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Goner Message Board / ???? / Expanding my music horizons
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 5:40 pm
 
I've been in this weird phase because I listen to classical radio all day at my new job, and I kinda like it. I come home and listen to Thelonious Monk now.

What are some recommendations for jazz, bebop, and classical music? I know that's kind of a broad range, but I really don't know where to begin.

Thanks goners!
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 6:15 pm
 
Paul Whiteman "King of Jazz"
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 6:20 pm
 
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 7:30 pm
 
-Jimmy Giuffre 3 - 'Fusion' & 'Thesis' are personal faves...
-pretty much most anything by the heavies is great : Miles, Coltrane, Dolphy, Herbie Hancock (pre-Moog & some post-Moog), Art Blakey, Mingus, Monk, Sun Ra...
-most stuff on Impulse from the 60s is worth it... ECM, Black Jazz, too...
Duke Ellington actually did some cool stuff later on in his career... 'Money Jungle' is great...
I dunno - just start buying stuff that looks good - you'll start to figure out the people you like...

also if you like Monk - check out Bud Powell...
Posted: Jan 17, 2009 7:32 pm | Edited by: cococomas
 
oh - & 'Lawrence of Newark' is pretty damn great... so's Larry Young's Blue Note stuff... stay away from his fusion band 'Fuel', though... ugh...
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 12:06 pm | Edited by: Miss Faye
 
Yeah--the heavies--I second that. Because of your post, I pulled out Miles Davis: "The Original Quintet (First Recording.)" Good stuff. Other favorites: Mingus' "Three or Four Shades of Blues," "Mingus Ah Um" for sure; Miles Davis' "Sketches of Spain" and of course the definitive "Kind of Blue." Charlie Parker; early Earl Hines. There are some awesome collections out there by these guys: Monk--"Complete Riversides;" Davis--"Complete Prestige Recordings;" if you like crazy cartoon jazz, go for Carl Stalling and Raymond Scott. I love love love Charlie Christian w/ Benny Goodman "Master Takes." You could really go anywhere with this stuff--there's so much out there. If you're into it, venture into Latin jazz. I did, but it led me more into the traditional Cuban, etc., which I prefer. Oh yeah, along the lines of the previous post, just start buying stuff. Verve will rarely lead you astray. Look at the other artists playing on the records, and check out some of their stuff.

Classical: Get Chopin's "Nocturnes" played by Artur Rubenstein (two disk set.) It's really lovely. Mozart's "Wind Concertos." Those should be a good start. I'm personally about to delve into Dvorak--that stuff is pretty nuts. I don't know much about the composer as a whole, but Barber's "Adagio for Strings" is a masterpiece.
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 12:18 pm
 
miss faye, i had no idea... cool! yeah, duke ellington and mingus are very similar and that they are both genius arrangers. you should really dig most mingus, but do some research as to what ellingon's heaviest stuff is. it might sound pedesrtian on the surface, but i gaurantee you that it isn't if you take the time to listen. alot of monk is like that too. "it's monks time" (did the monks riff on that title?) is one of those particular albums that just sounds like kind of a softer swinging bop album, but it has some of the most creative playing for it's time on there.
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 1:51 pm
 
I just reread my post. "Stuff" is apparently the word of the day. Yeesh!--and I teach English!

Daneau, I'll add that many of the big jazz names began more traditionally and evolved into something more experimental, even avant garde sometimes. I'm not sure what you prefer, but keep this in mind and don't let one record define an artist for you. If you find that you don't like something, swing to the other end of their timeline--chances are it's totally different.

I'm adding Dizzy Gillespie, Coleman Hawkins, and Sonny Rollins to the jazz recommendations. Fletcher Henderson is another one of my very favorites who I forgot to mention.

If you discover you like vocals, that's a whole other ball of wax!
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 2:32 pm
 
The library. When I became interested in jazz there were so many boxes and collections I was able to bring home and weed through that made record buying so much more informed.
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 2:48 pm
 
go through the 50's and 60's Blue Note stuff...hard to miss there...
Posted: Jan 18, 2009 3:36 pm
 
if you're looking for really good far-out stuff that doesn't fall to the cheese of fusion look to ornette, dolphy, marion brown (really under-rated), the earlier sun-ra and a really grand band of ornette players (hayden, cherry, the great ed blackwell with dewey redman) called Old and New Dreams. of course this is only one of many tangents to explore...
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 1:13 pm
 
Masterpieces by Ellington on CBS has some great examples of "black classical music".

There's an Art Tatum solo record that's recorded live in some Hollywood guy's living room --- lots of good standards there, played eloquently.

And you need to hear Bird first. Savoy Sessions is where it all began, be bop wise
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 1:27 pm
 
King Oliver's Jazz Band's "Hot Fives" & "Hot Sevens" feat. Louie Armstrong is also a good start... History lesson-wise...
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 2:10 pm
 
dave brubeck was smarter than all these musicians because he wore glasses and played at colleges.
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 2:36 pm
 
classical

orff, hindemith, bartok, mahler
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 2:56 pm
 
wagner makes all other music superfluous
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 3:33 pm
 
This is a great starting point for a jazz collection:

http://www.amazon.com/101-best-jazz-albums-history/dp/0688037208
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 4:17 pm
 
Your music horizons don't stand a chance with advice like this.
Posted: Jan 20, 2009 8:50 pm
 
Ok, well what's Shenanigan's take? I know he's got some great stuff.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 4:27 am
 
I'm getting back into Chuck Mangione
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 8:21 am
 
i dig django reinhardt
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 10:30 am | Edited by: rich riggler
 
Lamonte Young-Inside the Dream Syndicate, Albert Ayler Trio-Spiritual Unity, Sonny Sharrock-Monkey Pockie Boo, Neu (S/T or 75), Amon Duul-Psychedelic Underground, Anthony Braxton-For Alto, Iannis Xenakis-Electronic Music, Lou Reed-Metal Machine Music, Les Rallizes Denudes-77 Live, Tony Conrad-4 Violins, Randy Holden-Population 2, Thelonious Monk-Blue Note Recordings, Wes Montgomery-Incredible Jazz Guitar, Keith Rowe-Harsh, AMM Music 1966, Sonny Rollins-Saxophone Collosus, John Coltrane-Ascension, Ornette Coleman-Free Jazz, Son House 20's Recordings, Peter Brotzmann-Nipples, Carter Family, Neil Young-On The Beach, Anthology of American Folk Music, Donald Miller-Little Treatise on Morals, Terry Riley, PIL etc...
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 11:52 am
 
What's the difference between a jazz guitar player and a rock guitar player?

The rock guitar player plays three chords in front of a hundred people.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 11:53 am
 
Funhouse box set ...
FEATURING RON ASHETON
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 12:13 pm
 
Right now piano wise (jazz) it's Mal Waldron and Bobby Timmons. Most amazing Blue Note heard recently is "Blowing Session" with Johnny Griffin, Hank Mobley and John Coltrane.

Classical lately I like Bartok, Toru Takemitsu and Alan Hovhaness.

Blues lately is Fred McDowell.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 12:36 pm
 
i remember being a hotel room with the slicks in vegas and dana was air-conducting to the classical music on the hotel room clock radio. it was fucking disturbing.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 1:43 pm
 
ight now piano wise (jazz) it's Mal Waldron and Bobby Timmons. Most amazing Blue Note heard recently is "Blowing Session" with Johnny Griffin, Hank Mobley and John Coltrane.

We're definitely on the same page here...

Timmons is my favorite of the hard bopper pianists, funky as hell. His little solo trio albums rule, also.

Blowing Sessions is a force of nature, a true gunslinger sessions. And if those three honkers weren't enough, you get the great Lee Morgan to boot. An embarrassment of riches.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 2:13 pm
 
I could watch you losers play I'm into worse music than you all day.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 2:50 pm | Edited by: Rich Balls
 
What's the difference between a jazz guitar player and a rock guitar player?

The rock guitar player plays three chords in front of a hundred people.


new favorite joke!

Here is a suggstion, stop listening to boring music!
Soon, your life will be all about wearing loafers, sweater jackets, smoking pipes and sitting by the fireplace.

Jazz never made sense to me. Sometimes it seems like people go out of their way to find things they like about jazz. When in reality, it's just cool-cat-shit to dig with the too-hip jive turkeys.

EXCEPT:
If your an old black dude.
Old black dude's have a love for jazz that is genuine.
That is one of the few things I've learned when I worked at a CD store for a few years. Those guys jam on that shit in their '94 Cadillac Sedan Deville. They like all the new shit though. Not the Charlie Parker, he's great cuz he did heroin bullshit.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 3:01 pm
 
if you mean that, you're a retard.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 3:42 pm
 
Uh Rich, what do you think The Stooges were listening to? Pharoah Sanders-Tauhid (ripped the bass line for Little Doll from the last track), Coltrane's Ascension etc...The Velvets? Ayler, Ornette, Cecil Taylor. Same for The MC5. I love Jazz. Not the boring stuff they're talking about above but the stuff that rocks.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 4:06 pm
 
I like Tauhid, and have recommended it to people many times.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 4:12 pm
 
Not the boring stuff they're talking about above but the stuff that rocks.

hard bop is hardly boring in it's 50's incarnation. it's later smithsonian feel in the 80's and beyond is stultifying at best.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 4:32 pm | Edited by: rich riggler
 
Hard Bop is a snoozefest, Daddy-O. Squaresville. It's like Rock before Punk. Dinosaur Jazz. Why do you think all the young cats went so hard for The New Thing? )And cats like Monk, Trane and Sonny Rollins went their own way?) I'm not much for Exotica/Spoken Word either.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 4:55 pm
 
Add Andrew Hill to the list.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 5:26 pm
 
King Tubby, U Roy-Version Galore, DNA, Royal Trux-Twin Infinitives, The Shaggs, Can, Glenn Branca, Red Transistor, Harry Pussy, Red Krayola-Parable of Arable Land, Fripp/Eno-No Pussyfooting, Ornette Coleman-Crisis, Cecil Taylor Unit, Blue Cheer, 13th Floor Elevators, Spacemen 3-Sound of Confusion, Fugs-First Album, VU-69 Live, Pussy Galore-Right Now, Slits-Cut, Miles Davis-On The Corner...
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 5:29 pm
 
Eric Dolphy, Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane all played both ends of the traditional and the free spectrums. Ornette's first record on Contemporary has very strong bop influences.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 5:44 pm | Edited by: rich riggler
 
Ornette plays total Bop. Sideways. That's why he's a genius. Nobody you've mentioned could touch Sonny Rollins' inventiveness in improvising. Coltrane completely turned his back on Bop in the last years of his life(he was always more of a Modal-ist). The musicians themselves saw it as a dead end. It was chained to traditional chords and changes and the players wanted to be melodically free. (Seen Jackie McLean play a 20+ minute solo Alto piece before he died and it was total Free-Bop btw.)
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 6:00 pm
 
I'm a fan of Jackie Mclean and I think that he, as a long time music teacher, would feel that the varied history of jazz music all has a place and a meaning, and that Jelly Roll Morton or Louis Armstrong were as revolutionary in their times as Charlie Parker or Cecil taylor were in theirs.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 6:03 pm
 
Modal v. be-bop.
Barbed wire grudge match!

If only Dexter Gordon had stayed clean living in the USA, he rivals Rollins. I would also go with Harold Land as a neo-be-bopper on the tenor. Johnny Griffin would be the last in that company.

As an aside, "Jazz" is dying fast. We went to see Billy Bang last month and were the youngest people in the room.

You forgot Threadgill/Air Trio. or more AACM guys. I once heard Roscoe Mitchell play a non-free modal be-bop solo that encompassed everything and added up to 100%.

have always been a John Gilmore fan but outside of Sun Ra he's on few releases. The Andrew Hill dates are good (I think there's two) but I recently (finally) got Gilmore on an Art Blakey issue and was disappointed. But I've never gotten that excited about Blakey, dunno why.

Julius Hemphill is another guy who could play anything.

But understand Ned, anybody living outside of NYC, Chicago or Detroit/Ann Arbor would scarcely be exposed to any of this. in any era.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 6:13 pm
 
Ornette plays total Bop. Sideways. That's why he's a genius. Nobody you've mentioned could touch Sonny Rollins' inventiveness in improvising. Coltrane completely turned his back on Bop in the last years of his life(he was always more of a Modal-ist). The musicians themselves saw it as a dead end. It was chained to traditional chords and changes and the players wanted to be melodically free. (Seen Jackie McLean play a 20+ minute solo Alto piece before he died and it was total Free-Bop btw.)

Louis Armstrong could have touched Sonny's inventiveness, that's for sure. Louis was an architectural player not just finding notes but structures as he played, much like Sonny a la Freedom Suite. Way ahead of his time or damn near anyone's time ever. The musicians did come to see bop as a dead end but only after exhausting it. The products of that exhaustion are worth listening to, in my opinion, if only for the reason that they led to the next stage. In my jadedness, sometimes the guys I prefer from that era are more the stylists, Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Timmons, those Blakey disciples, the anti-Phil Woods if you will, guys that injected soul and personality into their performances. Not every piece needs to be a groundbreaking theoretical development but can be a statement in style and approach. And if you really want music that flat-out rocks, I'll go with the 60's Dannie Richmond backed Mingus bands.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 6:19 pm
 
And if you really want music that flat-out rocks, I'll go with the 60's Dannie Richmond backed Mingus bands.


agreed whole heartedly. A logical extension of Ellington.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 6:30 pm
 
The musicians did come to see bop as a dead end but only after exhausting it.

even after clifford brown exhausted it, cats were trying to catch up to him, and he had just died.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 7:00 pm
 
Art Tatum - "Over the Rainbow" or anything else he did.
Miles Davis - "Get Up With it", "Birth of the Cool"
Richard Wagner - "Twilight of the Gods - The Essential Wagner Collection"
Gustav Holst - "Planets"
VA - "Inspiration & Power 14 Free Jazz Festival 1", in particular Itaru Oki Quintet - "October Revolution"
Ornette Coleman - "Crisis"
Pharoah Sanders - "Elevation"
Archie Shepp Quintet - "Deja Vu"
Sonny Sharrock - "Black Woman" and whichever album contains the recording, "Peaceful"
Sun Ra Arkestra - "Jazz in Silhouette"
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 7:59 pm
 
Gero Geri Gegege

Everyone else is just beating off.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 8:23 pm
 
As an aside, "Jazz" is dying fast. We went to see Billy Bang last month and were the youngest people in the room.

Apparently Rock is dying too. I saw Magic Christian the other night and at 28 was easily the youngest guy there. Cyril Jordan was great despite a butt-ugly guitar.
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 10:48 pm | Edited by: Rich Balls
 
Uh Rich, what do you think The Stooges were listening to? Pharoah Sanders-Tauhid (ripped the bass line for Little Doll from the last track), Coltrane's Ascension etc...The Velvets? Ayler, Ornette, Cecil Taylor. Same for The MC5. I love Jazz. Not the boring stuff they're talking about above but the stuff that rocks.
Yeah, I admitt, I've never gave jazz a real chance. In high school I tried to listen Coltrane and thought it all sounded the same.
Maybe now it'd be different. But I dunno where to start.
I'll look up some of the stuff you mentioned.

--B. Joe,
Just becuase someone thinks alot of the jazz that's out-there is boring doesn't make them retarded. I'm retarded cuz I dropped sheets and sheets of acid within the span of 4 years.
I didn't say jazz was 'bad.'
Just boring.
Imagine what the average person would think of half of the shit all of us praise on this forum.
--Or show a Cheater Slicks LP to a hardcore jazz-head (who loves tastey licks) .. see what they say about it.
Would they be stupid if they dissed on it? I mean, they like jazz, that must mean they know what good music is, right?

How's that new Kenny G?
Joe? anyone?
whaaa whhaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Posted: Jan 21, 2009 11:44 pm
 
--B. Joe,
Just becuase someone thinks alot of the jazz that's out-there is boring doesn't make them retarded.



bro, you admitted to not getting it at all, and because you don't know how to follow it (or swing for that matter) you claimed anyone into it was posing! lame!


Jazz never made sense to me. Sometimes it seems like people go out of their way to find things they like about jazz. When in reality, it's just cool-cat-shit to dig with the too-hip jive turkeys.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 12:08 am
 
Sometimes it seems like people go out of their way

that's not "anyone into it"
that's sometimes.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 7:37 am
 
--Or show a Cheater Slicks LP to a hardcore jazz-head (who loves tastey licks) .. see what they say about it.

My father is a jazz musician...traditional jazz (the oldest form).

Needless to say he has trouble listening to a Cheater Slicks record. He did come to see us play once though.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 1:24 pm
 
blanton ellington band (37-39?) is tops

for 20th C classical

shostakovich string quaretets

r v williams symphonies

blue note monk

louis 25-30

jimmy rushing and count


tristano/bud powell/herbie nichols piano


britten\'s operas


artie shaw early 50\'s


all of sarah vaughn


miles quintets early 60\'s
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 4:20 pm
 
When I had my label I did a record with Sunny Murray and Charles Gayle. When I showed up to the session (in the middle of the day at The Knitting Factory) they were going over some charts and playiing some Bop type numbers. I sorta freaked since I didn't really do that kind of stuff on my label and suggested they just blow. So they just jammed on it for about an hour with the tape rolling, we mixed it and that was it. Later Sunny told me it was a good idea. He had told me previously that he regretted ever playing Free music and he shoulda never stopped playing Bop. On the other hand he told me a story about seeing Miles at a nightclub back in the early 60's and getting up the nerve to tell him that Bop was over and The New Thing was where it was at. Miles whispered for him to shut the f up and sit down and party. (Sunny Murray playing Bop would be like Jackson Pollack painting nature scenes. ) Sunny is a mathematical and rhythmic genius. Spiritual Unity by The Albert Ayler Trio is possibly the greatest example of telepathic interplay that I have ever heard. Sunny uses links of chain on his cymbals to get that ghostly shimmer. I set up an in store for him once at Mondo Kim's back in the mid 90's and he played solo drums for about 20 minutes. It was great.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 4:26 pm
 
(Sunny Murray playing Bop would be like Jackson Pollack painting nature scenes. )


sick.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 6:48 pm
 
go outside and listen to traffic

inherently better than all the artsy fartsy shit in here
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 7:55 pm
 
go outside and listen to traffic

inherently better than all the artsy fartsy shit in here



if you think that sounds good you should try going to the pinball hall of fame in vegas.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 8:45 pm
 
if you think that sounds good you should stick your head up yer ass
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 9:04 pm
 
no.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 11:03 pm
 
listen to traffic
Though you probably didn't mean to, you brought up what I think is the most important point about listening to music seriously and being able to appreciate all sound.
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 11:08 pm
 
^ hippie
Posted: Jan 22, 2009 11:41 pm
 
go outside and listen to traffic

steve winwood sucks ass...
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