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Goner Message Board / ???? / ....ah-HA! He's a Marxist!
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 4:22 am
 
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 4:41 am
 
man that was awesome. Someone get that man some bubblegum. He's all out.
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 1:03 pm
 
that was hilarious! "Are you joking? Was that a real question?"
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 1:06 pm
 
WFTV Channel 9's Barbara West puts Joe Biden on the hot seat over ACORN, voter fraud, and Barack Obama's "Spread the wealth" comments, and even asks if Obama is a "Marxist".

The result? Best. Interview. Ever.

The Gaffe-Master Joe Biden was so upset, that he had the Obama campaign cancel an interview the station had scheduled with his wife, Jill, along with all future interviews.

The Orlando Sentinel reports:

"Why did Barack Obama's campaign cancel a WFTV-Channel 9 interview with Jill Biden, wife of Sen. Joe Biden? The campaign cited an unprofessional interview WFTVs Barbara West did Thursday with Joe Biden. In a statement Friday, Adrianne Marsh, Florida spokeswoman for Obamas campaign, said the station, in talking with Sen. Biden, was both combative and woefully uninformed about simple facts. Marsh said Wests insistence that Obama was an organizer for ACORN was 100 percent false. In a line of questioning that would make Rush Limbaugh proud, West even went as far as to quote Karl Marx, a Communist icon, in a disturbing attempt to associate Barack Obama with socialism, Marsh wrote. West said, "I think I asked him some pointed questions... I dont think I was rude or inconsiderate to him."
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 1:07 pm
 
obama is every bad thing ever!
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 2:47 pm
 
wow. that woman was ridiculous. i can't believe the questions she asked him. damn. i keep forgetting how totally out there some people are in their opinions of obama. it's funny how the average american will rally behind some retards draped in the flag screaming "you're anti-american" and "you're a socialist commie baby killer" even though their money is being slowly siphoned by those fucktards and their corporate loving party.
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 3:00 pm
 
The Republican party is going to go the way of the Whigs within the next twenty years or so. Marx my words.
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 3:12 pm
 
WFTV = WHAT the FUCK TV?
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 3:25 pm
 
The Republican party is going to go the way of the Whigs within the next twenty years or so.

i can see that if you mean by splitting into factions and the "know nothing" party (who really truly does know nothing. heheh.) being sort of re-created in some kinda ultra-nationalist right wing party that is anti-immigration (kinda like the american nationalist party, only not as overtly neonazi). and i could TOTALLY see sarah palin championing something like that kinda party. oh i wish her stupid husband would get his wish and that alaska wouldn't be part of the u.s. anymore so we wouldn't have to deal with her stupid ass as she would no longer be a u.s. native and therefore not be eligible to run for presidency. heh. (sorry, alaska. nothing against you.)
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 3:35 pm
 
i keep forgetting how totally out there some people are in their opinions of obama.

You should read the comments here. Or maybe you shouldn't. Good lord, most of the comments are thanking the reporter for asking the "tough questions" that are on everybody's mind. Are people really that dumb?

In most any other civilized country, Obama would be center-right on the political spectrum. Here, he's a Marxist.
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 4:34 pm | Edited by: carney
 
Any candidate should be able to face the "tough" questions, that's their job. There's nothing anti-american about Obama, Biden should be able to look anyone in the eye and say that.

Good lord, most of the comments are thanking the reporter for asking the "tough questions" that are on everybody's mind. Are people really that dumb?

In our polarized nation, either side sees the other side as "really that dumb". That's the part that BOTH sides don't get. There's really no difference between sides other than the side they choose to support. Here's my scorecard for the big issues of modern politics:

FOR:
death penalty (R)
abortion (D)
small govt (supposedly R)
property rights (R)
legal immigration/amnesty (D)
decrimilization of marijuana (D)
gay marriage (D)
subsidized healthcare for those who qualify (D/R)

AGAINST:
gun control (D)
creationism (R)
affirmative action (D)
universal health care (D)
wall st bailout (R/D)

In most any other civilized country, Obama would be center-right on the political spectrum. Here, he's a Marxist.
In modern times, we've been much more conservative politically than the rest of the world. Most other countries depend on their govt to take care of them and make most of their decisions for them. They also distrust their govts more than we do and work from the assumption that they will be screwed over, no matter what. I want to like Obama. He's smart and well meaning, but his "spreading the wealth around" schtick is pandering to class envy. McCain's also well-meaning but every bit as flawed as Obama, he's pandering to the religious wing of the GOP.

My early vote went to Bob Barr. In county/state elections, I was all over the board. Black republican state supreme court justice, black democratic sherriff, and a few libertarians just to round things out. I also voted for a local amendment that will stop tax incentives for business.
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 10:09 pm
 
Obama may win, but he will never go 8 years. He's the next Jimmy Carter.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 12:22 am
 
most of the argument of republicans for the democrats being so dumb for supporting obama is that they say he "smacks of socialism" and supports terrorism and that he is going to raise taxes for the middle class. most of them believe every word sarah palin says (not even what mccain says, but PALIN, the retard of the universe.)

i don't think obama is the end all be all or answer to all of america's problems, but we need something drastically different than the 90 percent agreement with the policies of george w. bush. and at least obama gives some hope for that. his policies aren't even leftist enough for me, and my mom (the hopeless republican that she is) thinks he's way too liberal for america.

the government is supposed to be a representation of the needs of the people. unfortunately, most people really don't know what they need and they certainly don't like being told what they need either (because then they scream that the person telling them is an elitist knowitall). and what happens is that what the government says it is going to do in campaign promises ends up just being rhetoric to win over votes and then they turn around and do things truly detrimental to the wellbeing of majority of the voting constituent. (the religious right truly has no idea what it is really voting for anymore, in my personal opinion. some of them truly are so deluded that they think the repubs are actually going to do something about roe v. wade or gay marriage or putting creationism into the curriculum of schools. that's all lip service to keep them flocking to the polls come election time.)

like people from other countries, i feel like no matter what, we'll be screwed over. it is just a matter of how. and quite frankly, it is time to give the dems the chance because i'm kinda sick of getting anally raped by repubs, thanks. and i'd like to get some health care, please!?!
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:09 am
 
In our polarized nation, either side sees the other side as "really that dumb". That's the part that BOTH sides don't get. There's really no difference between sides other than the side they choose to support.

We're all impressed that you have picked and chosen among both Republican and Democratic talking points for your views, but that doesn't have much to do with this particular interview.

Any candidate should be able to face the "tough" questions, that's their job.

Did you actually watch this? This goes beyond simple right/left b.s. Way worse, even, than the usual Fox news brainwashing we have gotten used to, to the point of being Orwellian. I have many points of disagreement with Obama/Biden, but there are plenty of real substantive questions that could be asked of either of them and that's not what's happening here. Instead it's a transparent "Will you stop beating your wife?" level of questioning. This is some Joe McCarthy shit here.

The US first had an income tax during the Civil War, and has been "spreading the wealth around" ever since, so we've been a pinko "Marxist" country at least since then, I guess. Obama is about as Marxist as Eisenhower or Reagan ever were.


Most other countries depend on their govt to take care of them and make most of their decisions for them.


You are embarrassing yourself.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:26 am
 
Most other countries depend on their govt to take care of them and make most of their decisions for them. They also distrust their govts more than we do and work from the assumption that they will be screwed over, no matter what.

i personally can't think of any other western country that trades in government distrust as a cultural force as much as the usa does.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:54 am
 
This guy has part of Obama, Biden and Allah in his name. Clearly a terrorist.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/story/2008/10/the-powell-doctr ine.html
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 4:39 am
 
The "reporter" is married to a GOP consultant.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 9:15 am
 
You are embarrassing yourself.
No, your self rightousness is embarrassing. I did watch it and it was no more disgusting than the bias that msnbc OR fox puts out. Any candidate should be prepared to face that kind of shit. That is the culture of modern politics. Notice the " " around the term tough.

Those aren't talking points those are beliefs. What are your beliefs? I laid mine out there to illustrate how neither side works for me. What's your solution Schooley? What are YOU doing to make our country better? You don't get it, I'm on your side. We want the same basic things. I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain or Obama. Both candidates tout their plans for economic growth and revitalization. Both are flawed and neither one will work. Did you vote yes or no on prop 2? I voted against it. I don't think that its fair to local small business. What's your take?

Why the personal attack Schooley? Can't you just discuss politics without demeaning those you disagree with? I thought you liberals were all about tolerance.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 9:49 am
 
Most other countries depend on their govt to take care of them and make most of their decisions for them.

I was talking about the quote above, that's what is embarrassing. I wasn't attacking your political views. To say something like this just makes you look jingoistic and frankly a bit foolish. Have you ever been to another country, or even talked to someone who lives in another country? I think you will find that they manage to eat, work, dress themselves, and generally live their lives without having the government "decide" everything for them.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 10:11 am
 
having the government take over health care is hardly just letting the government "decide" everything for you because if you have normal employer based health care, you don't have to worry about that shit anyway. i think right now that the most of the people who don't have any health care at all would be grateful for ANY kind of health care coverage because most of the time, you make a decision between sucking it up and staying home or having to go to the emergency room if it just gets that bad. and you gotta sit for hours in an emergency room anyway and trust me, it ain't fun. and trust me, it's expensive as shit.

what it means is that people who don't have health care who can't afford it end up having to go to the emergency rooms with indigent care. these emergency rooms would be for true emergencies only if there were some other option for people who cannot afford to go to a regular doctor. but usually these options are vastly underfunded and too small to handle the load of patients needing to be seen. (but thank christ that they're there at all. while it's one good step toward helping the problem, it just shows overall that you can't just rely on the goodness of the people and charity to take on the burden of supplying the poor with health care because there just isn't enough money to go 'round because too many people aren't so willing to help out others at all.)

and people talk about overwhelming amounts of debt on the american people...hey, part of that is due to rising hospital costs which happen partially because of indigent folks being unable to pay their bills which are exorbitant...a sick and neverending cycle.

it's really time that the government takes care of its own rather than just leaving us to rot while helping out people who really DON'T need their help (ie, the rich). it's not making a decision for us, but rather, it's reaching out and giving people a way to take care of themselves rather than letting the healthcare/pharmaceutical industry put a foot on the throats of those who can't afford insurance.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 10:52 am
 
I have been to other countries and most of my friends from other countries prefer to live here, free of excessive taxation and unwaranted regulation. Not trying to be jingositic, why do you think immigrants flock here? For opportunity and chance to succeed.

I'm all for everyone having some form of health insurance. I would rather purchase my own than have the govt manage my care. Without insurance, I would be dead. I'm just afraid the more the govt has to do with administiring any type of health care. they will be as effective as the current management of the public school system.

I'm currently trying to help a friend navigate through the public aid/mental health system. It is a complete nightmare. My wife and I have spent hundreds of dollars purchasing his meds. He deserves help and he cannot make it on his own. In his case the govt should definately provide for his basic needs, at least until he can get his life back together.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:26 am
 
Stop it with the "Marxist" shit, already. The people throwing it around don't even know what the word means. Does he believe in workers owning the means of production? No. That means he's a capitalist. This lefty thinks Obama is a pragmatic centrist like FDR, which is probably exactly what we need right now.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:40 am
 

I'm all for everyone having some form of health insurance. I would rather purchase my own than have the govt manage my care.


that works for some people, but some of us like your friend, need the government to step in and help. there just needs to be some sort of governmental health care option that doesn't necessarily consider income (because documenting all that shit is ridiculous and wading through paperwork and waiting on consideration sometimes takes too long when there just should be a place to go if you're sick and can't afford traditional means of obtaining health care like what is available now).

what obama proposed is not going to take away from YOUR option to purchase health care on your own. by all means, go out there and spend money on whatever doctor you think best. but not all of us can afford to do that and there needs to be an option out there even if it's less than desirable for richy rich types to go there. who fucking cares? as long as they don't have dirty facilities and they have trained doctors who aren't puppets of pharma companies who shell out pills no one really truly needs, then it shouldn't be a problem. the system right now is so jacked up and ends up costing everyone so much anyway that something HAS to be done. anything is an improvement.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:48 am
 
The people throwing it around don't even know what the word means.

i know. this KILLS me.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:50 am
 
there just needs to be some sort of governmental health care option that doesn't necessarily consider income
It should be need based. Ideally, if you are eligible, you would already be in the system without having to apply. That way, if an emergency arises, you could go seek help without the paerwork, etc.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 12:21 pm
 
Paging Ed Oblivian and Goobler.....are you out there? Paging Ed Oblivian and Goobler.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 12:29 pm
 
the point is, they're not using the word "marxist" because they know what it means.

They're using it as a scare tactic, back to the 50's.

Just like "palling around with terrorists".

They have so little positive to draw on, after 8 years of ruination, divisive culture wars, and a transparent war profiteering scheme, that all they can do is go negative --- IDIOTIC negative.

HOPEfully this is the beginning of the end of this type of hate politics. They have divided our country by ignoring our political system and exploiting spiritual/cultural differences.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 12:35 pm
 
that woman was awful. The politics of fear, indeed...
Go Joe, for calling her out on it.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:25 pm
 
Keerist! I watched it.

what an idiot. that's not NEWS, that's propaganda. Was she trying to get him mad or something? Joe was quite reasonable.

Sorry for all you Central Floridians. The news is coming from Goofy's HQ at DisneyWorld
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 1:29 pm
 
if you look at some of the comments and what the same video postings is named by other people, you would think that the woman is a saint for asking "tough questions" and that joe biden was a "liar". it's gotten ridiculous. if those fucktards would win, god only knows that we'd have some red commie searching going on. oh god mccarthy is probably drooling on himself in his grave thinking what a field day he'd be having in our modern society if palin/mccain would win.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 4:01 pm
 
there just needs to be some sort of governmental health care option that doesn't necessarily consider income
It should be need based. Ideally, if you are eligible, you would already be in the system without having to apply. That way, if an emergency arises, you could go seek help without the paerwork, etc.



I gotta disagree with you here. The reason the US healthcare system is so troubled is precisely this way of thinking. Focusing on illness after it happens it not a way to fix the personal and public health issues here. Billions of dollars are wasted treating preventable illnesses, most of which are not prevented because people lack adquate healthcare coverage, to get educated, immunized, screened, etc. Giving people access to affordable primary care will absolutley drive down the amount that is spent on healthcare, and it will improve individual patient outcomes.

As for your friend, I am very sorry. The govt should help him, but not just until he gets better. They should help him stay healthy after his recovery so that the insane costs of tertiary medical care can be avoided.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 4:12 pm | Edited by: carney
 
Part of my idealized system would include primary care that focus on preventitive health care, nutrition, etc. I just think that at a certain point, if you are in the system, you should be granted all the services that you qualify for. You shouldn't have to prove need over and over. There is such overlap, or in some cases lapses, between state, fed, county, city, etc.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 4:51 pm
 
i just want to point out that i don't personally think Obama is a Marxist. i posted this because I, like col. bat guano (and joe biden apparently), found it patently offensive that this reporter would ask a question as ill-informed and ignorant as this one knowing she'd end up on youtube and in people's inboxes to be lionized or adored for her totally irresponsible spin.

people who live in boxes shouldn't use matches.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 4:51 pm
 
You shouldn't have to prove need over and over.

I have no healthcare, I'm middle aged, and divorced with three kids, have a few medical problems, and have $1250 a month coming into the house. Well, more if it's a good ebay week. I don't have a "job", but have many jobs. I am TERRIFIED of something worse happening to my health, but it's not enough for me to quit smoking. But that seems to be just some kind of "glitch" in myself. I make "too much money" to get Medicaid. I was on TennCare, and it was a godsend. They discontinued that.
At this point, I'm all for socialized health care.

I don't sit on my ass eating bon bons all day, I am not about to make up a bunch of crap about my health and doctor shop until I can qualify for some kind of governmental help, I work hard for my family.
I just want some kind of control over the thousands and thousands of dollars it cost when I had some kind of intestinal weirdness last year that lasted several months. I don't want to spend $3,000 dollars for a colonoscopy. I do want some kind of regulation in the healthcare industry.
I just think it's crap that every damned time I'm in the doctor's office I see a STEADY STREAM of well dressed pharmacuetical reps and then those meds get pushed on me.

rant, rant, rant...but it's not so simple. I don't see how anyone in government is going to reform the healthcare system, but I want someone "in power" who at least is talking about it in a meaningful way. McCain's $5000 tax credit...well, that's all well and good (except it gets paid back directly to the insurance companies) if you can afford to get health care in the first place. There are millions of people in America that can't.

I also think it's digraceful that there are millions of American children who are starving, and we spend all this money outside of the USA.

So, where does this put me politically?
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 5:11 pm
 
What's so bad about socialism? What do you call what they just did for the banking industry? Or the airlines after 9/11? Or The New Deal? It's as American as Apple Pie. Bring it on!
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 5:17 pm
 
I thought your grandpappy fought in the big one to help rid us of socialism?
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 5:24 pm
 
Socialism is not Communism.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 5:54 pm
 
our political discourse/exchange here
on the GONER Board

above the heads of 90-95% of our fellow Amurricans
(notice I'm hedging)

sorry, sheeple
you can get back to "Dancing with the Stars" now
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 6:13 pm
 
What's so bad about socialism? What do you call what they just did for the banking industry? Or the airlines after 9/11? Or The New Deal? It's as American as Apple Pie. Bring it on!

Right on. Might as well do away with public schools, fire dept., police dept., the interstate, military, etc., because they are all funded by taxpayers and run by the government. Socialism indeed. . .
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 6:27 pm
 
I guess the discussion should address one simple question.

As an American, what are your rights? the term "rights" gets thrown around like communism/socialism/conservative/liberal. We have very specific rights outlined in the constitution. Education, health care, and voting are not rights (as defined by the bill of rights).

Discuss.
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 6:43 pm
 
"They took my rights away and turned them into wrongs"

-----Gregory Isaacs
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 6:51 pm
 
As an American, what are your rights? the term "rights" gets thrown around like communism/socialism/conservative/liberal. We have very specific rights outlined in the constitution. Education, health care, and voting are not rights (as defined by the bill of rights).



Fuck "as an American." What about "as a human?"
Posted: Oct 27, 2008 11:54 pm | Edited by: Schooley
 
Education, health care, and voting are not rights (as defined by the bill of rights).

For just one example - the constitution or bill of rights didn't say anything about slavery being wrong, either. They had to add in some kind of amendment about that later on, as I recall. Changes have been made, from time to time. Yeah, so the "right" to health care isn't specifically outlined in the constitution. The average lifespan was also about 35 or so when that document was written, women couldn't vote, and blacks weren't considered people.

You talk about how immigrants still come to the US, and they do. But they tend to come from countries with really brutal dictatorships and corrupt governments, or that are torn by civil war, or countries with severe economic problems. Few them come from western Europe, Japan, Australia, Scandanavia - areas of the world with a more socialized economic structure, and that all happen to have universal health care. Is it really worth bragging that the US is better off than Haiti, Rwanda, Cuba, Mexico, or China? If Swedes, Danes, the French and Dutch were flocking here you might have an argument.

Every successful economy has a mix of socialism and capitalism. Even this capitalist oasis. We already socialize education, infrastructure, the military, scientific research, etc. etc. We recently socialized our entire banking system. We are already taxed heavily, yes, but most of the benefits of these taxes go to lining the pockets of the already wealthy, at the expense of everybody else. I agree that our government is bloated and needs to be reformed, but what's wrong with actually expecting something in return for all our tax dollars in the meantime?

But don't take my word for it. There's a nice little smart-ass piece in Counterpunch today, and it's by a college professor so maybe he's more credible than I am, even if I say some of the same things...

Remind Me Again - Who Won the Cold War?

But at least now we can finally answer our pregnant question: Which American president has been the most socialist of all, apart from FDR and LBJ? The (really, really) surprising answer is: George W. Bush.

...

You have to admit, it’s more than a bit odd to see the United States, that bastion of capitalism, led by George W. Bush, that great champion of free market ideology, now massively plunging itself deeply into good old-fashioned socialism in the form of increased welfare state benefits, bailouts, and the nationalization of major industries. Add that to existing programs and those coming around the corner, plus increased regulation, and pretty soon we won’t be far off from being... France! �" the nightmare scenario of those sick things on the right. Somehow, in their addled brains, when George W. Bush massively expands government healthcare coverage for seniors that’s a good thing, but, say, providing it to children or to all of us represents evil socialism, the very thing which will destroy the fiber of this mighty country. Nevermind that ‘mighty’ seems to ring more melodious in a sentence with ‘China’ these days than with ‘America’. Only people twisted enough to think that the democratic socialism practiced by contemporary Europeans is some sort of decadent system produced by Satan himself (“My god, they get paid maternity leave!! There’s healthcare for all!! They work far fewer hours per week and have guaranteed seven-week vacations!! This is just wrong!! This humanity is inhuman!!”) could also applaud Bush for doing exactly the same thing for which they’d certainly excoriate Obama for doing.
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 12:23 am
 
This guy has part of Obama, Biden and Allah in his name. Clearly a terrorist.

Not to mention his first name is Dean. As in Howard Dean, Comrade?
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 12:33 am
 
The most patriotic thing anyone can do is to question our leaders and their ideas, no matter what it is that you believe. However, there's a solid difference between questioning their ideas and needlessly slandering those ideas for the purpose of political gain.

Beyond our economic woes, our personal and social freedoms are being tested by people whose beliefs are so far right that they are outside of anything resembling mainstream thought. This is the result of what happened when Focus on the Family and its ilk became entrenched in the day-to-day of the Republican party. It has spawned a breed of raw conservatism that bears little or no resemblance to the Republican party's original idea.

The "fire and brimstone" Republicans are not the center of the party, though you would not know it to hear them talk. That's why there are so many Republicans voting for Obama in this election: they're fed up the same way Democrats were when they voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004.

And so, all this talk about who and what Barack Obama is or what he represents only mean one thing: the Republicans are scared because the party is over and they know it.

Remember, always, that America is the only nation formed based on an idea. America is, and we as Americans are, a concept. The paradigms shift with changes in our cultural and economic makeup. What worked yesterday may not work today or even tomorrow. But the basic idea behind America, it has always seemed to me, is that no matter what happens, the basics should always remain the same.
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 6:35 am
 
the term "rights" gets thrown around like communism/socialism/conservative/liberal. We have very specific rights outlined in the constitution. Education, health care, and voting are not rights (as defined by the bill of rights).


See Article 25 of the universal declaration of human rights. Obviously none of these rights is universally enacted, but as the sigular superpower, shouldn't our nation seek to meet them in the US and around the world, instead of systematically violating nearly every right on that list?
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 9:23 am
 
Socialized healthcare for those who need it would only make America more efficient. You're paying for every poor person's emergency room visits now anyway. People who can afford their own healthcare or get it through work are already set. But the other people should have a right to good health too. If we can afford 2 wars and all these bailouts for huge corporations we can afford healthcare for every American. America will always be a Capitalist/Socialist hybrid. And there will always be people on the right resenting that. That's America.
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 9:41 am
 
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 9:54 am
 
See this type of discussion is way better than making fun of McCain and Palin. Face it, they are easy targets. Plus most of our anger should be directed to Bush AND the congress. I hold the congress responsible for most of the banking debacle.


If we can afford 2 wars and all these bailouts for huge corporations we can afford healthcare for every American.

I agree, except we can't afford the 2 wars and bailouts. We just print up the money anyway. Health care is worth going into debt for.
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 1:04 pm
 
Is it really worth bragging that the US is better off than Haiti, Rwanda, Cuba, Mexico, or China? If Swedes, Danes, the French and Dutch were flocking here you might have an argument.

no kidding. we're not much the land of opportunity anymore except as an escape from harsh dictatorship. anything is better than haiti or rwanda at this point.

people on the right resenting health care just say that they resent paying for the welfare of others because others are supposedly lazy and don't want to work. what they don't seem to realize is that these supposedly lazy people who don't have healthcare are their grown sons and daughters who wait tables and scrape by to make a living because there just isn't the opportunity there anymore even with a college degree since our economy went into the shitter. my mom is all against universal health care, but the only reason any of her daughters have health insurance is because one of them is enlisted in the national guard. the other two (includes me) don't have any kind of health care coverage whatsoever because we're too old to rely on our parents for it and our jobs that we have don't carry it. it's not a matter of being lazy, but more of a matter that our economy is FUCKED.

we give away so much money in the form of foreign aid that it is irritating that we can't take care of our own people here and we deem our own folks lazy. but when foreign countries need it, we're civilizing them supposedly. when in reality, it's to dictate to them that our corporations can go in there and anally rape their economy. we give them economic incentives to let our companies move over there and hire their people instead for less money than they would have to spend over here and without any type of environmental concern at all. it's fucking awful.
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 1:33 pm
 
I thought your grandpappy fought in the big one to help rid us of socialism?

If you want to talk about scare tactics...
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 4:03 am
 
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 4:04 am
 
obama is a nigger.
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 1:11 pm
 
Well, the level of discourse was higher than normal, anyway.

You want to stop the practice of offshoring jobs? Enact universal health care. The current employer-based system actually penalizes employers for creating full-time jobs, because they have to not only pay an employee, but provide health care for them and their entire family. You want to encourage entrepreneurialism? Enact universal health care. How many creative, energetic people with good ideas are tied to a job and unable to strike out on their own because they're afraid their kids wouldn't get to see a doctor?

People say the American health care system is broken. It's not. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do"keep the lower classes in their place and make the workers too afraid to ask for anything better than what they have.
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 1:38 pm
 
I don't believe I should fight for my right to party anymore.
I mean, it's been 20 years or something now?
Where's the progress we've made?
I'm looking for full subsidation.
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 4:45 pm
 
First of all, its Marxism...there never were any Marxists!!

Karl Marx was a writer and philosopher of social organization in the 19th century, and his ideas were beneficial to many thinkers.. such as T Roosevelt, doing away with child labor

Marx's writings were about equality and fairness. He gets a bad name because Stalin openly, but misguidedly and with his own evil agenda, followed Marx's ideals.

There is no such thing as a Marxist... he had NO political followers, however- one can be supportive or against the political and social theories espoused by Marx, i.e. Marxism...
Posted: Oct 29, 2008 5:00 pm
 
one could say we follow marxian ideals?
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