wouldn't pay a cent to see this bullshit Greg Ginn "Black Flag".
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 12:07 pm
And yet you would pay a cent for the Shanana revival tour. You are a fucking hippie. Go Die. All of this shit should be tossed in the garbage.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 12:12 pm
Where did I say I would pay anything to see either of them? I saw Black Flag in the 80s. That was enough.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 12:16 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
sorry, thought you were trumpeting old "need to make buck" johnny bob goldstein

if you didnt see bf in the 80s you wont ever get to see bf, sorry. thems the breaks. both these atrocities deserve to have great white level disasters afixed to them. I hope there are lots of broken hips, and bruised egos at these events. a pox on both their houses.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 12:24 pm
No, I was just quoting Keith from that article, for people who didn't want to bother reading it. You are right about no one ever seeing Black Flag again, but I think that Ginn only has himself to blame for that.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 1:15 pm
You are a fucking hippie. Go Die. All of this shit should be tossed in the garbage.

both these atrocities deserve to have great white level disasters afixed to them. I hope there are lots of broken hips

Jesus, dude. OK, so you're not interested. We get that. Maybe other people might be. Hell, maybe they'll even have a good time, who knows. Apparently that bothers you.

Just because you were lucky enough to be around back in the day, why begrudge others their good time? I just saw the Sonics a couple weeks ago. Is it still 1965? Fuck no. Were they great? Fuck yes.

FYI, I'm not interested in either of these acts though I do like OFF!

I'm just so fucking sick of the cooler-than-thou old punk shit.

Carry on.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 1:24 pm
There seems to be no definitive lineup of Black Flag. The only "rule" seems to be that Ginn is there. I think this one is as valid as the others
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:17 pm
These sorts of reunions can be good or bad. It's all pretty subjective, really. I saw one of those Sonics reunions a few years back and to me, hearing Roslie's howl in person was alone worth the price of admission.

The point I was trying to make with Greg Ginn, was that no matter how his guitar style and sound defined the band (that is not in dispute), he has cheated most of his ex-band mates out of royalties (and this is from the mouths of Keith Morris and Henry Rollins, who I consider to be credible sources). For that reason, I would choose not to support him, even if his new band did turn out to be any good.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:33 pm
its not cooler than thou...its the same reason I hate the worship that lends itself to someone buying a 7" for $3500

if you want to relive the spirit or whatever go find some new bands doing that shit. quit romanticizing the past. which is the exact opposite of what you were criticizing me for
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:39 pm
black flag was always about pushing boundaries and not allowing its audience comfort. so as far as thats concerned the ginn band will probably be closer in proximity to that then the play the hits, brofest that the morris vehicle will be. I can guarantee though that the ginn carnival will suck, as will the shanana revival show
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 3:29 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
here I go as Alienator

its not even like Im against reunions
the Sonics would be fun, hell Negative Approach was great

but theres just something about this that screams ICK!i

I mean are they gonna play Six Pack and TV Party
as straight up rock n roll party anthems? They should get Diamond Dave to be the front dude and be done with it. Dont mind me I have a tumbleweed in my trousers.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 3:39 pm

Ginn has burned too many people...so giving him money is not something I wanna do...plus...How good can it be really?

"25 to 35 dollars to get in" good?
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 3:42 pm
And that FLAG thing is straight up casino circuit punk....

Speaking of....

Posted: Apr 10, 2013 4:50 pm
I don't know that I'd want to see either act; my point was just that Greg Ginn OWNED that sound. No matter your opinion of his reprehensible money scheming, dude invented a prodigious sound and had the guts to flog it. Also, in those days his efforts establishing a record label were unique and set a standard, of such.

Nothing lasts forever but those who come after may frequently try to profit off it. and do.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 5:25 pm
my point was just that Greg Ginn OWNED that sound.

I think that the guitar sound on the latest OFF! album does a pretty close approximation of it and it doesn't really take a guitar wizard to figure it out.

He DID invent the punk to dirthead trajectory though. He showed up at a TSOT show at the Bucc a few years ago when his jam band was in town but split before any of the bands played. I didn't go see his jam band and he didn't see mine.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:16 pm
I understand they have an album coming as well. Any band I like,whether it's last year or 30 years ago, I'll check out whatever they got going on. The guy has been away from it a looong time. Maybe he's feeling it. He's written some GREAT songs. He may have a few more in him. I completely understand not wanting to give money to someone you view as shady. I struggled with that when ordering the last TSOT single, but they could sue his ass if they wanted to. It worked out pretty sweet for the DK guys. I get the feeling that because everyone is old it automatically has to be shit. I'm giving them an open mind. I used to haul hay listening to SST sampler tapes i got for free. I owe him that much.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:22 pm
what was the last album on SST that was worth a shit, Leaving Trains? 90 or 91
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:31 pm
lump in your forehead 1992

anything good after that Im missing out on?
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:31 pm
I struggled with that when ordering the last TSOT single, but they could sue his ass if they wanted to.

Goner has gone shady
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:47 pm
That barb was clearly directed at Sam and his consistently hanging out balls and not Goner sir.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 6:59 pm
Sam and his consistently hanging out balls
That's the kind of shit you pay more money for.
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 7:03 pm
"Yeah, but it's like, "I'm not a homosexual. I like my sex straight. But if I'm gonna get fucked in the ass, I am gonna get fucked in the ass by the big dick that's greased and lubed. I don't wanna get fucked in the ass by some slimy, creepy, skuzzy, sweaty, unshaven guy that's sitting in a garage somewhere peddling these bands." That all of a sudden has become not worth listening to.

Are you referring to anyone in particular?

I would point the finger at SST."
Posted: Apr 10, 2013 8:42 pm
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 12:20 am
Dumb idea. Just a cash grab. Keith really should know better,i thought he transcended this kinda bullshit with OFF! They should just put aside their differences and play Coachella for the big buck$.

"if you want to relive the spirit or whatever go find some new bands doing that shit. quit romanticizing the past."

Comment Of The Year?
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 8:34 am
Donkey's link rules. It took me five minutes to become an expert on the lineup changes and hairstyle choices of the mighty Black Flag
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 11:23 am
no Greg, no hardcore.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 2:51 pm
Wait, I thought we were still talking about ShaNaNa??
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 3:39 pm
no bill ward, no black flag.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 4:02 pm
no police riot, no black flag
no everyone touring in one van, no black flag
no me weighing less than 200 lbs, no black flag
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 4:49 pm
no "beach punks" no Black Flag.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 4:56 pm
I cannot believe if choosing people are going to go with Ginn...check out Ron Reyes 50th birthday show on YouTube. Unlistenable garbage. If I wanted to see some old dudes play BF, I think it would be a no brainer to see Morris, Cadena, Dukowski and Stevenson over Ginn, Reyes and some nobodies.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:02 pm
Have you seen the Misfits and All lately...pretty sure the "no brainer" is staying home and spray painting the walls
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:23 pm
i agree with rich.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:42 pm
Anybody going to see Black Flag, The Misfits and All in 2013 and think they are going to actually see Black Flag, The Misfits and All are delusional...but going to see Morris, Cadena and the gang play some black flag songs sounds like a decent night out to me, but that's just me.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:46 pm | Edited by: leftpeg
Then there's the must see Beatles reunion with Ringo, Peter Tork, Liam Gallagher, Slash and Jimmy Vivino.
Posted: Apr 11, 2013 7:19 pm
Keep your barbs away from my balls!
Posted: Apr 12, 2013 10:42 am | Edited by: Uptight White
It was Ginn's ideology, attitude and distinctive guitar sound that defined Black Flag, and everybody else in the band was a gun for hire. No Ginn, no Black Flag.
Posted: Apr 12, 2013 11:06 am
It'd be cool if the two Black Flags had some drunks vs. straight edgers rivalry going. Drunk Black Flag vs. Sober Black Flag, Beer Black Flag vs. Black Coffee Black Flag.....eh.
Posted: Apr 12, 2013 11:29 am
Let's get Ian MacKaye drunk and talk him into a Teen Idles reunion tour.
Posted: Apr 15, 2013 2:31 pm
rollins band all the way, bro.
Posted: Apr 17, 2013 3:57 pm
Ahhhhh, I saw the trashmen last wknd. I saw DRI last night. I'm going to see Black Flag this June. If most of the band can't qualify for the DENNY'S senior discount, I ain't even going to fucking bother.
Posted: Apr 17, 2013 4:34 pm
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 6:07 pm
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 6:24 pm
Fave comment: "We've got nothing better to do/ than watch Youtube and find more people to sue."
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 11:04 pm
I cannot get enough of this story.
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 11:43 pm
Rollins should sue Ginn for the use of his photo accompanying that article.

And "Deception Among Consumers" would have been a better name for either band, anyway. Trademark that.
Posted: Aug 5, 2013 11:57 pm
How awesome would it be,if this exact situation was happening 20 years from now with Buck Biloxi and the Fucks.
Posted: Aug 6, 2013 12:05 am
Cole, you are on point, motherfucker.
Posted: Aug 6, 2013 8:18 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Didn't they rip the Black Flag logo from some Maoist group anyway? How can they own the rights to that? I'm sure it's all in the semantics and lawyers think it could go either way...but fuck these stupid shits for real.

Black Flag can lick my ass.
Posted: Aug 6, 2013 11:52 am
How awesome would it be,if this exact situation was happening 20 years from now with Buck Biloxi and the Fucks.

I can totally see Joe heading out on the road making millions touring as Fuck Biloxi and the Bucks.
Posted: Aug 6, 2013 12:52 pm
I want a real Black Flag duel. Make each repsective member of the band fight each other to the death. The winners will go on to be Black Flag. Hell the three way death match between Morris/Rollins/Reyes would be worth it alone.
Posted: Aug 7, 2013 7:40 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
No way because the odds would be in that effeminate juicer Henry Rollins favor.

Every lacrosse player I've ever met loved Black Flag...that's not enough for them to hang it up?

I hung out with Greg Ginn not long ago...nice weirdo....fuck Black Flag, they can all eat shit.

They subject their fans to this shit, and their fans, in turn, subject the rest of us to this shit...fuck them.

Angry Samoans were doing this shit ten years ago...who were the real punk pioneers? Who? I ask you? Fuck Black Flag.
Posted: Aug 16, 2013 1:05 pm
Legs McNeil has gotten to the bottom of at least half the story.

Posted: Oct 11, 2013 12:15 pm
Posted: Nov 13, 2013 7:52 pm | Edited by: Tommy Trouble
Posted: Nov 27, 2013 10:24 pm
Posted: Nov 28, 2013 12:41 pm
Well done, Ron.
Posted: Jun 2, 2014 2:40 pm
When this show began with a formless instrumental jam featuring Ginn on theremin, I said "oh shit."

http://thelosangelesbeat.com/2014/06/live-review-black-flag-at-house-o f-blues-sunset-strip/
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