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Goner Message Board / ???? / Giffords shooting..
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Posted: Jan 8, 2011 8:51 pm
 
Handn't seen anyone here talking about this yet....fucking ridiculous..
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona
Posted: Jan 8, 2011 9:38 pm
 
"Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."
Posted: Jan 8, 2011 9:44 pm | Edited by: arman
 
along with being a "three name killer" his favorite book list reads like he borrowed them from the library of mark david chapman or john hinkley

Interests:My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Movies:(*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
Music:Pass me the strings!
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 10:10 am
 
wow that's good insight from champ.

the situation had me thinking about MLK, only feeling less of a connection to what the congresswoman's platform is.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 12:18 pm
 
like he borrowed them from the library of mark david chapman or john hinkley
I'm guessing Catcher in the Rye just slipped his mind....and where does the 9 year old girl fit in? Was that accepted collateral damage in his mind, for basking in the glow of his righteousness?
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 12:33 pm | Edited by: bazooka joe
 
when's mark beef gonna talk about this here? anyone else from tucson on here?
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 12:38 pm
 
absolutely ridiculous shit... the whole teabagger agenda (and though the connections at this time are tenuous, the sympathies are aligned ) is so preposterously anti-intellectual and misinformed at every angle, i just don't know where to begin.

i'm curious who this mystery figure is, some white dude in his 50's that they think figures into this act and who was caught on a security cam. it will be morbidly interesting to see where the tentacles lead.

scary times.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 1:21 pm
 
some white dude in his 50's that they think figures into this act

jared's "handler"...
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 1:36 pm
 
when's mark beef gonna talk about this here? anyone else from tucson on here?

I'm in Tucson.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 2:39 pm
 
sorry blowzukie

I was out fucking around for the past couple days, schlepping suitcases for Pavarotti

anybody who thinks Palin,Beck,etc is to blame for this kid's actions should also be railing against Taxi Driver and Catcher in the Rye...I'll agree Palin and Beck are fuckwits who contribute to the rise of intolerance and extremism but go watch that kids youtube vids and tell me he ain't certifiable. And I would be a huge hypocrite if I thought that fuckwits speech should be curtailed, but JFA, The Crucifucks, and Suicidal Tendencies should be not only free to roam the streets, but are pretty dang swell to boot

I watched ladies who were possible grandmothers cry and then adults get in fist fights at a bar, then the bartender's tits popped out of her shirt
all while being told she was dead, no she weren't, yes she was, no she wasn't, yes'n she were, nope uh uh

flags at half mast for our
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 2:40 pm
 
collective dumbing down and politicizing of every good goddamn thing
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 3:28 pm
 
anybody who thinks Palin,Beck,etc is to blame

oh come on mark, that's like saying the brown shirts "misinterpreted" the idea behind kristallnacht
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 3:34 pm
 
if the shooter had been a Tea Party member or in a position of power in that org I'd grant you that

that he was a deranged individual with out there ideas that would not ingratiate him into their ranks disproves that
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 3:47 pm
 
what's crazy is supposedly the little girl that was shot and killed was born on 09/11/2001
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 5:17 pm | Edited by: SSSSSSS
 
Apparently Giffords was into the Tucson scooter scene back in the day - ca 1990.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 5:33 pm
 
This country is FUCKED IN THE HEAD.

FOX new's (and talk radio's) chickens are coming home to roost...deplorable shit..
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 5:40 pm
 
i'm curious who this mystery figure is, some white dude in his 50's that they think figures into this act and who was caught on a security cam. it will be morbidly interesting to see where the tentacles lead.

according to the NY Times:
Investigators said that the second man was a taxi driver who drove the suspected gunman to the scene. Upon arriving there, the passenger said he did not have change and he and the taxi driver went into the supermarket for change and the two then walked out together and separated.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 9:48 pm
 
I just talked with my dad about this in the States and he said it reminded him of the feeling he had when Charles Whitman shot all those people. Pretty potent stuff.

there was another UT incident recently (late Sept. 2010) - a student fired shots on campus on his way to the library where he then killed his self. different in the sense that he didn't shoot anyone but himself - crazy fucked up, tho.

starting to feel nervous about going to UT ...
or ANYWHERE !!!! near a politician, that is.
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 9:52 pm
 
the taxi driver went into the supermarket for change and the two then walked out together and separated.

i wonder if that taxi driver would make a good interview
Posted: Jan 9, 2011 11:45 pm
 
'm curious who this mystery figure is, some white dude in his 50's that they think figures into this act and who was caught on a security cam. it will be morbidly interesting to see where the tentacles lead.

according to the NY Times:
Investigators said that the second man was a taxi driver who drove the suspected gunman to the scene. Upon arriving there, the passenger said he did not have change and he and the taxi driver went into the supermarket for change and the two then walked out together and separated.


starting to sound like just a single fucked up individual. regardless of ideological slant-intelligible or not- there isn't much that can be done about that. a sociopath is a sociopath and will find any reason to justify being one.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:03 am | Edited by: SSSSSSS
 
I guess she still has a scooter or two AND a badass BMW.

I'll try to keep y'all updated on the shit that matters. Political bullshit.... blah.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:08 am | Edited by: SSSSSSS
 
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:23 am
 
her grandfather owned and operated El Campo tires in town and her father is cousins with Gwyneth Paltrow's dad

gross!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:31 am
 
Yep, politicians are almost always guaranteed scum. No way around that.

Gwyneth Paltrow is one hell of a singer, tho. Actress-wise meh.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 8:23 am
 
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 10:54 am
 
a sociopath is a sociopath and will find any reason to justify being one.
True, but it makes one wonder about the Chicken and/or Egg part of that equation...as in how much of that psychotic behavior was there before and after that inflamed rhetoric..or at what level it could have been managed if mental health programs hadn't been summarily decimated over the last 30 years....read this thing on the Southern Poverty Law Center's site that shows a few sources for his seemingly random and nonsensical YouTube rants...pretty interesting..

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/09/who-is-jared-lee-loughner/
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 11:09 am
 
if the shooter had been a Tea Party member or in a position of power in that org I'd grant you that

that he was a deranged individual with out there ideas that would not ingratiate him into their ranks disproves that


That's what I take away from this. The asshole kid wasn't "aligned" with the tea party, or anyone else. I am afraid that this will empower other half wits with an agenda to act. But there lies the rub; Do you stiffen gun laws to counteract the loonies? No, that would be giving them more power and credence. As for throwing immigration into the mix, that's really a red herring. Our immigration system is fucked, it needs to be fixed with a clear path for citizenship for those already here that are contributing to our society.

Champ I applaud you for taking a stand and following your conscience. Remember that is our right as granted by the constitution. However, fleeing the problem in and of itself is not a solution. But it is an exercise in free will. I disagree with your statement that backing strong rights is wrong, those are the fundamentals that frame the constitution. Unfortunately, one faction hides behind the constitution and the other doesn't understand it.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 11:40 am
 
Do you stiffen gun laws to counteract the loonies?
Fucking A yes you do...that is exactly why gun laws should exist...I'm all for the right to bear arms, that's fine, but why is it the second something like a one week waiting period or a possibly slightly more extensive mental health check is suggested, the NRA or other such organizations start screaming to the rafters about the Government taking away their rights? That's part of the problem with focusing on only one argument, one Amendment, or what have you...you stop looking in things in context....that ALL of those laws should be there to protect ALL of the citizens...your right to by a semi-automatic handgun, and my right, or say, the family in Tuscon who lost their 9 year old daughter's right, to live in safety....not having to worry about the next whack-job running out to grab a gun nearly as easily as he could a loaf of bread...
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 11:49 am
 
you guys ('n gals) are smart.
seriously.

i'm glad to be on this forum. cheers, all. don't let the numbskulls get you down.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 12:29 pm
 
Unfortunately, one faction hides behind the constitution and the other doesn't understand it.

Is the Constitutional Law professor voted to be president part of the faction hiding behind or not understanding the Constitution?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 12:36 pm
 
What is it with white guys and their anxious masculinity?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 12:42 pm
 
As usual, the media is focusing on superfluous things -- he listens to rock music and reads Marx

Ayn Rand's on that list too. He's got his ideological bases covered.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 12:51 pm
 
matto...exactly. guns should at least be as restricted or regulated as fucking moving vehicles. The NRA however is a HUGE lobbying group and anything that would affect their industry shall not come to pass as long as they have something to say about it. That this Laughner kid had been determined to be a danger by his college and kicked out and not allowed into the military for the same reasons but could go to a store and purchase a weapon speaks volumes about who's to actually blame.

but no we instead do things like this http://www.slate.com/id/2280674/ because that will curtail murders

I missed the immigration angle on this, carney. care to point it out

other good articles
http://www.slate.com/id/2280616/

http://www.slate.com/id/2280605/
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 12:59 pm
 
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/01/09/who-is-jared-lee-loughner/

so far the best analysis of loughner. starting to miss him being called "a fringe type" though.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 1:07 pm
 
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 1:23 pm
 
As usual, the media is focusing on superfluous things -- he listens to rock music and reads Marx

Ayn Rand's on that list too. He's got his ideological bases covered.


W.C. Fields was supposed caught reading the bible. He said he was "looking for loopholes."
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 1:36 pm | Edited by: carney
 
Is the Constitutional Law professor voted to be president part of the faction hiding behind or not understanding the Constitution?
I think he has a pretty good grasp, but just as I broadly characterized the right, the left is generally more willing to restrict constitutional rights.

I missed the immigration angle on this, carney. care to point it out

It was a reference to part of Champ's statement. It does fit into the context of a political assignation in a state that has a history of immigration problems.

That this Laughner kid had been determined to be a danger by his college and kicked out and not allowed into the military for the same reasons but could go to a store and purchase a weapon speaks volumes about who's to actually blame.

No argument there. But laws like handgun bans (Chicago, NY, DC) make no sense. The laws on the books need to enforced and those who commit crimes with guns should face much harsher penalties. I am all for waiting periods, extensive background checks and licensing.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:04 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
You referenced Suicidal Tendencies earlier. It reminded me of what a lot the old Black Panther/Black Power people had to say about Black music after the '70s. After the government systematically destroyed Black self-help organizations through programs like COINTELPRO, disaffection in the ghettos grew. It turned into violence and the music stopped being so constructive. You had stuff like STAX and Gil-Scott Heron morph into something much darker. They viewed this a natural and unfortunate result of the climate Black youth found themselves in. It promotes distorted views...

I still live by the motto NWA taught me....I'm the type of nigga that's built to last, you fuck with me I'll stick my foot up your ass

I love how they have the head FBI agent assigned to the case saying that he thinks it was caused by all of the "paranoia about government"......yeah that doesn't add to any of our paranoia (sarcasm)....this country is run by a bunch of fucking douche bags....I'm about ready to start my own White Panthers chapter, who's with me?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:10 pm | Edited by: arman
 
laws like handgun bans (Chicago

we can have handguns now, but no conceal carry...yet.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:15 pm
 
That this Laughner kid had been determined to be a danger by his college and kicked out and not allowed into the military for the same reasons but could go to a store and purchase a weapon speaks volumes

good friggin point. on the other hand, it seems like the gun debate will never be solved. my own pops was dishonorably discharged from the military, but he's been responsible with his guns (so far!)-

read the analysis arman linked up. interesting ...
considering violence on campuses by armed kids makes me wonder what the details are surrounding his college's judgements of him as dangerous ... what's the story?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 2:37 pm
 
You guys heard about Ashley Turton yet?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 4:57 pm
 
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 5:37 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
I am sure he's not the first guy that's held a grudge against an intelligent woman for out-clevering his stupid ass. God, what a world-class asshole. Even besides the killing and shit.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 6:17 pm
 
Matto, that's not how rights work. That's how privileges work.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 6:22 pm
 
and people can have their "rights" taken away
convicts
the mentally ill
etc.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 8:22 pm
 
Mark - that's after the case, not a priori. Testing and licensing before the fact is different than forbidding after the fact.
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 8:33 pm
 
which as you can see from those links, Wire, maybe someone should have been paying attention after the fact

I really do not see why testing and licensing for a gun is a problem anymore than testing and licensing to drive a car. Remember we are also guaranteed the right of freedom of travel in the Constitution

so why is one so much different than the other?
Posted: Jan 10, 2011 8:36 pm
 
also I realize that people will still be able to illegally buy guns, but just allowing a kid to walk into a store and purchase a weapon that has a history like Loughner had seems as crazy as he was
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 9:07 am
 
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 9:22 am
 
Whole thing plays like an episode of 'Walker, Texas Ranger'.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 9:59 am
 
All you comics fans might want to avoid doing business with this guy.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 10:04 am | Edited by: carney
 
[i]I'm proudly on the extreme left and encourage debate; I don't expect others to agree with me, but that's what democracy is about...

Anyway, enjoy the discourse with you. Wish they could always be this diplomatic...[/


I don't identify myself as left/right I am all over the map. Both sides piss me off for different reasons. Somewhere between all the rhetoric is common sense, that's what I strive for. And it can be situational, I find fewer absolutes the older I get. Yes, civilized discussion is rare, and I appreciate our discourse and the fact that it can occur in the first place.

A few clarifications: empowering the lunatic fringe with stiffer gun laws refers to giving their agenda publicity, not the direct result of the gun law itself. If these whack jobs become martyred by the patriot/militia types watch out. As I said, I am all for stiffer gun laws and penalties as long as they don't punish those with clean records. Especially penalties. Every school shooting involves a kid too young to legally posses a gun. If they used daddy's gun, daddy needs to be held responsible.

The immigration thing was thrown out there by the media to try to tie the kid to the tea baggers. The border states all have their own share of the blame by turning a blind eye towards illegal immigrants. But that does not make this incident the result of flawed immigration policy. The Southern Poverty law Center's assessment of the shooter is a little presumptuous, attributing the kid's statements to various fringe movements. Who knows what was inside his addled brain? They have done the defense's homework for them, they could use that info to show that accused was simply a deranged person who was provoked to kill by the fringe leaders. The SPLC does great work, I have contributed to them financially and played benefits for them, but they are further muddying the waters with their assessment.

Also, just to clarify again, I referred to you fleeing the problem, not the country. I respect your decision, as you said, your problems with US policy goes back to the foundation of the country. I guess the great philosophical question is: At what point is cause not worth fighting for? Is there valor in fighting for a lost cause (in your case America)? I also respect that your motivation is your kids and their well being. These are all tough questions with even tougher answers.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 11:17 am | Edited by: Uptight White
 
Turns out this guy had a beef with Congresswoman Giffords going back to the Pre-Palin/ Pre-Tea Party days of 2007, and his political philosophy was too muddled to make really peg him as either a liberal or conservative wacko.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voic email-phone-message

Even if this guy turned out the biggest Tea Partier in the USA, it wouldn't matter. The Tea Party/ Palin cabal would still be no more responsible for this murderer's actions than AC/DC were for Richard Ramirez becoming the Night Stalker or the Beatles for Charles Manson using his army of mind-controlled murderers attempt to bring about Helter Skelter.

I (and many on here) listen to some of the most extremely violent and anti-social music that not only has no redeeming value, but is also probably also corrosive and coarsening on some level. It feeds one side of our divided nature, and we compartmentalize it. The same could be said about a lot of people choice of art, cinema, amime, etc and we would never do what Loughner did, because we are civilized and have lives we choose not to throw away over a perceived slight by an elected official.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 11:51 am
 
Turns out this guy had a beef with Congresswoman Giffords going back to the Pre-Palin/ Pre-Tea Party days of 2007, and his political philosophy was too muddled to make really peg him as either a liberal or conservative wacko.

The tea party, in its un-astroturffed version, was indeed active back then. I don't think his political philosophy (from what I've read) is muddled - it's pretty much spot-on with the liberty movement.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:00 pm
 
then you have realy not been paying attention Razor A Go Go

in an unrelated item here's some info on AZ gun laws

http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/in-gun-control-debate-more-than-on e-issue-at-play
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:08 pm
 
then you have realy not been paying attention Razor A Go Go


Elaborate, please? Because I'm 100% sure that anti-choice, gold-standard, anti-big-government sentiment, and declarations that the DOE, etc., are unconstitutional are staples of the liberty movement.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:24 pm
 
do you not know how to click on those blue things in this thread

might I direct your attention specifically to the mother jones one ( a vast right wing conspiracy type magazine I know, but bear with me)

and the washington post one (another right wing vanguard)

and just cause I'm a nice guy
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/10/national/main7229463.shtml

which if your claim that he was anti-choice comes from him laughing hysterically and saying "she killed a baby" after a girl read a poem about an abortion I think you might have a little different concept about that then most people...he also supposedly said that he wanted to strap a bomb to the fetus and make a baby bomb
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:31 pm
 
I suppose that means he wanted to increase the arms race and continue the cold war
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:45 pm
 
so why is one so much different than the other?

good question --- people get killed by cars too!
in fact, didn't Laura Bush use her car to kill her ex-boyfriend?
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:52 pm
 
your argument would bear more weight if Loughner had went out and bought a car and then drove it into the people murdered
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:53 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
I looked "vitriol" up and it's like metal or metalic acid....what is it some kind of fed pig expression? My Mom tells me to use these cherry cough drops from Target because they have zinc in them, and will help clear out my sinuses better...I just figure it's her early onset alhzheimers talkin...

"vitriol"??? wtf? Bitterness?

All I know is that I'm going to go buy a shot gun while I still can, and I'm going to saw it off and carry it around, while it's winter and I'll still look normal in a long coat....Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 12:56 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
good question --- people get killed by cars too!
in fact, didn't Laura Bush use her car to kill her ex-boyfriend?



I want my DUI expunged!!! and not on account of waiting the 5 year period without a ticket.

Tell me who I've got to shoot before I'm granted justice damn it!
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:05 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
Mark - I have read both the CBS article you link as well as the Mother Jones article, and watched the Youtubes, and he still comes across as a smug entitled white dude that was angry that he got outsmarted by a successful woman's more clever response to his stupid question. I've been in classes with assholes just like him. I've even dated a few.

I am really not sure what it is that I am not "paying attention" to. Mental illness (which at this point is purely speculation by armchair psychologists) does not necessarily preclude political motivation. The mentally ill are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators, and nonetheless, they still operate in the same society and are exposed to the same things that you or I are. I had not read the baby bomb thing (link?). That proves nothing except that, once again, he is extremely stupid while thinking himself to be smarter than everyone else. Fetuses aren't babies, and the fetal size through a significant portion of gestation would be way too small to strap a bomb to. :P
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:15 pm
 
" The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.


Mistrust of government was Loughner's defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

On his YouTube page, he listed among his favorite books "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World" - two novels about how authorities control the masses. Other books in the wide-ranging list included "Mein Kampf," "The Communist Manifesto," "Peter Pan" and Aesop's Fables.

Over time, Loughner became increasingly introspective - what one of the friends described as a "nihilistic rut."

An ardent atheist, he began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the government and the monotony of modern life.

"He didn't want people to wake up and do the same thing every day. He wanted more chaos, he wanted less regularity," one friend said.

The friends said Loughner told anyone who would listen that the world we see does not exist, that words have no meaning - and that the only way to derive meaning was during sleep. Loughner began obsessing about a practice called lucid dreaming, in which people try to actively control their sleeping world. "
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:25 pm
 
two links to the baby bomb thing

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-shooting- loughner-20110111,0,4373665.story

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared-lee-loughner-suspected-gabrielle-g iffords-shooter-school/story?id=12575278

and just so you know I'm not trying to compartmentalize this guy into some political view

but he was an atheist, his favorite video on youtube was burning a flag, he wrote on his myspace he wanted to kill a cop, some of his favorite books were Animal Farm, and Brave New World, and he wanted more chaos in the world. None of this screams Tea Party member to me
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:25 pm
 
Mistrust of government was Loughner's defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

Lots of 9/11 truther and "amero" dudes in the liberty movement.

An ardent atheist, he began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the government and the monotony of modern life.

As I said above...

words have no meaning - and that the only way to derive meaning was during sleep.

See also: David Wynn Miller
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:34 pm
 
david wynn miller isn't a tea party member or a right winger, even though some of his ideas run tandem with theirs

c'mon would any self respecting tea party member say this

"An article published by the Southern Poverty Law Center in 2003 referred to Miller as a "Professional Conspiracist" and stated that Miller claimed Bill Clinton and the entire Supreme Court of the United States were students of his. "

this idea that people are one thing or another is just as bat shit crazy as Loughner himself. And the need to compartmentalize everyone and justify it through methods that seem to really be stretching is I would say as big of a detriment to society as the right wing rhetoric
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:36 pm
 
the fact that you can not entertain any idea that does not fit in with your preconceived notion of this kid tells me all I really need to know
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:41 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
I've been in classes with assholes just like him. I've even dated a few.



What the fuck...I'm nothing but a sweetheart untill you get me wet....never get me wet.


Seriously, I'm left wondering if that quote warrants a rebuttal.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:46 pm
 
david wynn miller isn't a tea party member or a right winger, even though some of his ideas run tandem with theirs

I never said he was a right winger or a teabagger or a member of any political group, dude. I said that he holds many beliefs that are in line with the liberty movement - this is not subjective. This movement has, in some capacity, influenced the Tea Party movement in its original incarnation, and as you say, "some of his ideas run tandem with theirs."

this idea that people are one thing or another is just as bat shit crazy as Loughner himself

Well, one is a amero-nafta-super-highway-feama-camp-9/11 truth-conspiracy theorist, or one is not. I guess count me in the latter category.

And the need to compartmentalize everyone and justify it through methods that seem to really be stretching is I would say as big of a detriment to society as the right wing rhetoric

Yes - trying to understand the myriad factors that would lead one to commit mass murder and attempt to assassinate a political figure is *totally* just as bad as calling for liberal hunting season. Mmm hmm.

the fact that you can not entertain any idea that does not fit in with your preconceived notion of this kid tells me all I really need to know

What idea am I not entertaining? I have no preconceived notions of this kid. I have opinions based on empirical evidence and, to a lesser-extent, on hearsay (i.e. second-hand accounts from his friends, classmates, etc.) which basically lead me to the conclusion that 1) he thinks he is much smarter and much more important than he really is 2) he was politically motivated and 3) he may or may not have an undiagnosed mental illness that contributed to his acting on #2. Is this wrong-headed?
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:48 pm
 
I don't care if some of this shit is pointed at me...your honor I rest my case:

Downtown to the courthouse
For some pass-the-buck justice
It's a knock-down, drag 'em out, beat 'em up, mace the crowd
Strip search, busted
Can't control the fire
Coming through barbed wire
It's a junkyard, live hard, bear the scars of broke and charred
Sellers and buyers
So when all is said and done
Watch out, 'cause here they come
Shadows of the night

It's the last of the old ways
It's the wave of the new age
Computerized, digitized, money markets, mechanized
Internet highway
Infected by the needy
Neglected by the greedy
Chaos, blood loss, nickel bagging debutants
Looking for a freebie

We got radio silence
Another act of violence
Backstage, spray paint, security in rollerskates
Beating on a new dance
Going down on a choker
Stun gun smoker
Open range, who's game, shoot until the scream of pain
Never getting older
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:48 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
Seriously, I'm left wondering if that quote warrants a rebuttal.

I never had a class with you, if this is who I assume it to be, and I dated people before and after you. Libertarians that yapped my ear off about gold standards and shit, even. I have never taken to this web site or any other to talk shit about you and have absolutely no desire to do so. Give me some fucking credit. Oy vey. Do not derail.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:53 pm
 
I don't even care about the Arizona shooting....

I want to know how a fucking car can explode from crashing into a garage door? I've done it before, my car didn't explode.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:54 pm
 
i] never had a class with you, if this is who I assume it to be, and I dated people before and after you. Libertarians that yapped my ear off about gold standards and shit, even. I have never taken to this web site or any other to talk shit about you and have absolutely no desire to do so. Give me some fucking credit. Oy vey. Do not derail.[/i]

I've only ever dated sweethearts.[
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 1:59 pm
 
this makes alot more sense now
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:07 pm
 
i wish i was smart enough to comment, but i've enjoyed reading this thread.

back to garage doors. it has "garage" in it.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:11 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
http://music.aol.com/song/pist/1164796

"If everybody had a notion
To pick up a gun and go down to the city hall
Then everybody would be happy
There'd be a revolution...yeah right.

Come on and tell me do you know the fucking score
Cuz I can't tell the forest from the trees
Com on and tell me do you know the fucking score
Cuz I can't tell the forest from the trees

yeehaw"
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:12 pm
 
this makes alot more sense now

Which I suppose is easier than answering what ideas I am allegedly not entertaining.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:26 pm
 
the idea that the kid was batshit crazy and could be construed as belonging to the Silly Party, or the Very Silly Party, or the Slightly Silly Party, or the Sensible Party, or the Darkie Power Party as much as to the Tea Party or the Democratic Socialist Party
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:55 pm
 
I think it's nuts that in my state there's no limit on how many guns one person can...a guy can own 500 handguns, and in fact I once had a disturbing experience where a neighbor turned out to have over 500 hand guns and a mentaly challenged son who was always talking about shooting people.

But the gun trade legal and illegal is a huge corporation in the U.S., especially in my state where the NRA has their annual convention and the National Arms Museum is here....when you consider that at this point and probbably since WWII the War complex has been unstoppable, it's no wonder that we as a society can't be responcible with firearms anymore....so much fucking hypocrisy.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:55 pm
 
wow. i looked at loughner's youtube for a few minutes. weird. his mug shot is soooooooo sinister.

i get confused about what the left stands for and what the right stands for.

took a little test on politicalcompass.org which says I'm a case of extreme left (it places obama just slightly left of bush, both still in the "right" quad).
anyways, mother jones is right wing? mother jones one ( a vast right wing conspiracy type magazine
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 2:59 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
And now we can hear all of the retarded suggestions by our elected officials just trying to get home and watch their favorite shows on Tivo...like how we should outlaw the shooting and burning of "edifeces"...do scaire crows count? I want to be a fly on the wall when our bullshit congress debates that one.

Let's outlaw T-shirts that have politicians in cross hairs.....those are about the coolest things at any given truckstop....lets make the world even lamer, that'll realy help alot.

My name is Tigerblinds and that's my 2 cents.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:10 pm
 
no, hennypenny, I was being sarcastic

and Champion Leland Dupree it's understandable that you are jumping to defend the Democratic Socialist party since that's probably the closest party that I listed that you'd feel an affiliation for, BUT YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT!
I also listed a bunch of fake political parties from a comedy sketch and said he might as well have belonged to them too

meaning I believe what political party he belonged to had little relevance
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:10 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
the idea that the kid was batshit crazy and could be construed as belonging to the Silly Party, or the Very Silly Party, or the Slightly Silly Party, or the Sensible Party, or the Darkie Power Party as much as to the Tea Party or the Democratic Socialist Party

I never contended that he belonged to any political party. In fact, I assumed (rightly so, it seems) as though he belonged to none. The liberty/patriot movement is not a party, and I certainly don't think it's inappropriate to consider all factors that would lead to a political assassination attempt (no indications that I've seen, so far, that he was specifically targeting the federal judge), a.k.a. domestic terrorism. I really do not understand what you find so objectionable to examining the political motivations of someone that murdered six people as a result of an assassination attempt on a federal politician.

took a little test on politicalcompass.org which says I'm a case of extreme left

Just a starting point. That quiz and others similar are typically quite slanted.

anyways, mother jones is right wing?

I think that was sarcasm.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:16 pm
 
oh. i was like ... huH? ... hehe.

neway, how bout that creepy mugshot!

and how 'bout good ol' rush for having nice things to say!
(don't read it,tho, you'll probly wish you hadn't wasted time.)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/11/rush-limbaugh-jared-loughner- full-support-democrat_n_807543.html
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:18 pm
 
I really do not understand what you find so objectionable to examining the political motivations of someone that murdered six people as a result of an assassination attempt on a federal politician.

I don't find it objectionable in the least, what I've been saying all along is that I do not think anyone is going to be able to "understand" this kid's political motivations or any other motivations for what he did

crazy doesn't really lend itself to that
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:39 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
I don't think it's that difficult to understand that 2+2=4. I also don't think he is necessarily "crazy." Not saying he's not, but I think it's kind of dismissive and insulting to the actual clinically mentally ill, who are no more likely to be violent than the general population. Unless you think he was a pothead and are of the opinion that potheads go all crazy murderer with some demonstrable frequency.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:41 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
Err that should be "stigmatizing" not "insulting."
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:46 pm
 
I'm not saying he was "crazy" because he shot people, I'm saying he was "crazy" because he didn't seem to be able to put coherent thoughts together and acted strange

I do not know why he acted violently and don't know if anyone ever will

and Champion Leland Dupree sorry I like Monty python, I think that shit is funny
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 3:50 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
I'm saying he was "crazy" because he didn't seem to be able to put coherent thoughts together and acted strange

Well then we harken back to the eternal question when it comes to assholes: stupid or crazy? Until it is actually proven otherwise, my bet is on stupid. (Source: being mansplained at about political politics by dudes on the internet; having a severely schizophrenic relative)
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 4:02 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
 
right, and in your mind I'm attacking your relative in someway when I'm not at all

and it wouldn't surprise me if this kid was diagnosed with shiczophrenia or something else
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 5:35 pm
 
If you like Jon Stewart, or hell, even if you don't, I'd recommend checking out what he had to say last night. I think the rerun is on soon for you East Coasters, or find it online. He has the first 10-15 minutes of the program.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 6:27 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
in your mind I'm attacking your relative in someway when I'm not at all


No. I don't think you're attacking anyone and certainly haven't taken a single thing you've said personally. I think that painting a would-be assassin as severely mentally ill without any actual evidence of this while minimizing the political climate in which such a thing occurred is irresponsible. I didn't say he is or isn't mentally ill. I said that right now my bets are on "stupid" moreso than "crazy," though they are of course not mutually exclusive. I have read accounts speculating that he is schizophrenic (though you personally have not said this), and while I know a few, some of whom have been hospitalized or institutionalized, they have not been murderers, and as a rule (though data on this may be outdated), the mentally ill are no more likely to commit violent crime than those who aren't mentally ill. And while it would not necessarily surprise me if he were diagnosed with an Axis II disorder, I think that's something best left to medical professionals that have some expertise and personal knowledge of the man.

Next.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 6:31 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Champion Leland Dupree will you join my chapter of the White Panthers?

You can be the Joint Chief of Staff....or hell you can be President, I'll be the Joint Chief of Staff....anyway we is gonna get higher than some motherfuckers.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 6:33 pm
 
...and do it while also empowering the people.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 6:36 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
 
agreed about mental health and violence and the propensity for or against

in my mind Loughner's theories and syllogisms are not coming from a stupid person as much as a very confused and "crazy" as in not connecting with reality person. (we could of course have a whole nother discussion on what is reality and what do we base real reality on) And I'm not attempting to minimize the political climate, I'd have to be really dumb to do that. What I'm minimizing is the fact that you could draw a straight line from right wing talk show rhetoric to him. It doesn't appear to me that he was concerned with that the way other people are speaking on it
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 6:51 pm | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
Granted it could be selection bias but none of bleeding heart liberal shit that i read on a daily basis has tried to draw a direct line from wingnut rhetoric to him. More like multiple lines to multiple things some of which are calls for violence taken as a group not any specific thing any one person has said. Sarah Palin's target image is one of an assortment of what is likely hundreds. And Sarah Palin, et al, know this, which is why they scrub it and backtrack and lie about what they actually said. They know they contribute to this climate.

I don't doubt he is very confused. Stupid people often are, and stupid people often still think they have it all figured out. Pandagon has an interesting commentary up right now discussing intellectual dishonesty, outright lies, and paranoid fantasies and they serve to confuse and mislead people. Worth a read, if you're into that kind of stuff.
Posted: Jan 11, 2011 7:10 pm
 
(From site):

On June 26, 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court embraced the National Rifle Association's contention that the Second Amendment provides individuals with the right to take violent action against our government should it become "tyrannical." The following timeline catalogues incidents of insurrectionist violence (or the promotion of such violence) that have occurred since that decision was issued:

Insurrectionism timeline
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 7:45 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Haha! Only if we can smoke dope together on Terry Ork's grave!
Done deal, I didn't even know he died.


What's amazing to me is that anyone believes anything they see on television....maybe it's because I haven't owned a T.V. in many years, and maybe watch T.V. 20 times a year...but everytime I see it just seems like a bunch of blithering idiots blatantly lying to their viewership...

Does anyone actualy believe in mainstream politics anymore? I think someone should hold the past administration responcible for sanctioned mass murder in NYC.....it's glaringly obvious it was a cover up....someone does need to take some drastic fucking action.

I propose the New White Panthers Party!!!! and trust me...it will be a partyyyy! Champion Leland Dupree is the president and I'm the Joint Chief of Staff and their are some other chairs open for grabs right now....and we can even play drunk musical chairs for them if you all want....but we're talking Animal House here....only we're going to let all of the animals out of the zoo for starters, and then we're going to fire bomb the fucking federalies.....and you know what....it's about 25 years over due.....we're making up for lost time here.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 8:09 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
A recent survey just came out saying that 20% of Americans identify themselves as Republicans when asked, and 30% as democrats.

Nobody fucking believes in mainstream politics anymore...it's more bullshit than professional wrestling....

The bullshit rhetoric that has come out of the Arizona shooting is laughable... especially in that no one is realy going to do shit....because no one is going to fuck with the NRA or the illegal gun trade which is (regardles of if you're a "believer") managed and run by the federal U.S.

So basicaly we're getting a bunch of talking heads on both sides of the spectrum saying, "Grr...come election year I'm gonna body slam you so hard your eyeballs are going to pop out...and we're going to make your manager eat them..."....and who the fuck do you think is influenced most by this kind of rhetoric? The typical fucking American Gladiator fan, that's who....they fucking burn edifices at professional wrestling matches all of the time, and everybody paints their bodies red, white, and blue...that's how you should be looking at modern U.S. politics.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 8:14 am
 
Actually when you look at it from that angle...Sarah Palin is already one step ahead of the rest of us....President Palin here we come...somone should shoot her now.....all she has to do now is show us her tits...

Welcome to America!
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 8:16 am
 
... shit happens er-rry day in da hood


oh, and this too
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 9:04 am
 
I've never seen Monty Python

are you sure you don't belong to the communist party?
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 11:03 am | Edited by: Seamus
 
more hilarity ensues...

i would have loved to be a fly on the wall when coached her on the script for this.

http://vimeo.com/18698532

i dare you to try and make it through this.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 11:42 am
 
dare you to try and make it through this.

three minutes 7 seconds.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 12:22 pm
 
If there is such a thing as "Lizard People" Sarah Palin is their leader.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 1:37 pm
 
i dare you to try and make it through this.

40 seconds - long enough to watch her almost giggle like a school girl with a crush (a creepy stalker crush) on her teacher, as she reads "our exceptional country." Was that in the script? No matter, at that point I was already annoyed and distracted by the teleprompter reflected in her glasses.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 1:44 pm
 
I saw his best friend from high school on TV saying he didn't even recognize the uncle Fester looking individual in the recent mugshot. I have to say, his documented behavior over the last year or so mirrors the dissent into undiagnosed schizophrenia that I have seen in friends and relatives. I'm not talking about the shootings. I'm talking about his increasing obsession with alternate realities, paranoia, self-isolation, etc... This is not a dig at the mentally ill. It is also not proof of mental illness. It could be many things are in play, including some sort of drug abuse, though his friends claim he was living a drug free lifestyle. If it is mental illness though, I feel bad for him that he didn't receive the help he needed even though many friends and teachers, and most likely his parents, had noticed something was wrong. I also feel sad that he was able to purchase a firearm. I don't agree with all the political rhetoric flying around but it does seem Arizona has become the key battleground for immigration, concealed weapons and other highly charged issues. Living in this tense atmosphere may have helped to push him towards violent action. Then again, maybe not. It's just sad.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 1:46 pm
 
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:00 pm
 
That article was ridiculous. It's title sums up it's predisposed slant. It conveniently leaves out Oklahoma City, Uni-bomber and other obvious contradictions. Idiotic.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:04 pm
 
Greg - you beat me to it.

By the way, it's been pointed out (by Rachel Maddow, at least) that the so-called mug shot is not. Apparently, none has been released.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:19 pm
 
Um, probably b/c all of those you mentioned were pre-9/11 anti-Muslim hysteria.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:42 pm
 
Um, no, probably because there was an ideology fueling their actions. Try again.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:47 pm
 
What about the DC sniper? He even got a band named after him....
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 2:49 pm
 
also

terrorism is "premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents."

again I'm not sure we have the evidence to say it was politically motivated or he was a "clandestine agent"

and I seem to remember lots of people saying there should be a halt on calling Hasan a terrorist.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 3:14 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
The Ft.Hood shooting was unique....it was in a controlled environment first of all....any military base should be considered a controlled environment, even if it is the P.X. and dependants are on the premise.

I couldn't even read that article when I saw it was comparing this kid that needed psychiatric treatment, to a disgruntled military psychiatrist (granted in need of psychiatric help as well).....but the Ft. Hood shooting stinks of Special Op. just like the John Wheeler murder....yeah it probbably influenced this kid, just like the poetry kid at VA Tech that murdered all of those people.

For all the folks keeping tabs, I was born at Ft.Hood (Texas/Austin pride)...and one thing you could compare it to, would be the guy in the early months of the 2nd Iraq War who opened fire, or bombed, I can't remember which, all of the other guys in his platoon.....anyone else rememember that?

That's part of the problem, the American public has the attention span of amoebas.

Also, you might be able to draw a comparison between the Ft. Hood shooter and the 2 soldiers (marines to be more precise) that were "murdered" in Panama, supposedly at a Panamanian checkpoint that directly lead to the invasion 3 days later...because that too was in a controlled environment that smelled like the Feds.

The only reason I can remember all this shit is because it happens to parallel my own fucking life....why? Beats the hell out of me....

But what I'm trying to say is that you can't compare this Sid Barett uncle fester kid, shooting up a county fair to a soldier killing his brothers in arms....and anyone who has ever been on a military base should be able to explain to you why.

Also, when it does happen in a controled environment of any sort, subway or DMZ, whatever, there's always a strong case to be made for the Feds being involved......other than that, they have to hide behind shock and awe and "terrorism"....

Anyway, yeah it's sad. There's no answers, just Shadows in the Night....Dead Moon baby.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 4:04 pm
 
Um, no, probably because there was an ideology fueling their actions. Try again.

Oh, you mean to tell me this security theater nonsense has been in response to white dudes doing bad shit?

Scott Roeder: not a terrorist
James von Brunn: not a terrorist
Joseph Stack: not a terrorist
Jim Adkinson: not a terrorist
Luke Helder: not a terrorist
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 4:06 pm
 
and I seem to remember lots of people sensible people saying there should be a halt on calling Hasan a terrorist.

FTFY
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 5:56 pm
 
I seem to remember lots of people saying there should be a halt on calling Hasan a terrorist.

Here is some fun trivia for the conspiracy theorists. The subconscious mind, of course, picks up on many things that bypass conscious perception.

Nidal Malik Hasan.

Did you know Nidal Malik is an anagram for "aim and kill"? With a name like that he was already a prime candidate for clandestine mind control. Well, it's fun to think about anyway even if you don't subscribe to such beliefs.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 5:56 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Uh, Razor don't argue too much with Greg O... he's one of a handfull of the greatest songwriters still "doing it" regularly.....doing it!

I don't even believe in terrorism anymore...I think BinLaden was a fucking CIA informant or they fucking killed him before 9/11 even. Research all of the different videos, they're not even all the same person....the CIA even admits to forging two Bin Laden videos they released to the public for 3 weeks, "Just to see if they could do it"...and then admited it was a forgery (but didn't accept responcibility untill months later) and the story quickly died.

So yeah, terrorism, I'm not sure it's not sanctioned murder in many cases....some are quack jobs....some are CIA.....the more suspicious scenerios are when the terrorist gets killed themselves, because then it's alot harder to make heads or tails of the situation.

I'm a fucking liberal, my fucking political heroes are Jon Stewart Mills and Thomas Jefferson...I don't think communism works but when you consider that the U.S. and Europe are both technically socialist governments and then you compare them to fucking China....it's getting harder and harder to argue that case.....but I'm just a fucking regular run of the mill liberal, who calls himself a Democrat when pressed on the matter.....but if this is what the fucking ant-government movement is all about also, then fucking good.....as long as Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Ruper Murdoch, Warren Buffet, George W and so on and so forth are the first fuckers they hang and burn....but so far, I can't fine any of these redneck militia fucks that can speak in complete sentences.....and usualy it sounds like Nancy Paloci and Obama and Hilary Clinton are first on their list....so fuck them.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 5:57 pm
 
I disagree, as lots of those sensible people have been claiming Loughner is a right wing tea party member

it's political situational ethics and it's stupid
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 6:02 pm
 
plus the mainstream media made sure to not call Hasan a terrorist or even stress him being a muslim when the shootings at Ft Hood happened
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 9:22 pm
 
@Mark - Uh, you sure about that? Because I listen to NPR every morning, not exactly a fringe, right-wing news outlet, and it was sure as shit reinforced that he was Muslim. Not exclusively. And no, they did not call him a terrorist. Hence my "sensible people" comment.

Those sensible people, the ones you say claim he is a right wing tea party member? Where? Where are these strawpeople? I've read a lot of people who have said his actions were politically motivated (they are not wrong), that he could be mentally ill (also a reasonable "if" speculation), and that an increase in violent and paranoia-charged rhetoric from the right wing (also objectively provable) could have contributed to thing two (instability) tipping over to thing one (murder). I don't think any of those are unreasonable assessments.

@TigerBlinds - I do not look to musicians I admire for advice on my values and opinions about the world.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 9:34 pm
 
Because I listen to NPR every morning, not exactly a fringe, right-wing news outlet, and it was sure as shit reinforced that he was Muslim. Not exclusively. And no, they did not call him a terrorist.

i agree with this, although they did say he was associated with some sort of muslim leader with ties to terrorists
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 10:20 pm
 
I have nothing but respect for razor's opinions.There is far more information to come, before any of us can really come to any kind of understanding about what his motivations were. In regards to who the media calls a terrorist and who they do not, If there was any scrap of proof that he was linked to any organization or political movement, they'd already be calling him one. And if they find it, they will.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 10:25 pm
 
I thought President Obama gave a good sermon tonite.
He said just the right things. I don't remember feeling that way about any other president's speeches. I don't always dig his speeches, but this was one of the good ones.
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 10:26 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
 
razor a go go

those "strawpeople" are people I know (like in real life) who have been saying this in person and on the internet...there have also been plenty of comments on the internet with wackos of all stripes trying to attribute Loughner to either some group on the right or left. Don't really know how you haven't stumbled across this your self but if you haven't feel lucky

as for what the media was saying about Hasan I truly remember them bending over backwards to NOT attribute it to anything to do with him being a muslim. Maybe they said he was one but they tried to make it seem that his actions had nothing to do with that. Obviously I don't watch or listen to alot of Fox News
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 10:30 pm | Edited by: Mark Beef
 
notice I said "stress him being a muslim"
as in "add emphasis to"
Posted: Jan 12, 2011 11:54 pm
 
@Mark - Fair enough. I truly haven't stumbled upon random people saying this online, and thought we were talking about mass media. Some of my actual friends have been hyperbolic IRL and on the facespaces because they are generally angry at the right for myriad reasons (rightly so) and love to bullshit and hear themselves talk (as do I). I live in the state that overwhelmingly elected a fake eye doctor frat boy with a hard-on for Alex Jones, whose supporters, in light of overwhelming video evidence to the contrary, contend that one of their own did not stomp on a woman's head at a public event with numerous witnesses, and still argue till they're blue in the face over the fact that she was asking for it (she was from MoveOn; she had a posterboard), that it was a "step," not a "stomp," and that her head and neck were actually her shoulder. All just a big misunderstanding, you see. I escort women to doctor's appointments b/c the harassers have grown increasingly intimidating and violent (FBI is actually charging one, go figure!) These people are fucking scary and have been getting progressively scarier over the last few years. So maybe I'm not as smart as I think I am. Maybe I do have a vested self-interest in what politicians and "journalists" release into discourse, and maybe I do think they need to take ownership of what their words mean. I'm not one really given to hysterics or over-simplification of a world that is beautiful and complex, but I do admit that I am more scared now than when planes hit buildings when I was 22. I love people. I love life. I love the world. I am a truly shitty asshole sometimes, but really, deep down, I just want everyone to be okay, and it seems progressively less and less okay.

@Greg - I've taken no disrespect from you or anyone else on this page discussing this topic, and certainly hope that I have shown no disrespect to anyone else. If I have, I apologize. Does one have to be specifically linked to a named group to be considered a terrorist, though? I'm thinking of Scott Roeder in particular, b/c my memory of that happening is still so vivid. He wasn't formally involved w/ Operation Rescue. He acted alone. He was politically motivated.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 3:49 am
 
I agree but I think the reason it's getting progressively less and less okay is the very spirit that lies behind people getting hyperbolic and angry. I don't care how right anyone thinks they are the minute they begin acting in that regard they are no better then the people they're mad at.

And it really saddens me that people don't get that. Of course the other side of me just wants humanity to die off and let a new species take over as master. Maybe they will not repeat our mistakes
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 9:17 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
I live in the state that overwhelmingly elected a fake eye doctor frat boy with a hard-on for Alex Jones

I hate Rand Paul from the bottom of my heart...and sure as hell didn't vote for him....but I also know Jack Conway personaly, and I've got say he's your typical Saint X jock as well....'not the sharpest knife in the shed' let me just say that, and as much as I like him and his Dad.....he bungled the end of his campaign and that's why that fucking fascist beat him out.

Why none of your friends ever talk to me period is a mystery....I can distinguish rediculous conservative propoganda from rediculous liberal propoganda....I'm liberal, but propoganda of any kind is counter productive....stick to the facts, they're much more convincing.

And yeah I'm an asshole I know...big deal....I tolerate all sorts of assholes....I don't know why so many people like the smell of thier own shit so much, that they can't tolerate assholes like I do....in fact most folks in this fucking redneck state are assholes and think they're fucking hospitable southerners...my ass.

But, I'm proud of people who escort people to thier doctors appointments...I was actually going to do that, but then the girl organizing it flaked out on me....I don't know why, maybe because I'm slandered right and left up and down...a guys not allowed to be righteous awesome motherfucker around here I guess.....oh well, I can live with chow mein.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 9:29 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Sure Mitch McConnell is a Saint X alumn also....but everyone know that if he's not realy gay, he practically is....and I would never vote for that scum bag, but the idea of a gay kid at Saint X is about as endearing as it gets...that would be about the only reason I can think of to support him.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 9:40 am | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
I don't care how right anyone thinks they are the minute they begin acting in that regard they are no better then the people they're mad at.

I've never really bought that line of reasoning, but I do see where your coming from and know a whole lot of people agree with you.

I also know Jack Conway personaly, and I've got say he's your typical Saint X jock as well

Yes. I've met Sen. Dreamboat a few times too, and he is indeed just as privileged as St. Paul II. I think he's been a pretty competent AG. He lost b/c he turned into a Mongiardo-sort centrist after the primary, and his supporters and opponents alike saw right through it. Everyone wants to be Bill Clinton, and sometimes you have to just be yourself.

Why none of your friends ever talk to me period is a mystery

Who gives a shit? What that has to do with the Giffords shooting or politics in general, I don't know. And I suspect if you gave it about thirty seconds of clear introspection, it would not be a mystery at all.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 10:55 am
 
No, I haven't met him a few times...I know him...he might ignore me in a hallway or something....but his dad was a medical lawyer, he's a medical lawyer, and happen to work for my boss......and as you know my uncle is an elected district judge, and my other uncle defends all the death row inmates in Frankfort. I KNOW JACK CONWAY...I have his personal cell number, I could prank him right now.....but his campaign turned out exactly like I sort of expected/feared....oh well.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 10:57 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Trust me, I'm not the one who struggles with issues of "clear introspection" do you realy want to go down this road?


It's more like everything else in this community...you get a big circle jerk going, and the one guy who says "keep you fucking hands off my dick" is scorned and ignored and put in lame bullshit circumstances untill they can't take it anymore and have to go John Wayne on some folks asses.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:16 pm
 
I have his personal cell number, I could prank him right now.....

Never mind that I could do this just as easily - who the fuck cares? I thought we were talking about his campaign for U.S. Senate, not who "knows, knows" him vs. who merely "knows" him.

do you realy want to go down this road?

No, I don't. Which is why I wish you would stick to the topic at hand rather than bringing up personal bullshit that is years old. Next.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:42 pm
 
Well my implied point was maybe they should run canidates based on ideology rather than having such a cynical view of down-home common folks, to think they can win an election with "sex-appeal"...

My other point is that Conway is pretty much a dumb jock....nice guy....dumb jock.....who made some fatal election mistakes at the end of his campaign.

His folks also failed to realize that the rest of Kentucky isn't predominantly catholic the way louisville is...even predominently catholic Owensboro operates more like a baptist town in the bible belt....so shit like cussing at church functions doesn't float well. Rediculous and dumb......so we get another insane crook in charge.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:44 pm
 
..and you could prank his assistant...I could prank the man himself and his family.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:45 pm
 
Hey, you boys are having quite the session here! Speaking of sessions, cum on by anytime and have one with us! Right here at Stall No. 3, Minneapolis Airport Men's Room. It'll be a tight fit, but I have a wide stance! Doris loves you!
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:52 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Untill 6 years ago any one of us could have egged Ann Northrup house and car....why nobody did beats the hell out of me.....I would have liked to burn an edifice of George W in her front yard....and shot it multiple times with my legel semi-automatic handgun.


Only thing is, she only kept that house to maintain residence in Kentucky...just like all bullshit congressmen....none of those rich criminal fucks realy live in the states they represent.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 12:57 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Sen. Larry Craig, I don't come to you...you come to me. That's how it works...and if you don't bring a free lunch for me and 20 of my associates don't waste your (or ours) time.

Oh yeah, you can also blow one of my associates...I'm a busy man with no time for gay felatio. Maybe when I'm busted for bribing nigerians I'll have time in jail...but untill then you'll have to blow one of my staff.
Posted: Jan 13, 2011 6:44 pm
 
I blame it on the NIGGERS
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 9:24 am | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
Fanning the flames of paranoia: A psychiatrist wonders how a culture of Birthers and Truthers feeds the delusions of people like Jared Loughner

The title and subhead are rather sensational, but I thought this was a very thoughtful article about mental health and its possible impact on Laughner's actions.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 9:41 am
 
This whole thing about making people feel guilty for questioning their corrupt government is fucking bullshit....

Don't fan the flames of paranoia, it has a negative influence on the young and mentaly ill, and we don't want another blonde, pretty, defenseless, congress women shot.

I call BULLSHIT.....we should all be very fucking paranoid about our government.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 9:49 am
 
Terri, you're actually providing motive for why some government entity may have wanted to encourage what happened in Arizona.

Have you ever seen the Manchurian Canidate? I recommend you check it out because that shit realy does happen. The original with Frank Sinatra, that they had to withdraw from theatres because of the JFK assasination is much better than the remake with Denzel Washington, but they're both pretty good.

Something else that you might find interesting is that a classmate of mine and the silent moderator of this forum, was actually the lead interrogator at Abu Ghraib, eventhough he was just a private. His name was Damian Corsetti (not sure about the spelling)...he was one of my best friends, and reports said that alot of the prisoners actually liked him because he gave them books to read, one in specifically Joseph Hellers "Catch-22"...

But that's a rather inconsiquential piece of trivia for you....but it helps drive home why I believe people need to pay attention to this shit....but then again me and the silent moderator of this forum come from CIA country.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:10 am | Edited by: Razor A Go Go
 
There is a critical difference b/w paranoia and skepticism. One is fueled by fear, anxiety, and irrationality. The other relies upon knowledge, questioning, and rationality. Taken to its extreme, paranoia requites a certainty that skepticism doesn't. This is why that I feel that paranoia - actual paranoia - is ultimately not beneficial.

And your opinions are not new to me.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:19 am
 
Everything you just posted sounds like simple semantics to me.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:26 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
More about the Manchurian Canidate...it had only been in theatres for one week, when JFK was shot and killed. They said they took it out of theatre's because Sinatra and he were such good friends, Frankie couldn't bare being associated with the movie....so it never saw the light of day again untill about 9 years ago when it came out on DVD.

Check out the movie...that explenation is starting to seem kind of bogus to me....I'm starting to think it's more likely that the feds. didn't want a movie like that filling people in on some of their top secret Cold War special ops.

Also, people are no more paranoid now than they were 50 years ago....exchange "terrorism" for "communism"....go check out the movie culture of those times...I recommend The Day The Earth Stood Still which will be on AMC this week (with limited commercial interruptions) or Invasion of the Body Snatchers....

Do you realy think people are more paranoid now, than when we new for a fact that Russia had a nuclear missle pointed at us.

We let the son of one of those Cold War assholes become Commander and Chief.....and guess what, "new boss was same as the old boss."

Maintaining power and complaicancy through paranoia and fear.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:28 am
 
excuse all of my mispellings....everyone knows I consider myself 'a writer not an editor'...
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:35 am
 
It's just time folks wise up, and start holding the rich accountable for thier actions....that's the only jist I can derive from the world today....and if it takes special "legit" charity fund to raise money for the lawyers, or a few truck loads of illegaly obtained M-16's bought on the U.S. black market....I'm all for it.

In fact, remember that VICE news episode when they went to the Afghani gun market? The real reason the U.S. were probably trying to shut it down was because our own U.S. gun runners want the fucking jihad buying guns from us....not the hand crafted custom made shit they could get in their own country......we want our enemies to have the same fucking chinese made weapons that we have.....that's how you orchestrate a WWF smack down.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:43 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
...a bogus, fake, WWF smack down......it can all be explained in terms of professional wrestling....that's why I'm going to joine the Jesse Ventura for President campaign one day....I trust a former biker a hell of alot more than some rich fucking Yale grad......that's if he's not assasinated first.

I don't see eye to eye on everything with Ventura, but at least he's not letting all the bullshit that went down in the past presidency be forgotten....

Hell maybe it was a Pakistan gun market, I can't remember....didn't know anybody involved in that controversy.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 12:02 pm
 
I'm not trying to kill this thread, but I feel strongly about the effect Rupert Murdoch has on political discourse in this country....and there is no political party that wants to be considered "mainstream" that doesn't have to play ball with him.

Right now people are saying that the climate of political paranoia is effecting the kids (heaven forbid) and the mentaly ill.

Well again consider the political climate of 50 years ago, when kids were having to do nuclear bomb drills....and half of America had bomb shelters, and there were public drills of how to evacuate folks into the public bomb shelters.

Times realy haven't changed that much....

I don't have much sympathy for kids today honestly...I grew up at the tail end of the cold war, and spent three years across a shallow peninsula from Manuel Noriega's headquarters....at holloween kids from the barrio would walk across the peninsula to trick or treat. I've seen Noriega face to face...as a second grader...as he road through my neighborhood on a tank waving a machete. Who was always on T.V. threatening to take back Panama from the Americans, again waving around a fucking machete. We didn't leave untill 4 months before the official start of the Panama Invasion...and then I got to see my neighborhood on ABC turned into a combat zone.

Then we spent 6 months living in a hotel room waiting for post housing, my parents were on the verge of getting a divorce, and we wound up in a house way out in boonies, 4 acres from one of Drew Thornton's (of The Bluegrass Conspiracy) training checkpoints....where I got to watch planes land and take off, and mostly just push out duffelbags when low flying...only on weekends out of county police cars along with black cars, would show up and they'd have artillery practice all day...we had to play indoors on those days. Then our closest, nicest neighbor was mysteriously shot in the head...and then his oldest son was killed in the Lexington Comair crash who conspiracy theorist think was a hit on that gun smuggling organization, or a killing off of people they couldn't trust....one or the other.

Then from their it was off to D.C., which at that time was highly publicized as "The Murder Capitol of The World, the Pentagon, and inside the beltway politics, and Dessert Storm......not to mention always having to worry about your dad being deployed.


When I say, "whoever might be keeping tabs" on the places I've lived...I do mean the government...even though I pose no real threat to anyone. Besides my Dad has cancer and my Mom has Alzheimers, so fuck any fed who has a bone to pic with me.

I've got no sympathy for the kids and the mentaly ill...they can cope with the paranoia just like Americans have coped with paranoia for the past 5 generations.

I want honesty and I want the fucking truth...and an end to KGB style mass murder.......realy the Bourne Identity series is what made this kid open fire in a crowd....realy? What the fuck is the world coming to, when people buy into a line of crap like that.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 12:15 pm
 
Fanning the flames of paranoia: A
this was an interesting article. it mostly discussed the lack of knowledge surrounding paranoia as mental illness and how to address it.
i have found myself feeling at a loss as to how to respond to a friend who has expressed truly paranoid symptoms over the years.
i found it to be true that
"Generally, they don't come in hoping to lessen their delusions, which can be wholly convincing to them."

=(
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 12:39 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Oh yeah, one last thing....I got to watch the U.S. military instigate the fucking Panama invasion, granted from a childs perspective.....but we're the ones that put that coke fiend in power, when we killed his boss with a bomb in a tape recorder on an airplane.

We also exagerated the facts to justify military action. I haven't researched it but probbably to take control of the drug trade.

I'm not paranoid I'm a fucking a realist.....basing my observations on life-learned lessons.

And I'll tell you something else, there are thousands of Vietnam Vets out there who went into Vietcong camps only to find U.S. issue rations and weapons....and they're doing the same fucking thing.

There is a shit storm on the horizon.....Me and most everyone else are trying to keep it in rational perspective, but given the political climate it's getting harder and harder.....don't fuck with Vietnam Vets man...which reminds me, I need to catch up on the John Wheeler episode.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 12:41 pm
 
you could have bombarded Loughner 24/7 with facts and truth and I'm not sure that would have helped

sometimes chaos rules and shit happens and you can't always explain it
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 1:24 pm
 
'a writer not an editor'

in that case you should look for one, blabbermouth.
not that you're not entertaining however....
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 2:10 pm
 
Okay, who wants to be the appointed White Panther editor, who edits my Goner posts? I'll get you high. I'll tickle you everywhere.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 3:49 pm
 
is that before or after editing the posts?
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 3:59 pm
 
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 6:24 pm
 
niggers.
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 6:31 pm
 
are love
Posted: Jan 14, 2011 10:44 pm
 
I own that last poets record...
Posted: Jan 15, 2011 5:45 am
 
Weird thread
Posted: Jan 15, 2011 8:06 am
 
I bitched out a right-winger the other day at work since conservative media outlets were using this tragedy to demonize potheads. I had him cornered. He was scared. Then he tried to get off subject, "The Dems are gonna raise taxes 66% in Chicago." "They wanna regulate everything." Blah Blah Blah. Whatever.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 9:38 am
 
Okay, who wants to be the appointed White Panther editor, who edits my Goner posts? I'll get you high. I'll tickle you everywhere.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 9:39 am
 
what the fuck...my profile has been hacked...I won't tickle anyone.

I did not post that.....cheap.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 10:03 am
 
Okay, changed my password...I blame the KGB.

I saw a clip of an interview with Cheney that aired on Good Morning America this morning....

He talks about this mechanical apperatus he has to strap around his body that keeps his heart pumping.

He was also sitting in front of a duck decoy. Who can make this shit up? Has there ever been a better villain? His heart is a machine....jesus.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 11:19 am
 
He just needs a monocle and a cigarette holder.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 1:57 pm
 
using this tragedy to demonize potheads.

OK, now I'm angry! That's the LAST STRAW! How dare they demonize, uh, potheads ... uh ....
what was I talking about?
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 1:58 pm
 
He just needs a monocle and a cigarette holder.

was that a Hitler mustache he's sporting now?
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 2:14 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
He just needs a monocle and a cigarette holder

was that a Hitler mustache he's sporting now

He was dressed alot like the asshole preps in Revenge of The Nerds....
turtlneck, sports coat, boat shoes...you know what I mean.

The funny thing is his heart apperatus still had wires sticking out of his shirt....if it wasn't real life, it would seem like some shit from Austen Powers.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 2:21 pm
 
Can't find any video yet, but this gives you the rediculous play by play:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dick-cheney-decision-heart-transplant/s tory?id=12634952
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 3:26 pm
 


from 2009.

Just like we saved the lives of Nazi war criminals who botched thier last-minute suicides, we realy need to keep Cheney alive, so we can make him clean toilets and execute him.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 8:47 pm
 
He just needs a monocle and a cigarette holder.

Mmm hmm.
Posted: Jan 18, 2011 10:25 pm
 
what was I talking about?


Oh shit... uh I know..um no... wait......................don't tell me........
Posted: Jan 19, 2011 9:14 am
 
Whoever hacked into my profile...I got it narrowed down to 4 people I guess....I admire you for taking the initiative to become the official White Panther editor, but I did say "appointed"...so just fess up and I'll get you high, and you can start ghost writing for me next week. I do retain the rights to my name.
Posted: Jan 19, 2011 11:13 am
 
I hadn't heard of several of these "isolated incidents." Timeline via digby:

-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroying America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

-- December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear "dirty bomb" in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

-- January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

-- February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

-- April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

-- April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

-- May 2009: A "sovereign citizen" named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

-- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

-- February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one "domestic terrorism" too.)

-- March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

-- March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

-- May 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

-- May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

-- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

-- July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

-- September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year--old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the "Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden" in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.
Posted: Jan 19, 2011 4:53 pm
 
Tom Tomorrow nails it, as usual
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 9:00 am
 
I never have understood why the hell sporting goods stores sell handguns...what do you hunt with a handgun?
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 11:21 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Actually that was a facetious question...I know why sporting goods stores sell handguns, and it's not for target practice. One reason is simply because they can and there is a large public market for handguns. The other, bigger reason, is because any schmoe can open a sporting goods store...which protect government agencies like the police from any gun related legal action.

Let me explain:
Sporting good stores supply the handguns to government agencies, the police hold contracts with them, and the stores hold contracts with Smith&Wesson.

Because any idiot can open a sporting goods store, and because they can order hundreds of weapons at a time going relatively unnoticed, is why Sporting Goods stores make the perfect cover for gun runners.

Also ever since the bank robbery in California from the late 70's happened; the one where the robbers had M16's and took out like 19 cops with handguns. There has been a yearly police weapons swap in most states, "to keep the police current with the most up to date weoponry". The is where the department orders an M16 for every person in the departmant via a sporting goods store. Most of the time they don't even give the policeman ammo for it. They just issue it to them and say they'll give them ammo in event of an emergency. Then a year goes by and they take back last years M16 and handgun in exchange for the latest model. What happens to the weapons that got returned? Well it just depends, they're usually sold to the highest overseas governmental bidder...but that's for the runners to decide. :)

If you wonder why the NRA is so powerful, this is why. Not because Americans are a bunch of gun nuts, that's what they want you to believe.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 11:40 am
 
Keep in mind this corporate scam is all in the name of "National Security"...and anti-terrorism.

That is the real reason why no one wants to label the incidents Razor mentions as "domestic-terrorism"....any why it's impossible to regulate guns in the United States....no one wants to draw attention to the system we've had in place since Eisenhower.

One thing that helps protect the U.S. is that, since the end of the Cold War, we control the weapons trade...legal and illegal....it was designed this way. In the name of Cold War politics....with the end of the Cold War they needed a new reason to justify thier existence and survive...not only survive but to thrive...."middle eastern terrorism" has filled that void.

Unfortunately the only way to compete with them is by playing thier game with "lawyers, guns, and money."
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 11:47 am
 
You know they say John Lennon was killed because of his association with the White Panthers.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 11:54 am
 
First of that bank heist was in 1997 not the 70's, and the police were not so much out gunned, as there were dozens of cops around. The real problem was body armour and a complete lack of fear of dying. Police, and any government agency for that matter DO Not get M-16's, they more than anything use M-4 with selective fire, that they buy directly from Colt or Armilite, etc. Police depts. do not just go to Academy Sports or Wal-Mart to buy "M-16's". Tell Alex Jones and Jesse hello from the FEMA camp.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 8:21 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Sean Payton, you're wrong bud...the incident I'm talking about was the late 70's ask an older relative who stays up on that stuff..or if necessary I'll track down the specifics for you...but most older folks from that background remember it...times were simpler back then.

Also, Police are isued M-16's...you can only buy the semi-automatic version at sporting goods stores....also the way I know this is a fact is because I know a few cops and revservists who have a similar arrangement as the cops...lets leave it at that.

So yeah, go do some more research bud.

Anyway back to the punk rock...

"Whatever happened too Leon Trotsky? He got an icepick it made his ears burn."

http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Documents/Assassination%20Manual.html
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 8:25 pm
 
M-16's are alot of fun...oh yeah the semi-automatic version is an m14 I believe.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 8:31 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
I'm sorry the AR-15 is the semi-automatic version of the m-16.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 8:38 pm
 
Sean what you're talking about is the incident that got hollow-point bullets banned...I remember when that happened...what I'm talking about happened when we were still babies.
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 9:14 pm
 
I can't find any info on the net about the bank robbery that killed so many police...it was like 11 police...but then again I can't find much information about most heists in the U.S. involving machine guns or mafia...bad P.R. you know...forget about finding info about the government gun swaps. But just ask around...it's not an obscure fact of life.

But how many times did you see Bugs Bunny hold up a bank with a tommy gun? It's not anything new.

By the way, all the officials who said the Italian Mafia were dead back in the 90's...were lying:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70J3N220110121?feedType=RSS&feed Name=domesticNews
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 9:32 pm
 
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 9:39 pm
 
This is going to irritate the hell out of me...but here's an interesting article with a clue...it says that police started using kevlar in 1975 and talks about how many police have been killed per decade since the 60's...
It also says 50% of police deaths were do to guns, I would have estimated higher.

http://social.jrank.org/pages/1331/Law-Enforcement-Deaths-Police-Offic ers.html
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 10:19 pm
 
I'm snowed in by the way. Kevlar was invented in the mid-70's and field tested by the police. I'm not a fan of most folks circular logic, so I don't want to sway anyone with it either.

I also can't find any information on United States bloodiest police massacre's....but I have, however, been researching 70's counterculture paramilitary groups like the Symbianese Liberation Army, and also The Weather Underground, and I can't find proof of them killing many people at all.

This is sort of disturbing however, it says that most of the guns used in the recent Mexican Drug War are obtained in Texas. It's on a law-enforcement website. Mostly from a "country store."

http://www.lineofduty.com/the-blotter/110093-rpt-tx-biggest-gun-source -for-mex-drug-wars

If I can't find proof of the 70's police massacre in Cali on the web, then we'll just disregard it for now...but I can find proof of the gun swap in various literature on the web, and also where the guns wind up...but I don't know if I can find it explained as succinctly as I put it earlier today...
Posted: Jan 20, 2011 11:38 pm
 
This is sort of disturbing however, it says that most of the guns used in the recent Mexican Drug War are obtained in Texas. It's on a law-enforcement website. Mostly from a "country store."

It's much easier to get guns in the US than in "lawless' Mexico.
Posted: Jan 21, 2011 1:36 pm
 
the SLA and the Weathermen didn't kill many people at all.. Weathermen had 1 cop in a bombing and 2 more and a Brinks guard died in a robbery.

The SLA have two school officials and 1 bank customer under their belts.

dollars to doughnuts I would bet you that the statistics about firearm related deaths and just the rise of cops killed in the line of duty includes suicides

as for the differences between the M14, M16, and AR15 all have automatic versions and semi automatic versions. The automatic versions available to law enforcement and the military and semi to the public. The real differences were the AR stood for Armalite, Colt purchased the rights to the AR-15 from ArmaLite and changed the name to the M16 and currently uses that designation (AR15) only for semi-automatic versions of the rifle. The M14 was an earlier weapon based on the M1 but updated and made to be an American selective fire automatic rifle firing 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) ammunition.
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 8:54 am
 
I was expecting more of a backlash to all the crap I posted on here....some of it is border line.

But it's also close enough to reality to make it very disturbing.

Guns are very unregulated, and most small government is ruled by the good ol' boy system, and most big government is owned by big business and shrouded in secrecy. Guns and handguns in particular, are very unregulated.

I'm not realy counter-culture material..but I did have a flashback this weekend...it lasted about 20 minutes....I was driving my car and had to pull over and let my friend drive. We pulled up next to what I'm told was a normal looking police car....but what I saw was a police 4x4 pickup truck with a man inside smoking a big cigar and wearing a cowboy hat....he drove back by and gave us the once over.
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 11:52 am
 
You know they say John Lennon was killed because of his association with the White Panthers.

You know they say Sidney Poitier was a blind man....and LBJ was a Soviet Jew.
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 1:35 pm
 
Let's not forget, the handgun was the first assembly line product. a true watershed moment for the newly industrializing USA!

in short, guns 'r us!
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 8:52 pm
 
the truth finally revealed

http://cache.abovethelaw.com/uploads/2011/01/Riches-v-Loughner.pdf

of course someone from Kentucky is the one revealing the truth
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 10:47 pm
 
And he will be released in 2012. Woo!
Posted: Jan 27, 2011 8:04 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
 
Interesting because yesterday I was researching this guy who is wanted by the FBI in Kentucky for cyber crimes. I guess he's wanted for helping folks steal cable?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/william-charles-rath/view


Julian Assange is a CIA plant. I wanted to root for the guy, but then I started researching him and that's the conclusion I came too. Many others were already aware of it. He'll probbably get away scottfree.
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