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Goner Message Board / ???? / Annual income at least $172,500...
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 12:28 pm
 
listed as a qualifier for an available sublet in nyc. can you believe that? fuckers.

the price of housing--rentals--in new york is astounding.
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 12:52 pm
 
just when I thought Toronto had gone over the top, New York raises the bar
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 12:58 pm
 
toronto rents are as high as nyc! i was floored by that knowledge.
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 2:23 pm
 
wow, i'm hoping my beau and i combined will annually make 72K one day which is pretty doubtful. fuck new york (sorry).
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 2:46 pm
 
If you make that kind of scratch, couldn't you just buy a house?
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 4:33 pm
 
It's almost as bad out here (San Jose, CA)...and I'm not in a great city like NYC!!

Good article from The Nation (2/14/11 issue) on the current extreme income inequality in NYC:

Boom Town and Bust City, A Tale of Two New Yorks by Lizzy Ratner

Not free on the internet yet but well worth reading.
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 4:43 pm | Edited by: The Driver
 
- a simple Google search for Toronto Real Estate statistics turned up the following:

The average selling price for January 2011 sales was $427,037, representing an increase of over four per cent compared to the average of $409,058 reported in January 2010.

In January, the median price was $360,000, from the $350,000 recorded during January of 2010.
Posted: Feb 28, 2011 11:05 pm
 
Toronto is a massive real estate bubble ready to burst. It's like So Cal in '05.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/01/housing-bubble-comp arison-us-uk-canada.html
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 1:17 am
 
So glad i moved!!
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 3:40 am
 
Toronto is a massive real estate bubble ready to burst. It's like So Cal in '05.

That's certainly my untrained/casual observation. I feel like the only people that will tell you otherwise are those with a vested interest. Thanks for the charts.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 8:10 am
 
All you suckers who don't live in MEmphis are suckers!

LAKE FRONT!!!
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 8:24 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
wow Scott that's my dream vacation home!

You all should move to Louisville, I can show you the cheap falafel joints, cheap marijuana. All of the townies compete for juke box superiority at their favorite bars (and fail miserably I might ad)....when your band plays shows you have the entire joint to yourself, talk about good sets for a youtube shoot.

It's especially ideal for me since my parents are my landlords and therefore all of my neighbors kind of have to kiss my ass. I have a guest bedroom also. Screw a bunch of NYC bullshit....fuckin suckers.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 10:25 am
 
Vancouver is horrible... the average selling price (includes condos, townhomes and single-family dwellings) was $699,000 last year! It was under $300K ten years ago. The average crappy one bedroom condo in the cheaper (east) part of town is almost $350K.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 10:36 am
 
buying prices are horrendous and way over inflated. STILL, 3 years after the initial credit default debacle. it's insane.

nothing is of its value.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 11:44 am
 
$1,000 per bedroom per month here in Baghdad by the Bay.
tough to find a studio under $1K.

Property is theft! Who died and made landlords king anyway? Jesus?
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 12:23 pm
 
Property is theft!

There is something unsavory about profiting from shelter.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 12:38 pm
 
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 3:03 pm
 
All you suckers who don't live in MEmphis are suckers!

LAKE FRONT!!!


House probably gets flooded every other year.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 3:20 pm
 
Flooded every night with crack and C.H.U.D.s.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 3:38 pm
 
I'm trying to move to New Orleans in Fall but even that shit is fucking expensive for the most part. I'm living for $450/month all included right now in Philly. I'm thinking about forgetting the plans and moving to Jackson or Memphis or even Chicago instead...at some point, it's just not worth it. I often find that I don't use the "cultural amenities" when they're right at my doorstep, anyway.
Posted: Mar 1, 2011 4:29 pm
 
Yeah, rent is New Orleans is fucking dumb. Not NYC dumb, but still, out of hand.
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 8:10 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Property is theft!

There is something unsavory about profiting from shelter



Don't start with this anarcho bullshit...that's why my last band broke up. First you're going to hate me for stating that all possessions are not debt...and then you're going to disown me for paying women to take their clothes off....loosen up man.
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 9:57 am
 
too much information, dude.
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 10:38 am
 
Here it is:

Boom Town and Bust City: A Tale of Two New Yorks



Good article. Here's some supplimental reading that's a little off topic.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/four-time-bombs-that-will-blow-up-wal l-street-2011-03-01
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 11:10 am
 
too much information, dude

The pays pretty good.
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 11:22 am | Edited by: roche
 
Vancouver is only behind Sydney & Hong Kong as the most SEVERELY UNAFFORDABLE market internationally!

New York is #15 on that list ...
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 12:04 pm
 
Here's some supplimental reading that's a little off topic

Wow. I admit I didn't expect to see the words capitalism and revolution in the same article on a WSJ site.
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 12:26 pm
 
We could have put Warren Buffet and his wife in jail when the feds tried to bust up his paedophilia and child prostitution ring....unfortunately it'll never happen.

Posted: Mar 2, 2011 12:29 pm
 
Q) Why did the rich guy get fat?
A) He patronized the Warren Buffet
Posted: Mar 2, 2011 12:41 pm
 
It was called The Franklin Cover-up. Warren Buffett's close associate was busted...but Buffett got away scot free. This T.V. show doesn't mention Buffett...but it's a well known fact to folks who followed the case, that he was the ringleader.

Posted: Mar 2, 2011 1:18 pm
 
I admit I didn't expect to see the words capitalism and revolution in the same article on a WSJ site.


I was caught off-guard too.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 1:00 am
 
Technically, almost every place in the US but Detroit is a rip off. Detroit is marked to market. The main reason for the national housing surplus is because instead of indexing property at sale prices, almost everybody is holding out for suckers who'll match the comp price payed by another sucker a few days/weeks/months earlier.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 8:04 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Well everyone is in debt, and everyone wants the most from their "investment"...Detroit is struggling so bad, they can barely give away the realestate. Out here in the midwest we're all buckled down and still struggling. Fortunately the stupid fucking "new money" fundamentalist christians never stopped making kids (just as stupid as them.) They keep building houses and buying houses, even in this economy. Sure they can't afford to go to McDonalds on Friday night, but that's their problem. They're livin the dream.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 8:10 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
My sister has an MA in business and took advantage of the Obama tax breaks. I lived with her for a year, and then she tried to jack my rent too high and I bolted. Now she has a new roommate and works 3 jobs to pay her mortgage. In the long run it was a good investment, good house in an established neighborhood. Most folks my age are in the same predicament. I couldn't imagine trying to pull some shit like that on the east coast where the price of living is so shitty.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 8:48 am
 
Detroit is struggling so bad, they can barely give away the realestate.

Detroit's complicated. The banks are still pulling some hoodoo, but from the other direction. At the peak, they were encouraging over-valuation, and handing mortgages out to anyone that could sign their name. I've heard of several recent instances where folks were pre-approved for a decent amount, let's say 60G and then found a nice house for 40. But the bank's inspector comes up with an appraisal of 20 (based on figures that include foreclosed/abandoned homes). End of sale.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 9:04 am
 
I don't see the allure of owning a house. It seems like a pain in the ass. Real Estate is overpriced to begin with given America's employment situation. Plus, what if your neighbors are a bunch of assholes?
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 10:48 am
 
then you rent it out to someone and move
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 12:52 pm
 
I don't see the allure of owning a house. It seems like a pain in the ass. Real Estate is overpriced to begin with given America's employment situation. Plus, what if your neighbors are a bunch of assholes?

That was Harvey Pekar's philosophy for most of his life. I sort of have to agree with you. Something breaks the damn landlord has to fix it. But then again you're not building any equity, and you're just making house payments for your landlord, with nothing to show for it in the end. These are the arguments my family makes. I blow my money quicker than I can make it. I'll never be in any shape to buy a house.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 2:46 pm
 
I have no problems saving money. In fact, if I wanted to, I could make a decent down payment on a house, but fuck it. I don't want to wind up stuck living next to some douche who calls the cops on me everytime I get a few in me and start cranking Celtic Frost.

then you rent it out to someone and move
Yeah right. With my luck my boarders would pull a Warren Buffett and start shooting kiddie porn there behind my back. Then I'd wind up being a person of interest, or some dumb shit like that. Or elseMaybe a fucking meth lab that would blow up the entire neighborhood.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 3:57 pm
 
I don't see the allure of owning a house. It seems like a pain in the ass. Real Estate is overpriced to begin with....

yup. i've owned and rented. the only way i would own again is if the place was too kick-ass to pass up. and by kick-ass, i mean the house itself, the price & the location.

and people who buy houses for "only" X amount of money always seem to leave out all the interest they're paying on top of it, the home repairs & upgrades, the money you feel you *have* to spend buying new shit, etc, etc.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 4:23 pm
 
Downside to renting (in a building) is your landlord determines your neighbors.

We lost our old lady neighbor downstairs to some 21 year old girls who probably have never lived outside of their parents' suburban mini-mansion before, will have no clue as to city living.

I'm sick of hearing "owning your own home" is the "American Dream". it's a get-rich scheme for bankers & real estate agents.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 5:06 pm
 
I'm sick of hearing "owning your own home" is the "American Dream". it's a get-rich scheme for bankers & real estate agents.

Yeah, this whole house as equity vs. a roof over your head is a fairly recent uh scam. Now there are cities where real estate is so over-valued that renting is the sane choice (there's a formula for this, but I can't be bothered to look it up). Don't even get me started on the damage to communities that predatory real estate agents have done.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 5:09 pm
 
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 6:08 pm
 
Me and Hethurr just bought a house. Got sick of prick landlords, bitch neighbors, never getting shit fixed in any reasonable amount of time, and throwing money away for nothing. Plus houses are CHEAP in Memphis.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 7:28 pm | Edited by: Stephanie
 
predatory real estate agents

i think it's more the lenders actually; usually agents are out of that business and just want to hear if their customers have gotten the actual loan so can proceed to close. but yeah, total bullshit.

i know some wells fargo loan officers (baltimore for sure and i think ohio where i read..city of Baltimore sued WF!) came forward and said they were told to target low-income areas in order to hand out sub-prime loans ("ghetto loans") knowing once the rate raised people were screwed! i know consumers are partly at fault, but when people are trying to sell them on this shit...be pretty nice to hear you can buy a house! just so beyond unethical.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 7:34 pm | Edited by: Stephanie
 
also, not implying that i thnk there aren't unethical real estate agents!! mmmm. duh, haha.
Posted: Mar 3, 2011 9:26 pm
 
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 7:43 am
 
then you rent it out to someone and move
Yeah right. With my luck my boarders would pull a Warren Buffett and start shooting kiddie porn there behind my back. Then I'd wind up being a person of interest, or some dumb shit like that. Or elseMaybe a fucking meth lab that would blow up the entire neighborhood



Their is mandatory insurance to protect you in such instances.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:21 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
My folks could never make any investments when I was growing up, because we were so nom
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:29 am
 

Their is mandatory insurance to protect you in such instances.



Well whatever. Having to be somebody's alpha-male prick landlord isn't my calling in life. Too much responsibility and too many restrictions.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:33 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
WTF, I posted like 4 paragraphs and then my network slowed down and they got deleted.

Anyway, my family was so nomadic so they invested in an aparment complex and used the rent to pay the mortgage....they never made any money on it until it got paid off in recent years.

I mowed the lawn every summer since I was 18 and living here regularly, but realy since I was 12. In the mid to late 90's, the government was doing so shifty city planning, and the neighborhood basically turned into the new ghetto. Now it's mostly working class folks again, and I live there. But we had all kinds of trouble with guns, meth, and fires.

Realestate is only a realy good investment if you're using extra cash to purchase it and make payments, and can sit on the property when times are bad. The industry has the same flaws as every other industry in the U.S. which is what Stephanie is talking about, predatory lenders. And our corporate government is on the side of the corporations...not the people. I don't know why we Americans like to hold the consumer responcible when they buy the brooklyn bridge....the guy who should go to jail is the crook who sold it to them. Why is it somehow justifiable to sell a load of crap in the name of American capitalism? Lawyers have built and industry out of arguing over it, and protecting the bad guys.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:38 am
 
What the fuck.?..who's fucking with the editing option on this webpage? You all know I can't spell or form complete words on my first try.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 11:55 am
 
The real estate topic is a tender subject for me ... I shall rant:

I owned a place from '97-'01 in a neighbourhood I hated. I was finally fed up w/ the place & wanted to get out without giving a shit about my 'profit margin' & wound up selling it for exactly what I owed the bank ... in hindsight, I should have got right back into the market within that year, but the freedom tasted too good. I slowly watched all these properties double in value over the next couple years & thought it was insanity ... as place that even has the original 15 y/o carpeting & appliances 'doubling' in price?!? As time went on, I saw the prices on the same places quadruple+ & I simply bowed out since I didn't see the value & found it hard to believe these prices were sustainable (keep in mind, I'm in Vancouver - which still hasn't (yet) seen the effects of the housing crisis that the US/rest of Canada & the world has) ...

Kept hearing the same old spiel from family, 'experts', etc about how I should still take the plunge cuz 'real estate only goes up!' ... I have friends (NEVER interested in real estate before, esp back when it was somewhat afforable) that drank the kool-aid & are now hugely underwater in over-priced mortgages they would have never considered purchasing before - I love hearing them say "ah ... homeownership feels so good!" when in reality, they've just taken on a shitload of debt & are pretty much skimming by. The news is inudated with stories about people in the US that have used their homes as ATM's, accumulated insane amounts of debt & now families are homeless, yet so many people here are doing that exact same thing! No lessons learned ... zero.

"I knew it was time to get out of the market when I started receiving stock tips from the shoe-shine boy" - Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr.

Meanwhile, bankers & other 'professionals' I know have been doing the same thing as me ... figure out what your mortage would cost on the property you want, pay your rent/bills & sock away the difference in savings/investments. Now I've got a nice nest-egg built up & I'm seriously thinking twice if real estate is even the place to park it, even if prices correct around here. Property ownership is nice, no doubt about it - but I think I would rather plunk it down on some waterfront recreational property than some shoebox in the city or cookie-cutter pad in the suburbs.

Just my two pesos.

Vancouver Real Estate Roller Coaster:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2757699799528285056#

Crack-Shack or Mansion?
http://www.crackshackormansion.com/
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 11:58 am
 
Owning vs renting comes down to one thing for me: retirement. My house will be paid for and the the equity will supplement my other means of income. I am not counting on social security, it will be gone by the time I am 67 ( a mere 20 years). My house payment are about 2/3 of what it would cost to rent a comparable house. Interest rates are at an historic low, around 4% for fixed rate 30 years. I am fortunate, we bought our house very cheaply and the housing market in austin is out of control right now. I would rather feather my own nest than a landlord's.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 12:00 pm
 
Sorry ... THIS is the Vancouver Roller Coaster ...
http://vimeo.com/11211712
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 12:30 pm
 
I am not counting on social security, it will be gone by the time I am 67 ( a mere 20 years).

The problems with Social Security are actually not that difficult to fix, though you'd never know it from what passes for news these days. If it's "gone," it will be because right-wing ideologues deliberately kill it. Read Paul Krugman. Demand-side Keynesian economics saved this country after the Depression but everyone seems to forget that now.

Most of our budget problems stem from the Wall Street casino culture, two unnecessary wars, and the Bush tax cuts.

Social Security is one of the most effective government programs in the history of this nation. But no, we can't admit that, because that would force us to admit that "socialism" sometimes works.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 1:00 pm
 
who would want security?
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 1:29 pm
 
people who don't have trust funds, i would say.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 1:52 pm
 
It's like everything in the U.S. today, you look at the facts and consider the logistics and who's benefiting and it makes you so pissed you could spit....folks are being bleed dry, while walking corpses like Dick Cheney are getting blood tranfusions and mechanical apparatuses to keep their hearts beating. They should have been hung Saddam Hussein style a long time ago.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 2:02 pm
 
i hate everything in the world right now.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 2:52 pm
 
Not me. I'm winning! All these bi-polar schmucks. I'm bi-winning.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 7:29 pm
 
Snorting briefcase after briefcase of cocaine and beating twenty-something porno-sluts in your West Hollywood mansion would make anybody feel like a winner.
Posted: Mar 4, 2011 8:14 pm
 
i hate everything in the world right now.
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 5:25 am | Edited by: SSSSSSS
 
Flooded every night with crack and C.H.U.D.s.

CHUDs in Memphis? seems like they'd drown!

crack on the other hand; I'm down!
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 5:33 am | Edited by: SSSSSSS
 
Roll Bounce

oops, wrong thread.
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 3:01 pm
 
i hate everything in the world right now.



I can occasionally find a pony in the horseshit, but it is getting harder.

The only way most houses could be worth anywhere near the asking price would be by burning half of them down. Even I, who has never had an interest in owning, thought there was going to be a huge glut of them back six, seven, eight years ago when everywhere you'd look there would be new construction and there value would increase by double digits year after year. .
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 3:22 pm
 
Somebody needs to put this in a time capsule so future historians can understand the aughts homebuyer mindset:

Posted: Mar 5, 2011 3:32 pm
 
Schooley - that's gold - it's all there, in one neat little package
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 5:48 pm
 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/28/134033237/what-a-coin-toss-h as-to-do-with-the-housing-market

Listen/Read. It's incredible how stupid people are when it comes to risk/loss.

When I first heard this about the coin toss... I was hungover/stoned and driving and distracted and I thought, damn, ppl don't know shit about math.
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 6:29 pm | Edited by: Thee Gilded Chimera
 
Nevermind NPR's prehistoric amigdala expanation for it.I don't think that ppl are naturally dumb.

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm

I agree with John Taylor Gatto 100 percent. I constantly got into fights with teachers from kindergarten on. Public schools are only there to destroy ppl's mojo. Listen to Anarchy in the U.K.
Posted: Mar 5, 2011 7:03 pm
 
The new dumbness is particularly deadly to middle- and upper-middle-class kids already made shallow by multiple pressures to conform imposed by the outside world on their usually lightly rooted parents. When they come of age, they are certain they must know something because their degrees and licenses say they do. They remain so convinced until an unexpectedly brutal divorce, a corporate downsizing in midlife, or panic attacks of meaninglessness upset the precarious balance of their incomplete humanity, their stillborn adult lives
Posted: Mar 7, 2011 7:31 am
 
Snorting briefcase after briefcase of cocaine and beating twenty-something porno-sluts in your West Hollywood mansion would make anybody feel like a winner.

...and I got tigerblood cuz I'm tigerblinds! And I snort suitcases full of briefcaseses of cocaine.

Seriously, the only thing that can save us now is abortion.
Posted: Mar 7, 2011 7:57 am
 
Listen to Anarchy in the U.K.

Correction: Listen to God Save the Queen.
Posted: Mar 7, 2011 12:03 pm
 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/28/134033237/what-a-coin-to ss-h as-to-do-with-the-housing-market

Listen/Read. It's incredible how stupid people are when it comes to risk/loss.

When I first heard this about the coin toss... I was hungover/stoned and driving and distracted and I thought, damn, ppl don't know shit about math.


Couple that news with this:

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/06/irrational-markets-people- reject-free-money-out-of-anger.ars
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