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Goner Message Board / ???? / Oh, sure, we'll still be there, but...
Posted: Aug 18, 2010 6:11 pm
The last of the U.S. combat forces are leaving Iraq right now.
Posted: Aug 18, 2010 7:03 pm
Mission accomplished? Good news anyway.
Posted: Aug 18, 2010 8:01 pm
it seems iraq will be the first solidly CORPORATE gov't in the world. i'll be the iraqis will turn over what's left of that country to any solid and uncorrupted foundation resembling a governmet, whether it be corporate contractors or what have you. the US has been running the show for the past 10 years and even amidst the chaos, has been the only thing remotely resembling a gov't. transferring that power to an NGO would just shove iraq right into an economic spotlight rather than waiting for the US to "re-build". this shit is going to get WAY out of hand. let's party!
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 12:14 am
yeah, we pull out our troops and replace them with "private security contractors" as well as a force of 50k+ american troops who will not "usually"
be "leading combat operations", that and an embassy the size of a city...
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 12:32 am
August 18, 2010 "HNN" -- with $549 billion requested for basic military expenditures and another $159 billion requested for U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—the record $708 billion military spending called for by the Obama administration for fiscal 2011 will be nearly equivalent to the military spending of all other nations in the world combined. When it comes to military appropriations, the U.S. government already spends about seven times as much as China, thirteen times as much as Russia, and seventy-three times as much as Iran.

Is this really necessary?

With more than half of U.S. government discretionary spending going to feed the Pentagon, we should not be surprised that—in America, at least—it is no longer considered feasible to use public resources to feed the hungry, heal the sick, or house the homeless.


Afghanistan was dubbed 'Obama's War' last night after it was revealed that as many American soldiers have died in the conflict during his presidency as during George Bush's entire time in office.

According to the latest death tally, 575 U.S. troops have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the 20 months since Barack Obama took office in January last year.

That is the same number of fatalities the U.S. military suffered under Mr Bush, who launched the Afghan invasion nine years ago in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks.

With his White House honeymoon well and truly over, Mr Obama is no longer able to blame his country's travails on the previous administration.
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 5:44 am
shell game...the only thing that actually changed was the names of things

don't be ruh tarded
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 8:08 am
i'll be the iraqis will turn over what's left of that country to any solid and uncorrupted foundation resembling a governmet, whether it be corporate contractors or what have you

China they pick up and run with everything we mangle and fuck up via niave idealism...and they usually score big....film, analog tape, the Panama Canal, etc.
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 12:15 pm
China they pick up and run with everything

including the entire African continent, and all its resources...
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 1:19 pm
Just glad my brother doesn't have to go on a third tour.
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 3:24 pm
Just glad my brother doesn't have to go on a third tour

Yeah, your brothers done more than his share.

we were talking about this at work today. One guy said, "there's 50,000 families that'll tell you it's not over yet".
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 3:25 pm
If Bush hadn't lied...
Posted: Aug 19, 2010 6:11 pm
the bush excuse is beyond tired, its been two years now, its obamas war.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 2:15 am
...But while the remaining 50,000 troops will no longer have a formal combat mission after September 1, they will be well-armed and possibly coming under fire as they join in manhunts for Al-Qaeda figures or other extremists.

"I don't think anybody has declared the end of the war as far as I know," Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell told MSNBC.

"Counter-terrorism will still be part of their mission," said Morrell, referring to the fight against militant networks.

The US troops "will continue to conduct partnered counter-terrorism operations" in an effort "to help Iraqi security forces maintain pressure on the extremist networks and protect the citizens of Iraq," Major Christopher Perrine told AFP.

Even as the Pentagon draws down the force in Iraq, US special operations command -- which focuses on counter-terrorist operations -- will stay at the same level of 4,500 troops.

The US military presence, while dramatically altered, may continue long after the end of 2011, when all American forces are supposed to depart under a security agreement.

Top military leaders in both countries acknowledge Iraq still may need help from the US armed forces after 2011.

Iraq's top military officer told AFP last week that American forces may be needed for another decade.

To make up for a scaled back US military force, Washington meanwhile plans to rely on large numbers of private security contractors, US officials said Thursday.

The State Department said it will double the number of contractors it employs in Iraq to about 7,000.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 8:03 am
The death toll in Afghanistan is so much more justifiable than in Iraq. Obama is just trying to put the U.S. back on the "right" track in the middle east. The longer we have troops in combat anywhere the faster the death toll will grow. That's the whole point of the Vietnam Memorial. I just wish someone would tell Obama that BinLaden was a CIA operative all along, and we will never catch him.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 8:06 am
9-11 was a shock and awe campaign on the American people, and we went straight for the richest country in the middle-east...hmm.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 8:45 am
I mean consider the alternative to war in the middle-east. We bring the troops home and downscale the military, imagine how that's going to affect an already over-saturated job market.

We can't exactly take all of our jobs back from China...we're China's #1 bitch.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
the bush excuse is beyond tired, its been two years now, its obamas war.
Brad, you're a smart guy. You know a president can't just end a war at the drop of a hat.
Bush started it, and now someone else has to finish it.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 9:05 am | Edited by: Tiger Blinds
The first casualty of the Iraq War was the controversial and mysterious death of a CIA operative. Supposedly he was interogating some guys at an AlQuida camp and held a gun to the dudes head and caused an uprising. All they realy know for sure however, is that all of the early skirmishes involed CIA and SIS operatives. They can't deny it because the BBC accidentaly aired footage. They also admit to making fake Bin Laden and Jihad tapes that U.S. news aired as the real thing for several weeks, however the purpose of this is uncertain.

In hind site, the motivation for 9/11 is pretty fucking obvious...to squelch all opposition to a middle-east invasion and facilitate desperate measures to prevent a seemingly inevitable economic depression. 9/11 was sanctioned mass murder....if it makes me sound like a crack pot, fuck it, at least I'm not another niave onlooker. Arguing about trite baby boomer bullshit.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 9:22 am
The internet bubble was the start of a new era, now special intelligence is the name of the game...and economics and government are very a-moral things.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 11:02 am
I really hope the end of this war is for real. The US needs to get out of the nation building business and allow countries to rise and fall on their own.

I just wish someone would tell Obama that BinLaden was a CIA operative all along, and we will never catch him.

Clinton and Bush both made sure he wasn't taken out when CIA sniper teams and the US military had him in the cross hairs on two separate occasions. They would have had him killed or imprisoned if he was of no further value. They kept him around to be the boogieman. A National Security State always needs a boogieman.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 12:53 pm
BUSH LIED to bring us into a war. Cheney literally is a war-profiteer. The day after we invaded, Cheney's former company was given billions of dollars of no-bid contracts.

The war was based on Bush's lie, or incompetence if you want to believe his lie that there was "bad intelligence". The "bad intelligence" (specifically about the Iraqi purchase of centrifuge parts so that they could hurry-up their nuke production) was refuted on the front page of the NY Times. Bush still had his shill, Condi Rice, talk about "mushroom clouds".

As commander-in-chief, Bush committed treason. It's not too late to jail him for this --- there is no statute of limitations on treason.

JAIL THE TRAITORS! Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Rice. Lock 'em up and throw away the key.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 2:30 pm
I really hope the end of this war is for real. The US needs to get out of the nation building business and allow countries to rise and fall on their own.

Impossible...by the very nature of capitolism the top dogs have to control the markets of all the smaller dogs....we stick our noses in everyone elses business...China is calling all the shots at this point though, we're just pawns.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 2:44 pm | Edited by: Tiger Blinds
Start researching older CIA conspiracies and compare it with the facts of 9-11...they used alot of the same businesses fronts, methodology, and intelligence infrastructure....that's the shit that got me suspicous.

Now it's just a matter of people making a personal choice to either accept a ludicrous mainstream account of what happened, or digging a little deeper....but there's all kinds of planted bullshit to throw you off. If you have any kind of common sense however, you'll be shocked and appalled by what you uncover.

Brad, I wish you'd devote as much energy towards 9-11 conspiracy as you do to researching and expounding on conservative pugnants.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 3:06 pm
i have spent as much time on 9/11 conspiracies and my opinion is they are tas de merde. have a french friend translate...
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 3:07 pm
Brad, you're a smart guy. You know a president can't just end a war at the drop of a hat.
Bush started it, and now someone else has to finish it.

yes, i am a smart guy. i saw when obama was campaigning that his plan was to do a fake pullout from iraq while increasing the war in afghanistan, which is exactly what he said, and exactly what he is doing. there will be no vietnam moment where we are pulling our last soldier off the roof of the embassy because there is no plan for us to leave iraq, ever.
Posted: Aug 20, 2010 3:08 pm
also, afghanistan is the longest war in united states history, and we are fighting less than a hundred old men in the mountains? give me a fucking break. either we leave now or later, the only difference will be how many people obama and future presidents let die first.
Posted: Aug 22, 2010 1:56 am
August 20, 2010

In less than two years, the United States has suffered more combat deaths in Afghanistan under President Barack Obama than it did during the two-term presidency of George W. Bush.

The latest casualty figures show 577 American soldiers have died in the war from January 20, 2009, the date of Obama's inauguration, until now. The U.S. suffered 575 deaths from October 2001 to January 19, 2009, according to figures computed by Robert Naiman, of Just Foreign Policy from figures provided by icasualties.org.

Three U.S. deaths on August 17 put the Obama total ahead of the Bush total.


The least credible human in America is a president or a general guaranteeing imminent victory, plus withdrawal of troops from the quagmire of the day.

The rhetorical embroidery decorating this pledge changes little from decade to decade. In 1970, President Richard Nixon declared that the Vietnam War was proceeding so auspiciously that he was planning to pull out 150,000 American troops. The South Vietnamese forces, he asserted, were now of sufficient military competence to carry the brunt of the fighting.

At the start of this month, addressing cadets at West Point military academy on August 2, 2010, the president said that the war in Iraq had been won: "This is what success looks like." Departing US troops will leave behind a "democratic" and "sovereign" Iraq, one that is now "no haven" for "the kind of violent extremists who attacked America on 9/11."

It's a bizarre definition of success and furthermore the U.S. State Department, also General Odierno and others feels it necessary to emphasize that US involvement in Iraq is far from over.

The Obama administration has said the US would begin to withdraw troops from Afghanistan in July 2011. But last Sunday on NBC's Meet the Press, Petraeus, now in command of US and coalition troops in Afghanistan, said the withdrawal date was "conditions-based" and that it was possible it could be pushed back further.

"Conditions-based", cynically but accurately defined, means what Obama can tout as "mission accomplished". That's a tough sell for the foreseeable future, since there's zero evidence that the US-led coalition is achieving anything that can be sold as "success" in Afghanistan.

The only reliable definition of "success" in any of the United States' martial enterprises is the effective destruction in economic, social and environmental terms of the target country. That certainly happened in Iraq and is a process far advanced in Afghanistan.


Friday, August 20, 2010

"Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today challenged the notion that removing 'combat brigades' but leaving 50,000 U.S. troops in Iraq constitutes an end to combat operations, let alone an end to the war," a press release sent to RAW STORY on Thursday stated.

"Who is in charge of our operations in Iraq , now? George Orwell? A war based on lies continues to be a war based on lies. Today, we have a war that is not a war, with combat troops who are not combat troops. In 2003, President Bush said ' Mission Accomplished ' . In 2010, the White House says combat operations are over in Iraq , but will leave 50,000 troops, many of whom will inevitably be involved in combat-related activities.

"Just seven days ago, General Babaker Shawkat Zebari, the commander of Iraq 's military, said that Iraq 's security forces will not be trained and ready to take over security for another 10 years.

"This is not the end of the war; this is simply a new stage in the campaign to lull the American people into accepting an open-ended presence in Iraq.
"The cost of the wars has been estimated to be around $1 million per soldier per year. Each year the troop levels stay at 50,000 means another $50 billion is wasted.
Posted: Aug 22, 2010 4:43 am | Edited by: bradx
its obvious the number was picked on purpose

i havent seen any persuasive argument backed by evidence that proves any 9-11 conspiracy involving the upper echelons of the united states government. certainly individuals or foreign governments might have had foreknowledge in a general sense, but i do not believe in any far reaching conspiracy. it is true also that we are responsible for creating bin laden and al qaeda, but that was as mujahadeen to fight the russians, and the consequences were unforseeable in my opinion. the so called experts calling for an independent 9/11 investigation are easily discredited. i do, however, personally support an independent 9/11 investigation. the fact that the events of 9/11 benefited the neocons and that they took full advantage of it to advance their globalist agenda is beyond doubt, to me.

some folks on here over time have mistaken my conservatism for being republican when nothing could be further from the truth! i am a paleoconservative and fiscal conservative. i believe in balancing the budget and smaller government, and the biggest cut we could and should make is to our orwellian named "defense" spending...
Posted: Aug 23, 2010 1:24 am
General Ray Odierno told CNN's "State of the Union" that the ability of the Iraqi police and army to keep a lid on the violence was improving, but refused to rule out a return to US combat missions if things went sour.

The commander said security advances meant the country was on target to be able to handle its own security after 2011 when the remaining US troops are due to be withdrawn.

Despite the advances in building up Iraq's security apparatus, Odierno conceded there were scenarios where the US military might have to step back in and resume combat operations.

Iraq's top military officer warned earlier this month that American forces may be needed in the conflict-wracked nation for a further decade.


The US military and the Obama administration loudly trumpeted the withdrawal of the "last combat brigade" from Iraq last week, but news reports suggest the move is purely semantic: The combat brigades are still there, but under a different name.

In Sunday's Washington Post, Kenneth M. Pollack argues that the claim there are no more US combat troops in Iraq is "not even close."

Of the roughly 50,000 American military personnel who remain in Iraq, the majority are still combat troops -- they're just named something else. The major units still in Iraq will no longer be called "brigade combat teams" and instead will be called "advisory and assistance brigades." But a rose by any other name is still a rose, and the differences in brigade structure and personnel are minimal.

American troops in Iraq will still go into harm's way. American pilots will still fly combat missions in support of Iraqi ground forces. And American special forces will still face off against Iraqi terrorist groups in high-intensity operations.

The US military presence in Iraq may continue long after the end of 2011, when all American forces are supposed to depart under a security agreement.

Top military leaders in both countries acknowledge Iraq still may need help from the US armed forces after 2011.

"We're obviously open to that discussion," US Defense Secretary Robert Gates said last week. "But that initiative will have to come from the Iraqis."

Iraq's top military officer told AFP last week that American forces may be needed for another decade.

A future accord with Iraq might include continued air patrols with US F-16s, as officials admit Baghdad's air force is a long way from being able to fend off attacks from fighter jets.

To make up for a scaled back US military force, Washington meanwhile plans to rely on large numbers of private security contractors, US officials said Thursday.

The State Department said it will double the number of contractors it employs in Iraq...
Posted: Aug 23, 2010 8:46 am
Brad X you will like this, take a break from your own hot air and breathe.

I'm not saying that Jesse Ventura was a good governor or anything...but he was a navy seal and an expert in explosives.

I could post all kinds of shit here and realy put my neck out there...fuuuuck thaaaat.

Posted: Aug 23, 2010 9:11 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Brad, I think the stage is set for us to literaly become "police of the world"...basically because our economy now almost depends on it. Which means the war profiteers got what they wanted, which was a never ending war. We all want the troops to come home, the realistic question that Obama is dealing with is "how?." If you want to sway anybody come up with some solutions to that dillema.
Posted: Aug 23, 2010 9:15 am
Chaney wanted exactly what the Russians had in the middle east in the 80's....the entire thing was "instigated" at the very least by the U.S. goverment, no one can deny that, and only the niave are willing to leave it at that.
Posted: Aug 23, 2010 12:03 pm
and only the niave are willing to leave it at that.

fucking James Cameron and his stupid 3d smurfs
Posted: Aug 23, 2010 5:27 pm
i have found the truth about 9/11, and it is that conspiracy theorists are idiots. the burden of proof is on the truthers to prove their ridiculous claims, something they have never accomplished. bush is an idiot and the government too corrupt and inept to pull off anything of this magnitude. you know how many people would have to have been involved in a cover up this big? the problem is any idiot with a 4th grade education and internet access now thinks they are qualified to deduce conspiracies even though the evidence proven by independent laboratories and studies easily disproves most of them. the fact is that there were very thorough investigations by every civil engineering and structural engineering association, but i guess they, me, and anyone else who questions 9/11 "truth" is part of the conspiracy!!! the conspiracy "experts" are seriously lacking in credibility if anyone cares to do the homework. go watch loose change again, a very compelling "documentary" made by a couple stupid arrogant college kids. quote some steven jones, the guy who has published academic papers proving the existence of the mormon God. the whole 9/11 conspiracy movement is based around selling DVDs, asking rhetorical questions, and what-ifs. no, no, maybe they all have such massive intelligence they (and you!) have outwitted a massive conspiracy! shit, you must really hate bush, now you believe he is capable of magic! a missile hit the pentagon and somehow hundreds of unrelated eyewitnesses saw a plane! amazing. he also magically wired every floor of the WTC without attracting attention and primed the charges, to drop each tower in a perfectly timed collapse. magically those charges didnt go off when the planes hit and fires raged. bush magically found the tens of thousands of co conspirators who would be needed and managed to keep their mouths shut, forever. bush, cheney, and rumsfeld were all knowing and all seeing yet couldnt manage to fake some WMD to justify our invasion of iraq? this group of magical conspirators must have been pretending to be completely inept in response to hurricane katrina. if they did it to justify an invasion of iraq why didnt they cook up some fake evidence implicating saddam hussein in the attacks? the omnipotence of the bush regime is the cowards fantasy. the "truth" movement is based on a fairy tale. why do i bother responding to this idiocy?

i see your willie nelson and jesse ventura video, and raise you a bill clinton
9/11 Truthers are idiots

also, screw loose change
heres a few more you may enjoy:
Flight 77 wreckage (from the landing gear) at the Pentagon.
Debris from the Twin Towers falling onto WTC7.

Debunking 9/11 Myths – FAQ – Conspiracy Theories (Popular Mechanics)
Posted: Aug 24, 2010 12:37 pm
its obamas war.
that the Bush Regime started.
Posted: Aug 24, 2010 5:26 pm
its obamas war.
that the Bush Regime started.

no, more like ronald reagan.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 1:52 am
who started it is a moot point. its irrelevant.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:25 am
Keep your head buried in the dirt like an ostrich you cowardly fat man.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:40 am
"A conservative is a man who is too cowardly to fight, and too fat to run" Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 5:55 pm
wow, personal insults from an anonymous internet sock puppet! well, i never!!! have fun playing your totally irrelevant music noone gives a shit about and never will. try providing some evidence, it will do far more to advance your argument than calling me fat. you are the liberal, you have the high ground, for challenging your liberal beliefs i guess i deserve personal insults. as soon as someone goes from debating to childish personal insults i lose all respect for that person and their argument.

Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain.

-Winston Churchill
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 5:57 pm
call me a coward, how many times have you been out on the street protesting the wars? how many times have you went out recently and volunteered your time and money to help a worthy charity? when do you go out and entertain the elderly at the senior center? i am a good person and i dedicate my time and energy in real life to causes and beliefs i support. you dont know me so if you want to sit hiding behind a computer screen talking shit you would never say to my face without losing a handful of teeth be my guest. you want to see a coward, look in the fucking mirror sometime...
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:31 pm
pardon me you fascist piece of shit...I'm french....we find fat people like you offensive in and of themselves....go suck on richard simons cock instead of eating that next ding dong, ding dong.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:35 pm
to much information and it just might get you killed you know....but try this on for size fat boy....it probably was a small group that pulled all that shit off, one clue is because their editing skills fucking sucked....the false tapes, false airplanes, bullshit demolition, that's the real reason all Hollywood types think it's bullshit. It's fucking hard to find a graphic designer that doesn't have hippie ties somewhere.....
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:43 pm
In shock and awe it doesn't really matter how believable you are....you can piss on someones head and tell them you're saving them from heat stroke, except you might just be telling the truth (google it).....all that really matters is that you bombard the people with enough fucked up shit that they let you do whatever the fuck you want in dazed desperation....that's how shock and awe works..... if someone figures it out, you've already performed crowd control...so it doesn't really fucking matter, besides you're never going to jail if there's no hard evidence.

so fuck off with your political bullshit Brad X.

If you think you're somebody because of your backwards belief system, you might want to trade your Gov. cheese in...cuz boy you're to cowardly to fight, and way to fucking fat to run.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 8:56 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
I'm sorry Brad, I know it's just a glands problem...that's also why you stink like a pig, just like your politics.
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 11:11 pm
Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain.
Show me a man without a clue and i'll show you a man knocking on your door with a pizza for you

-Winston Churchill[/i]
Posted: Aug 25, 2010 11:50 pm
fuck you both.
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 12:59 pm
you guys could heal your differences by praying together, if they ever build that mosque at Ground Zero...
OR by sponsoring some lap dances together at the strip bar across the street from there

just sayin'
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 5:26 pm
i support the ground zero mosque 100% as it is neither a mosque nor being built at ground zero. if it were al qaeda building a giant middle finger at the twin towers sight i might feel differently...
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 6:07 pm
i mean, what could be more conservative than the right to build a house of worship on your own private property? not only do i think the government should not interfere, i do not believe they have the RIGHT to interfere.
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 6:21 pm
come on, hot stuff. there has to be a recruiting station in the same strip mall your pizza joint was is located. all you have to do is decide: infantry. cavalry. armor. artillery. come on! DO IT!
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 6:26 pm
i am 100% against our current wars and standing army. the military industrial complex is far too large and important a part of our national economy. we need to move away from our only exports being wars and the tools to make war, and start manufacturing the goods we need at home on a day to day basis in america again. tax the shit out of garbage coming in from china and elsewhere.
Posted: Aug 26, 2010 6:30 pm
no recruiter there anyways, but there is a weight watchers! more fat jokes, please.
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 11:07 am
Members of the Teabag Party are subhuman's to me...switch to diet dog food.
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 11:09 am
It's realy that I care about you and don't want you to have a heart attack or have to piss on your head to nuetrilize your body temp. and prevent heat stroke.

But I only insult you for your own good.
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 1:35 pm
Strippers do not discriminate between fat guys & bearded medieval throwbacks, and make plenty of money from "conservatives" too!
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 3:19 pm
more fat jokes, please.

aw, man, i'm just messin' with your mind.
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 3:28 pm
Strippers do not discriminate between fat guys & bearded medieval throwbacks, and make plenty of money from "conservatives" too!

Yeah they love fat guys....they don't mind charging them more, and most fat guys are desperate enough to pay more.

Picking on conservative fat guys is every rational persons civic duty.
Posted: Aug 27, 2010 6:53 pm
republican president in 2012, and thats a fact. suck it, libs.
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 1:37 am
According to a new Quinnipiac University poll , Americans would rather vote for an unnamed Republican than Obama in 2012 by a 39% to 36% margin.

American voters said 48% to 40% that Obama does not deserve reelection in 2012.

the gulf oil spill was his katrina. afghanistan is now obamas war, and he has already murdered more people there than bush managed to do in two terms. yes, little barry soetoro broke it, so he bought it. now he owns it. his defense (war) budget is more than bush's ever was. his economic plan is a failure, the bailout of the big banks cost hundreds of trillions while regular americans are losing their jobs in record numbers. i guess thats his version of trickle down economics, his handouts to the banksters have trickled down to become soup kitchens, bread lines, and obamaville tent cities of homeless people springing up all over the nation.

obamas stupidity will cost the demoncrats their majority in congress. its no surprise as the chimp simply isnt qualified to lead anything, all he has to do is look good in a suit and parrot the lines his wall street masters feed him off a teleprompter.

hell, osambo might not even make it two terms, i wouldnt be surprised to see his kenyan ass resign. the only changes obama has brought is being the first non american citizen, and the first arab muslim to hold the office of president. comrade obama is anti american, a new world order citizen first and foremost. at least george w bush was a patriot.

i read somewhere someone said of obama: "He's playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers." well, that sounds like a sure way to lose a game of checkers! all he is doing is maintaining the corporate status quo for a couple more years while trying to keep the populace from revolting. its a fools game and guarantees and hard line right wing president and congress in the near future, wait and see...

alot of grass roots work went into getting obama elected. people were excited, things were going to change. now people are disenfranchised, and two years from now the demorat base will be downright apathetic. either obama is bought and paid for, or he is just an ineffectual wimp.

what has he accomplished? wait until the mandated medical insurance plan kicks in, watch your insurance rates skyrocket and the quality of care go straight down the shitter. i think he took an oath to preserve protect and defend the corrupt corporations and banksters, not the constitution and the american people.

obama was a chance for the liberal tree hugging scum to prove that their way was better, and guess what? he failed, fucking miserably. he, like america, has lost the moral high ground. as far as wars and his foreign policy, its not any different than the last 60 years or more. we have an embassy in iraq the size of the fucking vatican and 50,000 troops still on the ground there indefinitely. mission accomplished, we won, its another vietnam, an unwinnable war, just like they wanted.

obama single handedly laid waste to our economy and destroyed our country. he is one of the worst presidents, ever. mccain would have been an infinitely better president, at least he is not a god damned commie arab. those are facts, so deal with it. maybe bush was a crook, if so its up to the dems and obama to prosecute him, but of course they wont because they are every bit as guilty and crooked as he might have been, and the last thing demoncrat cockroaches want is a bright light shined on them.

fuck all you condescending know everything holier than thou liberal commie pieces of shit! palin in '12! enjoy it!!!
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 3:11 am
Multinational corporations are allowed to operate with virtually no oversight or regulation. Corporate cash is allowed to influence elections, and thus, the behavior of our elected representatives. After the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision, which will allow unlimited corporate donations to campaigns, the problem is only going to get worse. To get elected, and to stay in power, politicians will have to cater more and more to their corporate donors.


In an August 22 Washington Post article entitled "Five myths about the Iraq troop withdrawal", Kenneth M Pollack unravels the first "myth": "As of this month, the United States no longer has combat troops in Iraq." Pollack claims this idea is "not even close" because "roughly 50,000 American military personnel remain in Iraq, and the majority are still combat troops -- they're just named something else. The major units still in Iraq will no longer be called "brigade combat teams" and instead will be called "advisory and assistance brigades". But a rose by any other name is still a rose, and the differences in brigade structure and personnel are minimal.

So what if the US army downgrades its military presence in Iraq and re-labels over 50,000 remaining soldiers? Will the US military now stop chasing after perceived terrorist threats? Will it concede an inch of its unchallenged control over Iraqi skies? Will it relinquish power over the country's self-serving political elite?

The State Department will now supervise future violence in Iraq, which is likely to increase in coming months due to the ongoing political standoff and heightened sectarian divisions. An attack blamed on al-Qaeda in an Iraqi army recruitment center on August 17 claimed 61 lives and wounded many. "Iraqi officials say July saw the deaths of more than 500 people, including 396 civilians, making it the deadliest month for more than two years," reported Robert Tait in Radio Free Europe.

"State Department spokesman P J Crowley said [a] plan would bring to some 7,000 the total security contractors employed by the government in Iraq, where since the 2003 US invasion private security firms have often been accused of acting above the law," according to Reuters.


With jobs at the forefront of every voter's mind, President Barack Obama and key members of his administration have been publicly promoting new trade policies to make sure that U.S. companies don't send manufacturing jobs overseas. It's a politically and economically sound strategy—but unfortunately, it's all talk. Behind the scenes, the administration is still pushing for the same failed Bush-era trade policies that sent millions of American jobs abroad and created global imbalances that helped fuel the financial crisis.


'US-led troops killed Afghan children' 27 Aug 2010 Police in Afghanistan have confirmed that the US-led warplanes are to blame for the killing of six Afghan children in the country's volatile east. Police said on Friday that the children were collecting scrap metal in the mountain of eastern Kunar Province when a US-led plane dropped bombs on the area on Thursday. "In the bombardment six children, aged six to 12, were killed. Another child was injured," AFP quoted a regional police commander as saying.


somewhere between 600,000 and 1 million Iraqi civilians have been killed. If we were to build a memorial wall with the names of all these dead Iraqis (as we should), it wwould stretch from one end of Washington DC to the other. No one has an accurate estimation of the Iraqi injured. In comparison about 4400 U.S. soldiers have been killed and 32,000 injured. Over 2 million Iraqis have been displaced from their homes. The unemployment rate in Iraq, depending on the area, ranges as high as 60%. Over 20% of Iraqi children are malnourished. The number of Iraqis now living in slum conditions is about 53% of the population. An estimated 40% of all Iraq professionals have fled the country. Electricity and water services are intermittent. Health care facilities are wrecked and services are inadequate. Educational services have been so disrupted that many of Iraq's wartime generation are semi-literate. And these facts speak only to the U.S. invasion and occupation. It is to be remembered that the invasion followed upon years of sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of additional Iraqis while crippling the country's economy.


US President Barack Obama campaigned on ending the wars and ending Neocon policies in the Middle East. But, Neocon Frederick Kagan has been brought onboard to work with General David Petraeus in Afghanistan.

In US policy under Bush administrated it was demonstrated that buying off the population was both more effective and cheaper than bombing them, argued Hartmann.

Kagen will likely bring increased military operations and more troops to Afghanistan.

Hartmann said he is concerned the idea that there is always a military solution will come back to get the United States.

"I'm very concerned that Afghanistan is going to be Obama's Vietnam," said Hartmann.

The United States needs to do more to help Afghans rebuild the civil and business infrastructure of the country in order to see success.


It seems only yesterday that Americans, or those interested in their civil liberties, were shocked that the Bush regime so flagrantly violated the FISA law against spying on American citizens without a warrant. A federal judge serving on the FISA court even resigned in protest to the illegality of the spying.

Nothing was done about it. "National security" placed the president and executive branch above the law of the land. Civil libertarians worried that the US government was freeing its power from the constraints of law, but no one else seemed to care.

Encouraged by its success in breaking the law, the executive branch early this year announced that the Obama regime has given itself the right to murder Americans abroad if such Americans are considered a "threat." "Threat" was not defined and, thus, a death sentence would be issued by a subjective decision of an unaccountable official.

There was hardly a peep out of the public or the media. Americans and the media were content for the government to summarily execute traitors and turncoats, and who better to identify traitors and turncoats than the government with all its spy programs.
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 2:23 pm
the bush excuse is beyond tired, its been two years now, its obamas war.

I'm not saying he has been all that helpful but blaming Obama is like blaming the fireman over the arsonist. Also, if you admittedly hate all presidents because they are all the same then your opinion carries a little less weight
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 3:38 pm
george w bush was the best president this country has ever had.
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 4:39 pm
shut the fuck up, fatty
Posted: Aug 28, 2010 5:28 pm | Edited by: bradx
the only question is if he was a great president or the greatest president. bush got rid of saddam hussein, protected us from any terrorist attacks after 9/11 by giving us the right to preemptively attack. shit, he had to clean up the mess clinton left for him! maybe if clinton had been fighting terrorism instead of worrying about getting his dick sucked we wouldnt have been attacked on 9/11. george w bush is an outstanding human being who made this country immeasurably safer and more prosperous than his predecessors. he did a great job cleaning up the mess left behind by the imbecile from arkansas. it is people who disrespect the great george w bush that are the real terrorists! just as lincoln outlawed slavery, bush outlawed terrorism. if george w bush was behind 9/11 then he could have easily planted WMD to justify the invasion of iraq, even an idiot could see that. however, he didnt, which proves he and his staff were honest and had integrity. he cut taxes, and foiled dozens of terrorist plots due to the excellent protections he put into place. not to mention he was a two term president. the arab in the white house now is the second coming of jimmy carter, a one term president if there ever was one, determined to make love to the terrorists and take our country straight to hell!!! george w bush is a man of faith who remains true to his values, a good man, a likable man. its too bad he couldnt be elected for a third term. his skill and political genius cannot be overstated.

now go smoke the rest of your pot (roll a fatty)and watch loose change again, hippy scum. i am sure you dont have a problem with fat piece of shit michael moore handing you a load of shit on dvd and calling it a documentary, so dont hate me for pointing out facts like george w bush being the greatest president in history.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 9:05 am
Brad X, as a person I kind of like you, it's your politics that ruin it for everyone.

In fact I would like to put on a show in my town for The Onions....I think The Onions is one of the best band names of all time, because your head looks like an onion and you smell like an onion...the only name that could be more appropriate is "The Stale Piss Conservatives"....

You can't sleep at my house however, I don't like the smell of piss.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 2:34 pm
USA #1

You can't sleep at my house however, I don't like the smell of piss.
thats cool, i dont like the smell of patchouli either, ya tree hugging hippy. feeble mindled limp wristed grass groper. go back to the commune, liberal ecocentric egocentric tofu chomping flower licker. godless spineless america hating terrorist loving demorat scum like you make me fucking sick! irrational flag burning tax hiking flip flopping dumbocrat. idealistic conspiracy loving libtard, have another drink of the daily kos kool aid you uninformed annoying piece of pond scum.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 2:35 pm
what you need is to pay attention to rush limbaugh and glenn beck, they are geniuses and you are an idiot. college boy???
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 9:46 pm
Brad you live the most bohemian life of all of us, what with your focusing on art all the time and milking the system to subsidize your pizza job. Why do you want to muk it up by being just like one of the million fucking rednecks on welfare I see every day, who sits around on a plastic donut and bitches about the political left like a big spoiled turd with mandingo disease.... diarrhea.

A big fucking pinched off turd floating around the cosmic toilet shitting on what's already shit.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 9:50 pm
....yourself....that's what I meant by shitting on already shit....exit stage left.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 9:59 pm
snagglepuss quote...your welcome Ledis.
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 10:03 pm
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 10:55 pm
Why do you want to muk it up by being just like one of the million fucking rednecks on welfare I see every day, who sits around on a plastic donut and bitches about the political left like a big spoiled turd with mandingo disease....

i'm doing it entirely for your entertainment!
Posted: Aug 30, 2010 10:57 pm
fuck obama that boy isnt even american, fuck his kenyan muslim ass.

you need to watch some glenn beck, that mother fucker would set you straight, college boy.

rush limbaugh is a great american hero.

i can hardly imagine what a paradise we would all be living in right now if mccain was president.

now where the fuck is my welfare check???

niggers suck!!!
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 8:27 am
i'm doing it entirely for your entertainment!

I have been savoring this.

I'm feeling inspired, here's an excerpt from the Rubaiyat:

Look not above, there is no answer there;
Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer;
Near is as near to God as any Far,
And Here is just the same deceit as There.

And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret, and denied it me?--
Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

"Did God set grapes a-growing, do you think,
And at the same time make it sin to drink?
Give thanks to Him who foreordained it thus--
Surely He loves to hear the glasses clink!"
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 1:25 pm
he's desperate enough to go back to the n-word.
good work gentlemen.

now give us a break already. it's like a bear and a bee hive.
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 2:23 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
No dice....when it comes to politics Brad is a relentless fucktard...why should anyone show him mercy? Besides this is making me feel like I'm 20 again.
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 3:49 pm
Jesus first miracle was turning water into wine for a party!

ham the nigger was a mother fucker and God cursed all his descendants...

show me mercy??? i love this shit, and slipped right into asshole mode perfectly. you are asking for it, and i am happy to oblige. i will now reward myself for this great success with an ice cold beer!
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 3:52 pm
God Bless America (USA #1) and George W Bush, patriot and great american hero who made it possible for me to spread the TRUTH!!! greatest nation in the UNIVERSE!!!

shit, glenn beck is on, gotta go turn on fox news, will chat later ;)
Posted: Aug 31, 2010 3:53 pm
oh, and i have the power of rush limbaugh on my side and together with the Lord we shall vanquish the iniquity of our evil enemies, the liberal tree hugging greenie terrorist loving demorat pond scum!!! go suck the dog.
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 12:11 am
thanks to george bush saddam hussein is now 6 feet under like he belongs.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_americ a/trust_on_issues

Trust on Issues
Voters Now Trust Republicans More On All 10 Key Issues

Thursday, August 26, 2010

Voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on all 10 of the important issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

The GOP has consistently been trusted on most issues for months now, but in July they held the lead on only nine of the key issues.

Republicans lead Democrats 47% to 39% on the economy, which remains the most important issue to voters. Those numbers are nearly identical to those found in June. Republicans have held the advantage on the economy since May of last year.

(CNSNews.com) - In every week of his presidency until now, Barack Obama has enjoyed a majority approval rating in the Gallup Poll from people earning less than $2,000 per month. But that changed in the Gallup survey conducted from Aug. 2-8, when only 49 percent of Americans in that income bracket said they approve of the job Obama is doing.

This marks the first time since Obama was inaugurated on January 20, 2009, when Americans in all four of the income brackets reported in Gallup's weekly survey of presidential approval gave Obama less than 50 percent approval.


While conservatism in America grows stronger by the day, the forces of liberalism are growing increasingly weaker and divided.

Against this backdrop, the president's approval ratings have been sliding dramatically all summer, with the latest Rasmussen Daily Presidential Tracking Poll of US voters dropping to minus 22 points, the lowest point so far for Barack Obama since taking office. While just 24 per cent of American voters strongly approve of the president's job performance, almost twice that number, 46 per cent, strongly disapprove. According to Rasmussen, 65 per cent of voters believe the United States is going down the wrong track, including 70 per cent of independents.

The RealClearPolitics average of polls now has President Obama at over 50 per cent disapproval, a remarkably high figure for a president just 18 months into his first term. Strikingly, the latest USA Today/Gallup survey has the President on just 41 per cent approval, with 53 per cent disapproving.


Obama is no friend, no one-dimensional democrat party hack. He may be a simple-minded man, way over his head running a large government bureaucracy, but Obama is also at the heart of a vast organization of Liberals and Socialists who want nothing less than the complete destruction of traditional family values, Capitalism and Christianity. He is a man with no moral compass, no faith, no spiritual depth. He is crude, rude and completely out of control. For the sake of our children and America's future, we must have Obama deported. Please do your part and click on one of our links today! God bless you and God bless Governor Sarah Palin!

thank god glenn beck is restoring honor to america. obummer is a liar who has done exactly NOTHING good for the country. that arab fucker is a one term president. pretty college black boy in a monkey suit who can read a teleprompter. big fucking deal. november is going to be a bloodbath for you liberal loving college boy shits. there is a storm brewing that is going to wash away alot of the shit, grab yer ankles and get ready for it...

president palin, believe it. at this point even the garbage man could beat obama. now all you libs go drink your tea and hug a fucking tree...
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 7:44 am
Oh I'm the asshole am I?

They say Stalin was realy only 5'4. It seems like all the fat and ugly fascists like you are coping with short man complex.

He probbably smelled like piss also, but no one can confirm or deny that.
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 12:14 pm
BradX, you should stop drinking again. Amber would probably be a lot happier too. Or has she moved on?
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 2:52 pm
10 years, motherfucker! she aint going nowhere...
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 12:37 am
ps: i voted for obama, idiots. thanks for all the insults though, its great to have identified another piece of shit know it all prick. go fuck yourselves.
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:07 am
its great to have identified another piece of shit know it all prick

When did this become a popularity contest? I'm a dick everyone already knows that.

i voted for obama, idiots

good job that's a start.
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 1:47 pm
its great to have identified another piece of shit

get off the booze o abusive one
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 3:10 pm
Wow, how did I miss this thread?

Bradx rules.
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 3:57 pm
thanks. now i can retire the n word and my faux republican rants for another year until there are more noobs and morons without any reading comprehension to fuck with.

Posted: Sep 2, 2010 4:57 pm
faux republican rants

So this is some kind of public service?
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 6:37 pm
no, its entertainment for myself. whatever anyone else gets from it is secondary...
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 9:48 pm
wow dissing my reading comprehension realy hurst becaus I oviously care so much about it.

Guess what I just ate a piece of cake with cream cheese icing on it and it was fucking good.
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 9:55 pm
cool story, brah.
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 10:45 pm
bradx...because I know how much you and the ladies like hairy men:

this is porno innocent children:

Posted: Sep 2, 2010 11:12 pm
super cool link, brah. anyways, you ignorant piece of fuck, here is an article you may find interesting, i remember you blathering about bad editing in relation to a 9.11 conspiracy...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/did-nist-edit-wtc-7-footage-to-hide-eviden ce-of-implosion.html
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:03 am
"The President is rightly celebrating that less American troops are in harm's way," Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) said Tuesday night. "I join the President in that celebration."

"We need to dispense with the fiction, though, that this announcement in any way diminishes our financial or resource commitment to Iraq," he continued.

"Fifty thousand 'non-combat' troops will remain, and that number does not include the State Department's plan to double the amount of mercenaries through next year--whose only loyalty is to the highest bidder--and fortify numerous 'enduring presence posts' throughout the country. This fortification will include the recent State Department request for Black Hawk helicopters, mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles, and advanced surveillance systems.

Such a substantial reliance on mercenaries amounts to a privatization of war."
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:38 am
That's very interesting Brad. Like I said, I think the 9/11 conspiracy is going to be exposed in our lifetime....Obama is trying to privatize the war, and who can blame him....it's the only middle ground available. He realizes our economy is dependent on it right now, but he doesn't want the American tax payer funding it...he's trying to take our government out of the mess they created, which is bullshit, but it's not bullshit that he or any of us created, it was the last administration. You kind of got to feel bad for the guy.....it's like how Noam Chomsky says that if you judged every president since FDR by the standards put forth by the Nuremberg Trials, they would all be found guilty and Jimmy Carter made the most human rights violations.....that's because Jimmy Carter was trying to get the country out of Vietnam, and also prevent more American casualities, but he was also dealing with a bad economy, so he told the military to just do napalm air raids....which created more collateral damage than ever before...more women and children died as a result of the U.S. than ever before...but he was just trying to maintain a shakey political balance.....

Obama is handling things pretty fucking well all things considered, at least he's been focused on trying to fix hard problems, instead of just creating hard problems.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:43 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Interestingly most of those air raids in the latter part of Nam were flown out of Florida....they would fly out of Florida in the morning, drop some fucking Napalm somewhere in Vietnam, and then be home in time to eat dinner with thier families.....there's so much about war people don't understand, and it's why the talking heads on T.V. are so fucking annoying.

I mean consider that most of the places where these acts of terrorism have been occuring have mostly been in very controlled environments...airports, military bases.....NYC was mass chaos, shock and awe...the pentagon was very controlled....that right there should make your spidey sense tingle.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 8:53 am
You have to consider the potential for a cover up whenever something happens....if something happens at say Ft.Hood, where I was born, it's very easy to cover it up or distort the facts....there's not alot of public eye witnesses, it's all military folks.....or like in a subway, if a subway car blows up, who the fuck is in the tunnel to see what realy happened?

It's much harder to cover up a bomb on a public bus, where no telling who is watching out their house window...in that case it needs to be mass chaos.

Mostly what I learned as a kid in Panama is how the media distorts facts.....I saw what happened in real life, specific events, and how the local military news covered it, and then heard from relatives how it was being portrayed on U.S. news...when we came back to the States five months before the invasion we saw for ourselves how it was being portrayed on American T.V.

It was very fucked up.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 9:27 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
It may have taken a day and a half...they would refuel in the air...but most of the planes dropping napalm were out of Florida in the later years....
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 9:43 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
I'm still trying to varify why the flights were coming out of Florida....apparently because the Napalm was being manufactured in Florida and the bombs were so touchy and dangerous that they opted to fly them straight from the factory to the site.....plus I'm sure they were firebombing people that much at some point...they probbably couldn't build the bombs fast enough.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:23 pm
Just watched all the video footage in that link you posted Brad...it is very disturbing isn't it?

It gets even more disturbing when you research the history of the CIA....I started randomly researching certain buildings from my past.....

Lets just say they've been blowing up buildings and airplanes for many many years.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:32 pm
Check it out:


It gets way creepier....
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:45 pm
This is a more explicit explanation:

http://tbwb.blogspot.com/2006/11/day-that-shook-baileys-crossroads.htm l

You should get into this stuff Brad, it's where the stories are at, and the sad reality. Don't be afraid to face the truth.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 12:58 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
Most people don't realize how important that building complex is to military strategy....it was the closest building between 4 military strong holds: 2 army bases, a navy base, and a marines base, also strategic in relation to Dulles and Washington Airports....also the Pentagon.

FBI and CIA and any other top secret department operate extensively out of the Skyline buildings.

Many disturbing parallel's not only with 9-11 but many, many special ops...
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:16 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
As long as we're airing alot of conspiracy truths, I might as well mention some other facts about D.C. politics.

The headquarters for the Boeing Company, makers of Boeing jets, is 1200 Wilson Blvd, Arlington, VA 22209....it's also known as The Key Building, which is one of the main, if not most important CIA buildings for covert operations.

Built by the same company as the Skyline Building.....
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:32 pm
U.S. Senator Abraham Ribicoff was a secret investor in the Charles E. Smith company, who built both of those buildings....

That's the primary conspiracy behing The Solomon Scandals, which sounds like it is largely based on long standing beltway gossip.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:38 pm
Interestingly, the current primary investor of the Charles E. Smith Commercial Realty Company is the best friend of the guy who owned the Twin Towers and WC7....Larry Silverstein....they often suck eachother off at hoity toighty functions.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 3:46 pm
Here they already do a good job explaining that crooked business relationship....it's pretty much the norm, I mean Eisenhower had appointed one of the main Ford Motors investors to head the new Department of Transportation....this kind of shit goes on all the time..


But what I'm saying is that the facts to 9-11 are right on the surface....someone is going to break the conspiracy theory....untill then it's just something else to consider beyond how boneable Sarah Palen is not.
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 4:09 pm
You should get into this stuff Brad, it's where the stories are at, and the sad reality. Don't be afraid to face the truth.

once again, you are letting a few offhand comments i made at some point paint your picture of me. i often play sock puppet roles simply to provoke a reaction. why do you assume i am not into that stuff, or am unafraid to face the truth?

lesson #1: an instigator can rapidly change points of view because they owe allegiance to none of them...
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 5:31 pm
Hey, Tigerblinds and others, thanks for mention of the Web site for The Solomon Scandals suspense novel--I'm the author. Scandals got a great sendoff in The Washington City Paper from a Yale lit grad and was required reading in a history class at George Washington University; but I still can't get the MSM to recognize this uppity book's existence, although it's obtainable via Amazon. Yes, some real-life history did inspire Scandals. I personally broke the news about Senator Abraham Ribicoff's secret and illegal investment in the Key Building in Arlington Virginia, housing some CIA offices. And of course Skyline collapsed, killing 14 workers and injuring three dozen. When I wrote Scandals, I did not know of any CIA or FBI offices in Skyline. Tiger, I'd be curious how you found out (directly or through a friend, and can you give me contact info?). Why don't you email me offices' exact locations, and I'll try to follow this up, although, if there's a national security risk, I don't want to publish the precise locations. I'm at davidrothman@pobox.com. Thanks! David Rothman / solomonscandals.com (new post pointing back to Goner)
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 6:14 pm
wow, you google yourself once an hour or what???
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 6:36 pm
wow, you google yourself once an hour or what???

Google Alerts brah
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 6:57 pm
Hey, just standard info on the sources of the site's traffic. So anybody have the confirmable info I'm hoping for re intel agencies at Skyline? Thanks! DR / davidrothman@pobox.com
Posted: Sep 4, 2010 2:23 am
i dunno, tower blocks collapse all the time, has to do with their construction...
not every time a building collapses is it a conspiracy
Posted: Sep 4, 2010 3:30 am
Thanks, Bradx--I couldn't agree with you more. The Skyline tragedy was an accident. Conspiracy NOT, whether in a 9/11 context or otherwise. Skyline happened years before 9/11, and I won't buy this "Oh, isn't it part of a pattern?" That said, I wouldn't be surprised if intel agencies were operating out of Skyline, the reason I posted my query. Any proof of this from Tigerblinds? What's more, I'm still curious how the devil the late Sen. Ribicoff ended up in the partnership owning the Key Building, the nonSkyline building that the CIA occupied. The lease banned him, as a member of Congress, from participating; he even sat on a committee overseeing the General Services Administration, which among other things handles real estate matters for the feds. Again, however--no proof of conspiracies or of deliberate intent, although the Key Building matter is very much worthy of further examination. At the very least, Ribicoff was in a conflict through his interests in nongovernment properties controlled by the same major government contractor. Situations like Ribicoff's are small potatoes compared to D.C. crimes in recent years, but my theory is that if the Dems had been cleaner in situations like this and had reprimanded Ribicoff and similar offenders in Congress, then the Republicans wouldn't have been so shameless.
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 10:44 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Well, I'll see what I can dig up...I'm about to go on a 3 day vacation though, so I might not have anything for you untill Monday. I think if you simply look for the various names of the Skyline Complex and CIA some stuff should turn up.

I know for a fact that the CIA had been operating out of those buildings all through the 90's....I've been gone since 95, but it was common knowledge in military circles at that time. I could give you all my personal facts and sources, but it realy wouldn't hold up in any pragmatic sense. I am a pentagon brat, and I can tell you that it shouldn't be hard for you to varify special intell offices at Skyline Plaza....just through google I found many confirmed CIA businesses housed there. Just dig deeper.

If you are who you say you are, it's good to make your aquintance. You can reach me at tigerblinds@gmail.com
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 11:46 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
Also, you've probbably gathered this for yourself, but this is a webpage for rocknroll fanatics....

The CIA conspiracy stuff is just something I occupy my time with because it parallels my childhood in so many ways, frankly it scaires the shit out of me. But it's my life, my past. It has already impacted my world on so many levels, that if speaking out based on my own personal experiences on a casual rocknroll chat site makes me some sort of target, then nuts to them.

I would like to recommend some books to you. One is "Bluegrass Conspiracy", which explains the CIA gun smuggling racket in Kentucky in the 80s...it came out in 95 and much more corroborating evidence has come to light since then. For one the sporting good store they used as cover for ordering weapons, was again in hot water in 2002 when they got busted along with FedEx shipping stun guns (to stick under hostage balls during interrogations) to Syria. No shipments of anything were allowed there at that time. I myself witnessed their operations when I lived next to one of their checkpoints where they would land on an old airstrip behind my house, or push out weapons, drugs, and god knows what else. We didn't alert authorities because it was under a Ft.Campbell fly zone we constantly had helicopters and jets flying over us....they knew it was there which tells you it was sanctioned. We had FBI snooping around every now and then, and at least one attempted murder of a neighbor. If anyone needs to know where it was, it was in Herndon, Kentucky....the neighbor that someone tried to kill's son was one of the passengers on that doomed Lexington Comair flight, that Alex Constantine likes to think is connected to 9/11 and I can't dispute his claims.

So just track down the one passenger from Herndon for the location of the airstrip, and see if they will talk. They had target practice and guerilla style training there, surely most of the old hermits around there remember it...we were always told it was the KKK.

Be careful though, because the Chief of Lexington Police during that era, is now the head of Kentucky Police, I forget his exact title...thus ending the threat of state police interfering. His wife was also on the Lexington Comair flight, as was one of the employees of that sporting goods stores that was bought out by a known CIA parent company around the time it got busted shipping weapons to Syria, via a known gun runner out of Seattle.

Also, besides considering the conspiracy theories of Alex Constanine, I'd like to recommend a book I haven't read yet by a reporter out of Texas called The Mafia, CIA, and George Bush....I think it would make a good companion piece to Bluegrass Conspiracy for anybody researching the facts. The Bushes owned property in Florida with the criminals convicted in the Lexington Police Dept. Scandal, and even in the 90's people were alluding to a potential connection with the book family. Since then, 9/11 has happened and we found at that some of the hijackers were trained at airports formerly owned by "The Company"...as they liked to call themselves.

Also research the Chagra Family, who "The Company" smuggled drugs for and most likely performed hits for before they were also busted in the late 80's....Interestingly, they were the ones who framed Woody Harrelson's dad for some other previous murder, who was a mafia/cia hitman implicated in the JFK assasination. Basically all books about mafia exploits in Texas, Las Vegas, Kentucky, D.C. and Florida will probbably yield some clues and there is much hard confirmable evidence in the public domain....I think enough to prosecute some people. The links to Oliver North and Iran-Contra alone are damning.

Spend a few months researching these events and I think you'll begin to understand why your book has been roadblocked.

I'm making this public because I'm an artist, and a slacker and eventhough I have an american flag tattoo and think anyone with any sense of patriotism should be outraged by these correlations, I'm not interested in solving this mystery...or reading about the bullshit events or asshole corrupt government types, that I at least particialy blame for my very confusing and lonely childhood...

The answers are still out there...wake the town and tell the people.
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 11:50 am
Just track down the family members of the one passenger from Herndon on the Lexington Comair flight....sorry I've been doing 5 things at once.
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 11:53 am
The Bushes owned property in Florida with the criminals convicted in the Lexington Police Dept. Scandal, and even in the 90's people were alluding to a potential connection with the book family

The Bushes owned property in Florida with the criminals convicted in the Lexington Police Dept. Scandal, and even in the 90's people were alluding to a potential connection with the BUSHfamily

Posted: Sep 7, 2010 11:58 am
I apologize for my poor proofing skills....like I said I have a busy job, and this is just a casual rocknroll chat board.
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 12:18 pm
like I said I have a busy job, and this is just a casual rocknroll chat board.

Stop bullshitting already. From your office in LANGLEY, Virginia!!!
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 5:36 pm
Tigerblinds: Many thanks for further specifics. Nice to meet you, too. As noted, I'm at davidrothman@pobox.com, and you can use the word SKYLINE in the subject line when you have a chance to find out more. Best not to post exact locations of the possible CIA offices or the names of the corporate fronts on this board itself right now. No compromises of national security, please, as happened with the blowing of Valerie Plame's cover--we'll leave that to the Bushies. Of course, if the locations are already well-enough known, etc., that could be a different story.

I myself recall a Web site with the names of some CIA buildings in the D.C. area. That's how I got--for solomonscandals.com--the Google photo of the high-rise that the late Sen. Abraham Ribicoff held a stake in. I don't think that the site mentions Skyline. But that in itself doesn't mean anything. All kinds of URLs welcomed!

What I might do with your details is pass 'em on to a reporter who tracks the intel establishment and is in a better position than I am to find out the truth about Skyline and assess the national security risks associated with publication if he thinks there's a story (no CIA agent, this guy!). Remember, I was poking around in the 1970s but have moved on to other things. I'm not sure if the mere existence of intel offices at Skyline would merit a story. On the other hand, if there were irregularities associated with the lease--I haven't the slightest idea!--this could be newsy.

Last time I looked in the mirror, I saw a familiar face, so I guess I'm still who I say I am. It'll be both fun and scary if some of the high-level corruption I dreamed up for The Solomon Scandals novel turns out to be real. I will say I'm 99.999999 percent sure that the Skyline collapse itself was an accident. But that does leave open plenty of other possibilities. As I've said, I'd love to know why Ribicoff was a secret investor in, of all buildings, a CIA-occupied one. I'm also curious why the Washington dailies neglected the story even after it made the NBC Nightly News. Latecomers can go to http://www.solomonscandals.com/?p=248 for the details of the illegal investment and even see the language in the lease banning members of Congress from participating through partnerships such as the one that Abe Ribicoff was in.

David Rothman

P.S. Fascinating stuff out of Kentucky, etc. Thanks.

P.P.S. People can check out The Solomon Scandals for free through the Fairfax County (VA) Public Library system, which has five copies. I do have my fictitious narrator referring to the actual Skyline collapse and lack of serious punishment in the end for anyone involved with the construction. I don't know who's responsible even though solomonscandals.com raises questions without reaching conclusions. My task for the Scandals novel was to invent a realistic imaginary collapse, which I did with the help of two construction experts at Penn State and Clarkson University.


Tiger wrote:

Well, I'll see what I can dig up...I'm about to go on a 3 day vacation though, so I might not have anything for you untill Monday. I think if you simply look for the various names of the Skyline Complex and CIA some stuff should turn up.

I know for a fact that the CIA had been operating out of those buildings all through the 90's....I've been gone since 95, but it was common knowledge in military circles at that time. I could give you all my personal facts and sources, but it realy wouldn't hold up in any pragmatic sense. I am a pentagon brat, and I can tell you that it shouldn't be hard for you to varify special intell offices at Skyline Plaza....just through google I found many confirmed CIA businesses housed there. Just dig deeper.

If you are who you say you are, it's good to make your aquintance. You can reach me at tigerblinds@gmail.com
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 6:26 pm
Posted: Sep 7, 2010 6:54 pm
my fictitious narrator

hey, I need one of those!
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 10:22 am
Hmm...one place to start, is to consider all of the government and military offices in the Skyline Complex....I could swear I've found references to the Skyline building's cia reputation, but not the collapse, on conspiracy websites...I'll eventualy have a look around the net for it. Just go there and research the various depts. listed on the directory. Hang out there, get haircut if they still have a barbershop or a bigmac at McDonalds, and eventually you'll get a lead.

I'm not worried about blowing anyones cover, I swore no oath, and I'm nothing but a concerned U.S. citizen. At this point there are thousands of people who have more personal insight, and better proof into a conspiracy than I do.

The only info that might put my life in danger is that I know one of the locations that "the company" based out of Lexington, KY, used to transport guns and drugs and whatever...that was never disclosed to the public. Which was located about 4 acres off of Binns Mill Rd., house address in the hundreds, in Herndon, Kentucky, near Peedy, located about 3 miles from the house of Mont Dawson...father to one of the victims on the Lexington Comair flight.....which corroborates Alex Constantine's theory that many of the passengers on that doomed flight were somehow related to "The Company", 9-11, and the Bush family.

Would my testimony alone hold up in a court of law, probbably not, but if someone wants to go down there and gather eye witness accounts from people who lived there during the 80's, that might be something significant. It was to far out in the country for regular t.v. so we never saw the news. I only put 2 and 2 together this past year, and yes it is disturbing. But life goes on for now. My Dad has secrets he will take to his grave because he did take an oath, and he has more loyalty to his nation and sense of duty than anyone I've ever known. I don't want to dig to deep and bring undue attention to us...I'm just giving you my personal account of things and telling conspiracy theorists where they can begin searching if they realy want to get to the bottom of this.

My childhood is just what it is...my childhood.

As far as panama is concerned...Noriega was a coke fiend, out of his head most all of the time. He once road through my neighborhood on a tank, waving his machete around past the mosoleum of the previous presidente who the CIA killed by giving him a tape recorder with a bomb planted in it on an airplane. Anyway it was around 2:30 or 3:00 after us kids were out of school, but our before our Dad's came home, because they didn't want to instigate any real conflict....Noriega had 40 other people with him at most, and only he and a few others had machete's....which every boy in Panama gets a machete at the age of 13, everyone has them as a practical tool.

Anyway, that night the armed forces news channel reported 100 of Noriegas men running through our neighborhood....next thing you know we're getting calls from the states, telling us that ABC says 300 panamanians ran through our neighborhood with M-16s.

They have a picture in the paper, it's Noriega on top of a tank coked up waving a machete and 40 of his men tightly cropped on both sides....it also says 300.....

This corroborates alot of conspiracy theories about the Panama invasion.

If someone wants to prosecute me or kill me over this, fuck them. If they have anything to do with 9-11 killing thousands of people on American soil or any sort of cover up...they can rot in hell.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 11:36 am | Edited by: tigerblinds
As long as I'm spilling the beans I want to be as explicit as possible.

Binns Mill or Peedy may be spelled wrong, but I ran across the address recently, and it was in the low hundreds blocks, 100, 200, 300....they now have alot of white storage buildings all over the property, not sure who owns it, it's been too long...but that's all you can see from the street.

Also, as far as the Panama stuff, it was at Ft. Amador, I lived at the neighborhood closest to Torrijos' mosoleum....it was probbably 5 months before the invasion and credited with being the first domino leading up to it.

My school was Balboa Elem....now a research facility.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 11:36 am
Tigerblinds: Thanks--let me know if you find the Skyline-related specifics. I Googled around some more but have yet to locate the info. Perhaps I've overlooked something. At any rate, as I said, given the security angles, I'm not sure it's wise to reveal the precise locations just for the hell of it. When I broke the story about the CIA-occupied building in Arlington, there was a definite news angle--Ribicoff's secret and illegal investment. DR
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 12:29 pm
Well I remember a little bit more now, I was having trouble finding stuff related to Skyline at first, except for your webpage...and then I started googling all of the other names that apply to it and I found some documents on the CIA's own webpage.

In the 90's there was a large percentage of active duty military working in the Skyline building.....I assume this is still the case. It's not top secret, the impression I always got is that whatever departments that won't fit in the Pentagon, go to the Skyline building....Alot of the brass at Ft. Myers work in the Skyline building. Surely you're aware of this?
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 12:32 pm
Also, the impression I got when I read the details of the collapse is that there were already departments and businesses operating out of the Skyline building....it wasn't just construction workers who got injured. Is that accurate?
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 12:39 pm
David...if I might suggest that you get in touch with Sally Denton...I believe she works in Arizona now...but occasionaly she makes it back to Kentucky for university seminars.

She can probbably give you most of the details about the shared realestate interests the Bush family, John Y. Brown, and "The Company" shared in Florida, Texas, Central America, and Kentucky. I'm certain you'll see some parallel's....

I'm a little perplexed as to why she hasn't written another book as history has unfolded.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 12:42 pm
Coincidentaly John Y. Brown's wife, the Miss. America, was married to Robert Evans....and has a connection to the Cotton Club Murder, which people speculate shared much of the same players and mafia element.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 1:17 pm
Thanks again, Tigerblinds, but "active duty military" is not the same as "CIA." I Googled site:cia.gov skyline. No luck. Maybe you can email me the other info based on the other names. URLs? No, I don't keep up with the latest at the Skyline complex and don't know every single detail about the past, but as far as I can recall, the dead and injured were all in construction. Fascinating Kentucky stuff, etc., but it's off my path right now. David
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 2:11 pm
Well, what I'm saying is that it's common knowledge in Northern Virginia military circles that some special intel departments are in the Skyline building....google the address and see what comes up.

I mean just ask around you can't throw a rock in Northern Virginia without hitting a CIA employee.

I haven't lived in D.C. in over 15 years.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 2:17 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds

My first hit...I looked up "Skyline, Anthrax"....you've got to think outside the box man.

No I didn't read it all the way through...so no it doesn't explicitely say CIA, it does say defense department offices....it's worth looking deeper into.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 2:43 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
Here's a book about the CIA with a chapter called "7777 Leesburg Pike".

http://books.google.com/books?id=iDIEnK522TgC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=CI A,+Leesburg+Pike&source=bl&ots=wXcUSLcLtu&sig=optRSECux45Cge4Q4dFdwRsX gqk&hl=en&ei=An6OTJyxGMP7lwf9xfDIAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resn um=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=CIA%2C%20Leesburg%20Pike&f=false

not sure if this falls inside the official "Skyline Complex" but it's a safe bet that it's owned by Smith Corporations or whatever they call themselves.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 2:53 pm
Here you go: Booz-Allen Hamilton, Inc,

They're located in the Skyline Complex....research that business...you'll discover some interesting stuff.

Do you see what I'm saying?
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 2:54 pm
I'm sure the list goes on and on....just the first of many examples to be found.
Posted: Sep 13, 2010 3:01 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds

The Carlyle Group, one of the world's largest private equity funds, may soon acquire the $2 billion government contracting business of consulting giant Booz Allen Hamilton, one of the biggest suppliers of technology and personnel to the U.S. government's spy agencies. Carlyle manages more than $75 billion in assets and has bought and sold a long string of military contractors since the early 1990s. But in recent years it has significantly reduced its investments in that industry. If it goes ahead with the widely reported plan to buy Booz Allen, it will re-emerge as the owner of one of America's largest private intelligence armies.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 2:15 am
Interesting examples, Tiger, and I appreciated your research on this; but I was talking about actual CIA government offices in the Skyline complex. Nothing definite so far. Besides, both Booze Allen and Carlyle have been into many more things than CIA-related activities. Similarly Viguerie was about much more than the CIA despite the EATSCO rental. As for the anthrax-related info, which I myself saw a few days ago, that's hardly proof of actual CIA involvement. This might be an Army operation, for example. Meanwhile you can check out some actual TV footage from the Skyline collapse. I embedded the video yesterday. I wouldn't have run across it if I hadn't been poking around as part of this thread. So thanks. David
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 10:30 am
Um...the active military working in the skyline building are also working with private contractors on joint teams....now that I think about it, that's actually why they're at skyline instead of the pentagon.

I mentioned on the Fidel Castro thread, that idealy CIA opperations are privately funded with a preferance for under the table transactions.

Half of the non-profits in VA are CIA fronts. This is not bullshit.

If you don't research the intelligence Infra-structure, you're going to be a sitting duck trying to research this stuff.

Anyway, I can't get sucked into conspiracy stuff today. Talk to you later.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 11:54 am
Well I think David would prefer I e-mail him personally. I have nothing to hide. My testimony is no different than people who heard consecutive loud explosions the day of 9/11. It's my word against a ludicrous mainstream account. The only difference is that I have drawn out a possible motive, spanning 3 decades. You know what they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm just waiting for the industrious investigative reporter who will track down the realestate deeds, become famous and make millions of bucks undercovering at least the partial truth.

Have at it kids....rocknroll can save your life.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 12:44 pm
Thanks, Goners--I couldn't agree with you more. The Van Halen tragedy was an accident. Conspiracy NOT, whether in a OU812 context or otherwise. Van Halen happened years before OU812, and I won't buy this "Oh, isn't it part of a pattern?" That said, I wouldn't be surprised if intel agencies were operating out of Van Halen, the reason I posted my query. Any proof of this from Tigerblinds? What's more, I'm still curious how the devil the late Sammy Hagar ended up in the partnership owning the Valerie Bertinelli, the nonVan Halen building that Eddie occupied. The lease banned him, as a member of Montrose, from participating; he even sat on a committee overseeing the a pitiful solo career, which among other things handles real estate matters for the federalies. Again, however--no proof of conspiracies or of deliberate intent, although the Valerie Bertinelli matter is very much worthy of further examination. At the very least, Sammy Hagar was in a conflict through his interests in nongovernment properties controlled by the same major government contractor. Situations like Sammy Hagar's are small potatoes compared to Arena Rock rhymes in recent years, but my theory is that if the Fans had been cleaner in situations like this and had reprimanded Sammy Hagar and similar offenders in Arena Rock, then Sammy Hagar wouldn't have been so shameless.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 2:02 pm | Edited by: tigerblinds
Don't you have anything better to do instead of wasting our time with your fan boy shit? Van Halen are 9 out of 10 gay bears favorite bands...maybe because David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar both had such hairy chests.

"undercovering"...that's awesome.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 4:18 pm
van halen coulda been good but alex's drum sound, especially the cymbals, flat out sucks. there are some moments, hot for teacher for example, but for the most part it sounds like extremely talented dude had his halfway talented brother play drums because he is easy to boss around and willing to put up with a monumental load of bullshit.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 6:06 pm
he's a horrible drummer and i'm agreeing with brad x. fuck.
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 6:41 pm
c'mon guys, the whole band sucked. and still sucks, reunion or not.

now if Dave and Sammy had it out, in public, armed with cudgels, empty tequila bottles and maybe Stinger missiles, I may be interested.

with a side of Bertinelli, pre-diet, cheering 'em on.

now THAT's a CONSPIRACY, eh Tiger?
Posted: Sep 14, 2010 7:09 pm
now if Dave and Sammy had it out, in public, armed with cudgels, empty tequila bottles and maybe Stinger missiles, I may be interested.

Posted: Sep 14, 2010 9:00 pm
davidLeerothman: LOL. While I disagree with Tiger's conspiracy theories, I'd have loved some verifiable specifics about Skyline, via email or in public. Alas, the collapse and Ribicoff's illegal investment are history, not satire. No known Elvis connections, though. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.
Posted: Sep 15, 2010 9:37 am | Edited by: Tiger Blinds
Verifiable? Skyline is where government insterests and corporate interests converge....I have a suspicion that you don't even live in D.C.

Anyway, maybe the collapse itself was accidental, but the paper trail seems pretty damning. I mean they've got to be one of the most successfull government subcontractors of all time....I mean Crystal City is basically a glorified PX.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Arlington-to-spend-millions-re vamping-Crystal-City-93593019.html

Do you want a door that says CIA that you can knock on and Austen Powers walks out and say's "do you want to blow me baby?"

Get real man.

Also as far as Van Halen goes, I've got to say that I think the bass player was more hairier than David Lee Roth.

You all cowards with your moderate heads in the mud have officialy ruined the best Thomas Pynchon novel of all time.
Posted: Sep 15, 2010 11:35 am
No known Elvis connections, though. You may now return

c'mon dude, don't drag E. into your tin foil hat stuff. He put tin foil on the windows, true, but ...

on the other hand, was Bertinelli on a diet in reaction to E.'s fate? Did the Van Halen mansion have shag carpeting in the bathroom too?
Posted: Sep 15, 2010 11:45 am
I put memory foam under my shag rug...now it's like walking on a cloud in my own slice of heaven.
Posted: Sep 15, 2010 11:14 pm
McClatchy Newspapers
Wednesday, September 15, 2010

FALLUJAH, Iraq — U.S. and Iraqi forces raided a neighborhood in the longtime Sunni Muslim insurgent stronghold of Fallujah early Wednesday, Iraqi officials said, killing seven people in the deadliest joint operation since President Barack Obama announced the end of the American combat mission in Iraq two weeks ago.

The incident underscored how American forces remain engaged in offensive operations despite Obama's declaration that the fewer than 50,000 remaining U.S. troops would focus on advising and training the Iraqi military and police.

Iraqi police officials said that the raid, which also wounded three people, began when the U.S.-Iraqi team set off explosives around 1:30 a.m. in the Jubail neighborhood of Fallujah, about 40 miles west of Baghdad. American military helicopters supported the joint operation, according to residents.
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