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Goner Message Board / ???? / I am continually amazed...
Posted: Jan 4, 2012 8:02 pm
... at how awful Joan Baez sounds. I absolutely cannot comprehend why she was popular. I'm sure everyone on here agrees with this, but I just had to write it out.
Posted: Jan 4, 2012 9:07 pm
i touched 100 of her records but i don't think i've ever heard of lick of her.

proving once again how little music i've actually heard.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 6:45 am
I like a song she did on the sacco and vanzetti sndtrk but that has more to do with ennio morricone
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 8:15 am
Also in this category: Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 9:05 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
I think she owes much of her success to Bob Dylan, just like Tiny Tim who is much better.

But I actually like some stuff by Joan Baez....
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 9:09 am
by "like" I mean I don't hate her.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 9:29 am
Also in this category: Joni Mitchell

joni mitchell sucks a big one
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 9:34 am
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 10:09 am

Posted: Jan 5, 2012 10:16 am
Well sure, The Kingston Trio they aint, but come on...there is way worse shit.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 11:26 am
Well she wrote Diamonds and Rust, so I forgive her.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 11:27 am
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 11:36 am
sacco and vanzetti

The documentary? Got that on my netflix queue. Pretty good?
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 11:51 am
Yeah, she sucks. I wish they had found someone else to sing for the soundtrack to this. One of my favorite movies, aside from the Baez.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 12:10 pm
Can't access youtube from here, but Joe T., you really need to go there and search "Joan Baez Live Aid." Maniacal laughter and/or cringing will ensue.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 12:50 pm
Blastin ODETTA in the store right now... eats up a Baez in a heartbeat! Hoppe's into folk now! Get him a berea!
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 1:11 pm
How about that Gordon Lightfoot?
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 1:11 pm
Well she wrote Diamonds and Rust, so I forgive her.

Yes! Although I have to be pretty drunk to listen to much Priest (so...not usually a problem).
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 1:22 pm
Don't forget about Jim Croce and this guy:

Posted: Jan 5, 2012 1:24 pm
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 1:40 pm
How about that Gordon Lightfoot?

Don't go there.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 2:57 pm
How about that Gordon Lightfoot?

His early stuff on United Artists is actually really good.

No, really.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 3:17 pm
The documentary? Got that on my netflix queue. Pretty good?

not a documentary...from 1971...Italian

and here's the song

probably can like it cause she's keeps the warbling to a minimum
and yeah diamonds and rust
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 3:25 pm
... at how awful Elvis Costello sounds. I absolutely cannot comprehend why he was/is popular. I'm sure nobody on here agrees with this, but I just had to write it out.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 3:30 pm
i don't understand the black keys' popularity.

1) take a sound/style
2) water it down until it's acceptable to sorority girls
3) catch a break or two
4) reap the benefits

wait, i guess i do understand their popularity.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 3:46 pm
vivian girls are modern day joan baez
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 3:48 pm
Don't forget about Jim Croce and this guy:

My dad was a big fan of both. AND Lightfoot. So there.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 4:49 pm
... at how awful Elvis Costello sounds. I absolutely cannot comprehend why he was/is popular

In defense of Elvis:

I haven't paid much attention since the late 80s, but you have to understand that in 1977, his first album was really a breath of fresh air and sounded like nothing else around. The next three are pretty great, too.

Granted, his voice is a hoarse croak and his clever wordplay can get on your nerves, but in the Upper Peninsula in 1977 it seemed like a fucking revolution.

The Saturday Night Live appearance was a big moment, too, in the way that broadcast television used to have "big moments" back then.

The first LP also has some great songs, namely:

The Angels Wanna Wear My Red Shoes
Mystery Dance
I'm Not Angry
Watching the Detectives

AND he wrote a song for George Jones and sang it with him. How cool is that?

He's also great live even if you haven't paid attention in a couple decades, and the Attractions are one of the all-time great backing bands (though I did once see Pete Thomas COMPLETELY lose the beat - to the point where they had to start a new song...)

And yes, I know he has an annoying audience now but it wasn't always like that. You've gotta separate the music from the current context sometimes or you end up hating everything...

Also, I like the Black Keys. So there.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 5:33 pm
Joni Mitchell at least did moderately weird things on the guitar and her voice isn't nearly as annoying as Joan Baez. Joni's got some good jams.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 10:42 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
Yeah, Joni Mitchell used cool alternate tunings. I agree.

My dad was a big fan of both. AND Lightfoot. So there. You got me, I was spouting off my Dad's tastes also, macho pop folk, it aint that bad.

And as far as people liking crap music, I think much like why we have wars, people are afraid of utopia.

I mean in a perfect world where an intelligent God exists, it's the authentic originators who make it big, and not based on superficial bullshit either, but because the stupid masses somehow get it on it's own terms, they would love music enough to understand when something is ground breaking or a new twist on an old theme. If there's one thing we can learn from music today, it's that there aint no intelligent God.

I like the black keys more than allot of shit, but no I don't listen to it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I'd recommend Junior Kimbrough or some of the other folks they rip off, but I'll be damned if they don't beat the shit out of most the adult rock crap they play on NPR....by bullshit NPR standards they're great! Elvis Costello is a god on NPR! Allot of crap music has some redeeming qualities. Even if a Black Keys fan gets into Junior Kimbrough, it doesn't mean they understand any greater truth or are any smarter for it. What sounds like music to humans is purely a matter of culture, look up what they think ancient greek music sounded like, or some atonal african tribal music or traditional asian music, it's offensive to fragile western ears...turning people on to music is like convincing the emperor to walk around naked because you have magic thread....music is intangible like that, and it is possible to build something out of nothing in that regard as long as you have a common vision with other people. Mainstream music critics like Priests and deacons keep feeding us a line of bullshit that no one can believe in anymore. We wait around for the "new sound" like Waiting for Godot, and every once in awhile some svengali comes along to convince us that they have a lead, usually it's just an upper class rehash of some "real folk music." Thats what The Stones, Elvis Presley, and Nirvana were.

Sorry to drone on like this, but my degree is in post modern humanities, in other words what I studied is why people like stupid shit. Allot of what becomes widely accepted as "good music" has to do with socio-economic class struggles, it's another good example of how dumb and unthinking the masses are. But musicians really shouldn't concern themselves with that, it's not a matter of being considered good, but continuing a tradition and sound you learned over the course of your life, you put your own stink on it, but just do what sounds interesting and fresh to you, if people like you that's great, it's probably for none of the reasons you intend. You are just participating in human culture, and there is nothing wrong with dying a common, unsuccessful, regular joe, in fact you just might be the seed that grows into a giving tree. The idea that you have to work hard and become something big and significant is a bullshit protestant morality play. Just do what you enjoy...a musicians job isn't to entertain and gain acceptance from the rich, their job is to represent who they and their people are in song and dance, or to just be there as a fan is significant, testify, dance. It gives dignity and a sense of understanding to other regular folks on a base level and it's a release from the brutality of the world, it helps you be brave in times of crisis. It doesn't have to be pretty to the rich puritan ears. Fuck them, they have no tastes of their own, it's all customs, niceties and politeness in public, and behind closed doors they instigate wars to send the young off to die and convenient scape goats to the gas chambers.

This may be why I shouldn't post on here from my laptop lying in bed, but who cares? Thank you and goodnite.
Posted: Jan 5, 2012 11:28 pm
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 5:38 am
tigerblinds you are the joan baez of message board posters
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 9:37 am
Joni Mitchell at least did moderately weird things on the guitar and her voice isn't nearly as annoying as Joan Baez

im not a fan of either
but joan baez clearly had a stronger and superior voice
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 10:52 am
I think she owes much of her success to Bob Dylan

Dylan rode her coattails right to the top. Granted, he probably would have gotten there anyway, but in the beginning she was his biggest (and at times only) advocate and the launching pad for his career. She is the one who inspired Dylan to use his songs as a force of social change. Dylan would later challenge Lennon to do the same... not a bad legacy. Not to mention that she is the ONLY person ever able to successfully harmonize with Dylan (see Johnny Cash).

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mtzNFXbqZAg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Also, she was a stone-cold babe with brains to match.
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 11:20 am
those two look like they might have experimented with the marihuana.
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 11:20 am
Also, she was a stone-cold babe

it's not possible we're talking about the same Joan Baez
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 11:22 am
she is so freaking annoying in Eat The Document
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 11:37 am
Phil Ochs was the only folksinger with any integrity, originality and principles.

And he hung himself.
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 1:39 pm
"only" is a little severe

Richard Farina had a pretty credible career, plus he married the hot Baez sister.
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 3:01 pm
agree with...how awful Elvis Costello sounds.

He wears glasses w/ no glass in them. --Paul Cook

Posted: Jan 6, 2012 3:16 pm
"Music critics like Elvis Costello, because they look like him"--David Lee Roth
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 4:36 pm
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 4:58 pm
Posted: Jan 6, 2012 5:00 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 8:39 am
tigerblinds you are the joan baez of message board posters

Absolutely, that post was totally calculated. I admit it.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 8:44 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Now this thread feels complete:

Posted: Jan 9, 2012 8:45 am
I'd tap that

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HYCY8TbkKFw/SiPBT107KII/AAAAAAAAAe8/Zz--AZ1f Dq8/s400/Joan%2BBaez.jpg

It's been my experience that most guys would "tap" a lot of shit. I don't think "I'd tap that" is equal to "stone-cold fox."
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 8:55 am
Joan Baez was good at what she did. She can't help her "genteel" folksinging background anymore than an old blues singer can help singing raspy/flat. She sings in a style that's been way out of date in folk/pop music circles for years. Same with Roger Whitaker. That's the way they came up, and if they've decided to stick to it, then good for them.

They make a living out of playing music. What about you?
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:07 am
I always kinda liked some of Gordon Lightfoot's songs ("Carefree Highway", "Rainy Day People", "I'm Not Sayin'" {done by pre-VU Nico} and others). I understand he's not the most pleasant guy in person though.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:09 am
I'm not sure Roger Whitaker was ever all that "hip"...some people make a career out of being square like Elvis Costello.

I think people think it's cool to hate folk music because of Animal House...but that's alright, I think it's cool to hate on bands who think The Blues Brothers were original.

It's a constant reminder that we're on the verge of self-annihilation...or rather the Eve of Destruction...ha ha ha.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:12 am
And Joni Mitchell's written so many good songs. "Urge For Going", "Born To Take The Highway", "Clouds", the whole COURT AND SPARK, & BLUE albums. Nazareth covered "This Flight Tonight" and Prince had covered "Case Of You" live many times.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:13 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
I understand he's not the most pleasant guy in person though.

Oh man, once John Denver's career began to wane he became the most bitter asshole of all time. He was notorious for cussing out indentured servants and spitting on his fans and shit in fits of drunken rage...it's actualy realy sad how that could happen, much like Bob Dylans current fashion sense:

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/la/celebrity_wine_300508/bob_dylan_47 341.jpg
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:17 am
I like Joni Mitchell:

That's right...I like Led Zeppelin.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:17 am
I don't think Roger Whittaker set out to be square, or hip or whatever. He is what he is. I like "The Last Farewell". And he covered "Dirty Old Town" before The Pogues had a hit with it.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:22 am
I remember during the late 70s "fuel shortage" when it was reported that John Denver was hoarding gasoline (he'd had two large tanks installed on his property). I think he'd later apologized for that.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:24 am
I still like the Blues Brothers first live LP because they'd always say who the original artist was before they played the song. Then I'd go seek the original tune out.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:26 am
I don't know the Black Keys at all. I still keep getting them confused with Black Lips.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:30 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Not to mention half of Thunders set was usually folk music:

Some of my favorite shit.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:41 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Blues Brothers are fine...I have friends who will write songs and tell me how they stole parts from the Blues Brothers and I'll listen to it and be like "uh that's Elmore James, don't tell anyone you got that from the Blues Brothers!"

But I don't know...alot of people don't seem to realize that there was nothing original about The Blues Brothers. Besides, John Belushi liked folk music.

Oh yeah, and John Denver was hoarding gas because he flew planes which is how he eventually died...but that's true...
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 9:54 am
Blues Brothers were a just for fun tribute band that got too huge. But I didn't know who Junior Wells, Cripple Clarence Lofton or Delbert McClinton were before I heard that record.

And just for the record, I STILL prefer Blondie's version of "Hanging On The Telephone" to the original by the Nerves. The Nerves wrote and recorded a cool song, but Blondie's version just explodes (thanks to the guitar break, Debby's vocal, and CLEM BURKE! Ka-boom!).
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:01 am
i think i actually prefer blondie's the tide is high over the paragons version, and that's coming from a reggae nut!
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:01 am
I think the scene where Belushi smashed that guys guitar, is because folk music was a huge trend at that time, the Kingston Trio were fucking huge and that's a little before the time when Dylan got booed off stage for going electric, because that's the scene that he and Baez came up in. Anyway the garage bands came along with their loud and stupid music and smashed the folk scene to hell, The Beatles and the English Invasion were the last nail in the coffin, eventhough there was a heavy folk influence in their music as well as later bands like The Byrds.

It wasn't so much that folk music died as much as the bereat wearing folk musician just became a horrible cliche.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:02 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
i think i actually prefer blondie's the tide is high over the paragons version, and that's coming from a reggae nut!

Neither can touch URoy toasting over the Paragons version!

But Joe, you probbably only heard the 1980 Paragons version, they originally did it in the 60's...that shit is the shit.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:06 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
URoy also later toasted over the 1980's version...no where near as good.

I heard URoy recordings saved alot of that old Jamaican music, because they would actually melt records down again and add saw dust to make more records, I think Greg O brought that to my attention once...kind of fucked up but interesting.
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:11 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Posted: Jan 9, 2012 10:37 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
People are just stupid for the most part, they need simple signifiers to decide whether something is cool.

I had a two-piece drum and guitar garage blues band with my xgirlfriend when The White Stripes and Black Keys were peaking...and everyone knows how I felt about those bands....no one knew that it had already been a common band setup for two decades before they got popular....Bantam Rooster had broken up and alot of the Childish influenced bands were turning away from blues music....then people also never got it because we didn't sound like them. We were grouped in with the countless other 2-piece bands around of all variety.

It didn't bother me, do what you know. That band was doomed and we knew it. It was fated to be obscure from the beginning, but that sort of what appealed to us.

I've always been a social drop out and probbably always will be. But American people have a real hard time seeing outside of their little near sighted mental prisms. It's why they're so easily manipulated and placated. We actually got at least 5 fan emails from Germany, they all said how they couldn't understand it at first and then had a break threw. That wasn't bad for a band that only played one show...and that's basically what I was going for...so I consider that band to have been a success. According to garage tradition, germans have pretty good taste.
Posted: Jan 23, 2012 9:25 am
I heard this song this weekend that sounded remarkably similar to Reigning Sound...I was surprised to find out it was The Black Keys. I guess I kind of like them in how good they ape some cool shit.

Would I ever pay to see them? Fuck no.
Posted: Jan 24, 2012 2:52 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
...then again maybe Greg O engineered it for them. Which would definately give them some needed "interesting points."
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