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Goner Message Board / ???? / manny is no longer manny
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 4:09 pm
 
lemme get this right: a non hustling, aging, violent (2 fights this year with red sox personnel, one a ticket agent!!), crybaby bitch who has an option for 40 million dollars the next two years is no longer welcomed in boston?

have a nice vacation andruw jones: yr days are numbered.


fuck manny. fuck joe torre. fuck torre's payrolls.

loser.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 4:38 pm
 
lemme get this right: a non hustling, aging, violent (2 fights this year with red sox personnel, one a ticket agent!!), crybaby bitch who has an option for 40 million dollars the next two years is no longer welcomed in boston?

You left out disgusting.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 5:03 pm
 
You left out Prima Donna

I'm happy, now Manny will know how I feel about him -- he'll get an earful from the cheapseats, SF bleachers.
I guess the first comment will pertain to washcloths.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 6:41 pm
 
manny's probably the greatest right-handed hitter of my generation.

but i can't respect a player who gives so little of a shit about defense & hustle.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 7:33 pm | Edited by: michael baker
 
manny's probably the greatest right-handed hitter of my generation.


well...

the greatest rbi man for sure; as a hitter only (no steals, lousy base runner, apathetic fielder, locker room dilettante) he goes down on my list. and yes steals and running from first to third hard are "offensive" skills


i think pujols will cream him in 8 years; i think thomas was better until slide of last three years; and i think bagwell was a better player

but all of them are HOF'ers

1991
156 554 79 163 26 4 15 82 242 75 116 7 4 .387 .437 .294
1992
162 586 87 160 34 6 18 96 260 84 97 10 6 .368 .444 .273
1993
142 535 76 171 37 4 20 88 276 62 73 13 4 .388 .516 .320
1994
110 400 104 147 32 2 39 116 300 65 65 15 4 .451 .750 .368
1995
114 448 88 130 29 0 21 87 222 79 102 12 5 .399 .496 .290
1996
162 568 111 179 48 2 31 120 324 135 114 21 7 .451 .570 .315
1997
162 566 109 162 40 2 43 135 335 127 122 31 10 .425 .592 .286
1998
147 540 124 164 33 1 34 111 301 109 90 19 7 .424 .557 .304
1999
162 562 143 171 35 0 42 126 332 149 127 30 11 .454 .591 .304
2000
159 590 152 183 37 1 47 132 363 107 116 9 6 .424 .615 .310
2001
161 600 126 173 43 4 39 130 341 106 135 11 3 .397 .568 .288
2002
158 571 94 166 33 2 31 98 296 101 130 7 3 .401 .518 .291
2003
160 605 109 168 28 2 39 100 317 88 119 11 4 .373 .524 .278
2004
156 572 104 152 29 2 27 89 266 96 131 6 4 .377 .465 .266
2005
39 100 11 25 4 0 3 19 38 18 21 0 0 .358 .380 .250


Career Totals
2150 7797 1517 2314 488 32 449 1529 4213 1401 1558 202 78 .408 .540 .2 97



950 OB and Slugging; 202 steals Bagwell


EASON
TEAM
G
AB
R
H
2B
3B
HR
RBI
TB
BB
SO
SB
CS
OBP
SLG
AVG
1990
60 191 39 63 11 3 7 31 101 44 54 0 1 .454 .529 .330
1991
158 559 104 178 31 2 32 109 309 138 112 1 2 .453 .553 .318
1992
160 573 108 185 46 2 24 115 307 122 88 6 3 .439 .536 . 323
1993
153 549 106 174 36 0 41 128 333 112 54 4 2 .426 .607 . 317
1994
113 399 106 141 34 1 38 101 291 109 61 2 3 .487 .729 . 353
1995
145 493 102 152 27 0 40 111 299 136 74 3 2 .454 .606 . 308
1996
141 527 110 184 26 0 40 134 330 109 70 1 1 .459 .626 . 349
1997
146 530 110 184 35 0 35 125 324 109 69 1 1 .456 .611 . 347
1998
160 585 109 155 35 2 29 109 281 110 93 7 0 .381 .480 . 265
1999
135 486 74 148 36 0 15 77 229 87 66 3 3 .414 .471 .305
2000
159 582 115 191 44 0 43 143 364 112 94 1 3 .436 .625 . 328
2001
20 68 8 15 3 0 4 10 30 10 12 0 0 .316 .441 .221
2002
148 523 77 132 29 1 28 92 247 88 115 3 0 .361 .472 .25 2
2003
153 546 87 146 35 0 42 105 307 100 115 0 0 .390 .562 . 267
2004
74 240 53 65 16 0 18 49 135 64 57 0 2 .434 .563 .271
2005
34 105 19 23 3 0 12 26 62 16 31 0 0 .315 .590 .219
2006
137 466 77 126 11 0 39 114 254 81 81 0 0 .381 .545 .27 0
2007
155 531 63 147 30 0 26 95 255 81 94 0 0 .377 .480 .277
2008
28 91 12 29 4 1 4 16 47 15 20 0 0 .417 .516 .319
2008
16 60 7 10 1 0 3 11 20 11 13 0 0 .306 .333 .167


Career Totals
2295 8104 1486 2448 493 12 520 1701 4525 1654 1373 32 23 .420 .558 .302
970 OBS; 500 doubles frank Thomas


2001
161 590 112 194 47 4 37 130 360 69 93 1 3 .403 .610 .329
2002
157 590 118 185 40 2 34 127 331 72 69 2 4 .394 .561 .314
2003
157 591 137 212 51 1 43 124 394 79 65 5 1 .439 .667 .359
2004
154 592 133 196 51 2 46 123 389 84 52 5 5 .415 .657 .331
2005
161 591 129 195 38 2 41 117 360 97 65 16 2 .430 .609 .330
2006
143 535 119 177 33 1 49 137 359 92 50 7 2 .431 .671 .331
2007
158 565 99 185 38 1 32 103 321 99 58 2 6 .429 .568 .327
2008
96 338 65 120 25 0 21 65 208 70 35 5 1 .464 .615 .355


Career Totals
1187 4392 912 1464 323 13 303 926 2722 662 487 43 24 .424 .620 .333
only 28; a sick 1050 for OB + slg pujols


1993
22 53 5 9 1 0 2 5 16 2 8 0 0 .200 .302 .170
1994
91 290 51 78 22 0 17 60 151 42 72 4 2 .357 .521 .269
1995
137 484 85 149 26 1 31 107 270 75 112 6 6 .402 .558 .308
1996
152 550 94 170 45 3 33 112 320 85 104 8 5 .399 .582 .309
1997
150 561 99 184 40 0 26 88 302 79 115 2 3 .415 .538 .328
1998
150 571 108 168 35 2 45 145 342 76 121 5 3 .377 .599 .294
1999
147 522 131 174 34 3 44 165 346 96 131 2 4 .442 .663 .333
2000
118 439 92 154 34 2 38 122 306 86 117 1 1 .457 .697 .351
2001
142 529 93 162 33 2 41 125 322 81 147 0 1 .405 .609 .306
2002
120 436 84 152 31 0 33 107 282 73 85 0 0 .450 .647 .349
2003
154 569 117 185 36 1 37 104 334 97 94 3 1 .427 .587 .325
2004
152 568 108 175 44 0 43 130 348 82 124 2 4 .397 .613 .308
2005
152 554 112 162 30 1 45 144 329 80 119 1 0 .388 .594 .292
2006
130 449 79 144 27 1 35 102 278 100 102 0 1 .439 .619 .321
2007
133 483 84 143 33 1 20 88 238 71 92 0 0 .388 .493 .296
2008
100 365 66 109 22 1 20 68 193 52 86 1 0 .398 .529 .299


Career Totals
2050 7423 1408 2318 493 18 510 1672 4377 1177 1629 35 31 .409 .590 .31 2




Rbi’s are sick; slugging is nuts: Manny
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 9:35 pm
 
stats are nice & everything but --

game 7 of the world series & i need a big, big hit - i'm calling manny's name. not bagwell, not the big hurt, not pujols, not a-fraud.

pujols may overtake him some day, if he stays healthy. and that's a big if.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 11:24 pm
 
fuckin crazy trade deadline this year...
Posted: Aug 1, 2008 5:32 am
 
i hate the yankees so much i forgot gay rod


he belongs on the list


what you say about THE one AB, OK, but history and baseball and careers are not so selective: it should be an avalanche of statistics, lives, arcs, comparison, and bagwell looks OK next to manny, esp since some of his career was in astrodome (right?) and 8 years for manny were at fenway.

i also see yr point re pujols career, except he's the 2 or 3 best hitter in NL this year with a bum wing and other than that--easily fixed by surgery--he plays ALL the time. and he's young. he's like a combo of boggs (hits and walks) and albert belle. he could go now to retirement and he's a first ballot. watch manny screw up his career. be fat and pathetic and unwanted, like rove or captain kangaroo
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 12:39 am
 
i think pujols will cream him in 8 years

Pretty bad that you have resort to Pujols to put up an argument versus Manny.

he could go now to retirement and he's a first ballot.

Wrong. Not even close.

Manny has gone from eccentric to full-on psychotic, but he can still rake with anyone.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 4:47 am
 
michael baker you are a fucking moron.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 6:47 am
 
Wrong. Not even close.


28 and he has higher BA, OB, and slugging than any of those guys and he has over 900 runs and 900 ribi's in less than 8 seasons

playing in NL with no protection behind him, without ortiz, DH, and fenway


hell look at those fucking tribe lineups when manny was here: thome murray belle. i wouyld pick up a few ribbie's as well...

Pujol's not close to building a HOF resume????????

he's beyond every hall of famer in comp age or comp years of service

off the top of my head Dimaggio is only one close to doing what he has done in 8 years...

i'm not arguing against manny btw; i'm simply saying there's some comp for best right handed batter


and being called a moron by a cubs fan is a salute
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 7:56 am
 
28 and he has higher BA, OB, and slugging than any of those guys and he has over 900 runs and 900 ribi's in less than 8 seasons

His career stats do not compare favorable to Todd Helton. Helton has played 3 seasons more. So what? Would you put Todd Helton into the Hall of Fame if he retired right now?

The BB thing drive me nuts, too. I don't remember which one is #9 & which one is #10, but on the All-Time list for most BB are Darrell Evans & Eddie Yost, 2 guys who have no hope in mutha fukkin' Hell of sniffin' the Hall.

Yeah, you're right, he'd probably get in if he retired today. Some kinda Kirby Puckett thing or something. Sorry if I overreacted. Hey, what's the goddamn board for? Still, there are guys who have way higher HR & RBI totals that have no or will have no shot at making the Hall like Andres Galarraga, Dwight Evans (poster boy for OBP crap), & Dale Murphy (who won back-to-back MVPs).

Graig Nettles is the American League All-Time HR leader for a 3B (Brooks Robinson only hit 268) plus he won a slew of Gold Gloves. He's in the Hall of Fame. NOT!
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:08 am
 
darrell evens was a great great baseball player in an era of lousy runs scored


i'm not sure why on base percentage bothers you

anyways its pujols BA and Slugging that are remarkable

and he played at sea level not at coors


i'll be back with road splits and helton and helton may have only three more years (hell to pujols that's 400 more runs and RBI's) but helton HAS to be 5/6 years older
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:09 am
 
jesus i love don cheadle

is this the thread about great american actors?
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:15 am
 
Aww right, I looked it up.

Evans & Yost just got passed in All-Time BB by Frank Thomas who has something like 1655. #11 Evans had 1605 & #10 Yost had 1614. Frank Thomas is going to get into the Hall of Fame for 520 HRs & 1700+ RBIs, not for being 9th on the All-Time BB list.

To put it in a wild perspective, that's 80+ BB/yr x 20 yrs. Madcap.

BB are a stat for some hardcore scout who is trying to evaluate a batter on an AB-to-AB basis. He thinks RBIs are a junk stat. (Seriously.) Guys get into the Hall of Fame & win MVPs 'cause they could hit. (Not saying Pujols can't.) It's like they told the Dominicans, Cubans, & Puerto Ricans in the 50s & 60s... Nobody ever walked off the island!
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:19 am
 
This is pretty funny...

We got each other lookin' up stats.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:22 am
 
i love baseball gene!

helton is 7 years older, has 4 more seasons. and plays in the most offensive minded ballpark half the year (with other great hitters) this side of playing golf on the moon.

according to Pete Palmer--who takes into consideration road/home splits--his formula has pujols ALREADY with a score of 468 "Wins" and Helton, 430.

helton's career is over; 28 is the peak of MLB batters.

and i was right: the only baseball player to match Pujols in similar AB's and age in run productivity is dimaggio

and before WWII dimaggio was on pace to be one of the top 3 hiiters of all time

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml


pujols is going to HOF; if he gets a few hitters in his line up he will be top 10.


helton even if he did NOT have coors as his launching pad would be borderline HOF--, but, after all, 35 years old and 1100 RBI's as clean up hitter in juice era ain't that impressive
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:27 am
 
fuck

i think we are talking about DWIGHT EVANS

darrell could not even make all star team
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:29 am
 
according to Pete Palmer--who takes into consideration road/home splits--his formula has pujols ALREADY with a score of 468 "Wins" and Helton, 430.

What in the fuck is that? Now you are really scout overboard! If Galarraga & Helton never get in, it won't be because of this dipshit's formula. It'll be because they didn't hit 500 HRs.

I just think that his career totals aren't there yet, so it would totally take some kinda Kirby Puckett thing. If you were to go by what players did on a purely annual basis, Albert Belle blows your argument out of the water.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:30 am
 
darrell evans DOES have a lot of walks

dwight also--370 on base per cent

plus he was a great fielder, 900 extra base hits

billy williams dave parker kind of hitter
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:32 am
 
i am projecting pujols as HOF'er

and belle at 28 could not match that stuff


for 5 years belle was first ballot hof'er btw

too bad about his head/body though

palmer is thinking man's bill james


hardly a dipshit
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:34 am
 
# btRuns Adjusted Batting Runs - This is the linear weights method pioneered by Pete Palmer. It is a bit more accurate than Runs Created and also handles differing offensive environments more easily. It is adjusted to the park and league the player played in. It is also relative to league average, so negative values mean they were below average for the league. In my calculations, I consider league average without pitchers included. See the ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia for a full description.
# btWins - Batting Wins - Another Pete Palmer tool, this measures the number of wins a player added relative to the league average hitter


palmer takes into consideration both of the year the stas are created in and the home/road split

not THAT bizarre
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:34 am
 
fuck

i think we are talking about DWIGHT EVANS

darrell could not even make all star team


No. I clearly stated which was which earlier in the post.

darrell evans DOES have a lot of walks

dwight also--370 on base per cent


Exactly! Does it help them enough to get into the Hall of Fame? Hell no!
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:36 am
 
not THAT bizarre

You kidding? Insane. Overt bean counter poop. Has this guy ever been to a MLB game?
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:39 am
 
palmer is thinking man's bill james


hardly a dipshit


Meh.

If Galarraga & Helton don't make it into the Hall of Fame, it will be because they didn't hit 500 HRs, not because they failed to live up to the stats of this guy who's hardly a dipshit.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:40 am
 
i meant i was wrong not you about evans. but dwight was a great baseball player in part because of his great eye: walks lead to runs. runs lead to wins.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:42 am
 
You kidding? Insane. Overt bean counter poop. Has this guy ever been to a MLB game?


no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Palmer

the best baseball book i have ever read

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Game-Baseball-Revolutionary-Statistics/dp /038518283X

out of 500!
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:54 am | Edited by: Mullett
 
walks lead to runs. runs lead to wins.

Beauty. It's still true that either Evans, Eddie Yost, or Todd Helton won't wind up in the Hall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Palmer

Hyper-beauty. Lemme try one more time... Andres Galarraga & Todd Helton won't get into the Hall of Fame because they didn't hit 500 HRs not because they failed to live up to this guy's stat machine.

Think I should go back & pick on the Mets pitching staff. With the emergance of Pelfey, they've been good enough to keep going, but the 'pen has absolutely butchered Santana's W-L record.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 4:22 pm
 
28 is the peak of MLB batters.

If someone told that to Casey Blake, it's a good thing for him that he wasn't listening. Ditto with Luke Scott.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 4:25 pm
 
Or Tony Gwynn or Cal Ripken Jr.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 4:30 pm
 
the best baseball book i have ever read

http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Game-Baseball-Revolutionary-Statistics/d



"stats" are not a "game".
while relying on stats may clear up the long-term picture, they are only a predictor not reality.

c.f., the elusive "chemistry" that means, for example, the Tigers are not as good this year as last, despite signing all those stats
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 4:35 pm
 
Let me also say that I think the superficial values placed on 500 HRs or 300 Ws is crap. That's not me; it's the BBWAA. I think Bert Blyleven & Jim Kaat both belong in the Hall. Hell, Whitey Ford only had 236 (less than Mike Mussina) & he's in the Hall.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:26 pm
 

If someone told that to Casey Blake, it's a good thing for him that he wasn't listening. Ditto with Luke Scott.



hence it's an average; if youtake 30 numbers and the average is 22 there will be a lot of numbers that are not 22. anyone here ever take a math class?
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:29 pm
 
"stats" are not a "game".
while relying on stats may clear up the long-term picture, they are only a predictor not reality.

c.f., the elusive "chemistry" that means, for example, the Tigers are not as good this year as last, despite signing all those stats



that book is about re-interpreting stats and i am the last person who ever would rely upon stats versus the beauty and reality of thje game...it's just if someone hits 51 homers nad 37 are at coors field then there has to be a park adjustment.

and why compare an impossible abstraction to quantify (chemistry) with how many hits someone had in a season?
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 8:32 pm
 
I think Bert Blyleven & Jim Kaat
agree


that 500 homer thibng isn't even an issue anymore--paliero ain't getting in; and since we have seen the last of the 20 game winners for awhile that too is a diminished benchmark.

then again, quick: name a plater with 300 wins who absolutely doesn't belong in thew hall?

quick name a 500 homer guy who doesn't belong except for raffy?


sutton?

mel ott?

wrong.
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 10:16 pm
 
hence it's an average; if youtake 30 numbers and the average is 22 there will be a lot of numbers that are not 22. anyone here ever take a math class?

I still don't know what insane SABR crap you are frothing at the crotch about. I know that in MLB & the NFL, it's a good bet that if you haven't had a breakout season by 27, it's unlikely that you'll have one. Doesn't seem to be the case for Ryan Ludwick, though. Jesus, what a year that guy is having.

then again, quick: name a plater with 300 wins who absolutely doesn't belong in thew hall?

A SWING & a miss. Of course anyone with 300 wins belong in the Hall, but plenty of pitchers without that stat belong as well.

quick name a 500 homer guy who doesn't belong except for raffy?

Raffy's not making it 'cause he got caught with his pants down, not because he doesn't have the stats. I guess it's critical that I remind you he had 3000 hits. Raffy stats belong in the Hall. Raffy's everything else does not.

Keep up with me, huh?
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 10:17 pm
 
Michalbaker... In the absence of Diggler, you make a pretty good baseball lapdog.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 1:51 am
 
3000 Hit / 500 HR Club

Hank Aaron - 3771 H / 755 HR
Willie Mays - 3283 H / 660 HR
Eddie Murray - 3255 H / 504 HR
Rafael Palmeiro - 3020 H / 569 HR

Don't look for others. They ain't there.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 5:59 am
 
raffy doesn't belong because he's a compiler: never that outstanding. i would not mind if he gets in. sosa is getting in as well. how can we let one in and not the other? they both cheated.

i know tons of people who hate sutton's being in HOF.

about 28: 28 is way too old in NFL for skill positions to be having their best year. i'm not talking about breakout year. why are you? i'm simply saying that if you take 1000 baseball players their best years will be 27/28 on average. yes, you can find deviations. but it is an average.

i am not SABRian: my math isn't that good
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:03 am
 
oh yeah?
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:03 am
 
interesting.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:13 am | Edited by: michael baker
 
but i can add and compare. your perpetual mention of yost--i never said a thing about him and, duh ,looking at one thing in a person's stats does not make him a HOFer): whom are you arguing with: i would never say the opposite. EG i'm sure sam mcdowell had some of the best K's per nine inning ratios in the world. too bad he was a drunk, erratic, and played for the inept tribe.

back to yost.

i would describe--because i am inferior to yr intellect and am a simple lapdog--a successful AB as getting on base. sorry to revolutionize the game for you. another important aspect would be a sacrifice. hitting into a DP or moving runners over (back when games were 3/2, not 11-5) is a no brainer.

right?

well back to yr punching bag yost.

3700 times he came to bat and was successful. other contemporary IFers (who are in the hall of fame)

Rizzuto 2400 times
reese 3300
nellie fox 3500
red schoendiest 3000
rabbit maranville 3600


his productive at bats (hits, walks, HBP) dwarf rizzuto's, lap red's, and are better than the other three. it's critical i remind you that getting on base is a positive thing. not negative. and doing it 3600 times (as a .240 hitter!) is kind of special.[i]





yost had no power and wasn't a great fielder, but he got the fuck on base at a higher percentage than all but a few MLers.

and thanks for the update: pitchers like sandy koufax who do not have 300 wins belong in the Hall. wow!


as to this thread: mamy is a great hitter. gay rod is bettor; pujols is better. and bagwell was close.

as baseball players manny ain't even in the same conversation as those three.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:15 am
 
is this the thread about great american actors?

i was hoping it was gonna be about eric roberts, or jon voight at the very least
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:57 am
 
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 7:56 am
 
raffy doesn't belong because he's a compiler: never that outstanding.

Quite possibly the oddest thing you've said so far. Consider the following:

1)Didn't you bother to read the 3000 H / 500 HR Club I posted so generously for you? If it was just compiling, how come it's only been compiled by 4 people in the history of the sport?

2)From 1993 - 2003 (11 seasons) Raffy hit 433 HRs & knocked in 1266 RBIs. That's averaging 39+ HRs & 115+ RBIs which is an outstanding season, nevermind stringing 11 together. He should make you totally wet from '99 to '02 'cause he averaged 101+ BBs for those seasons.

i know tons of people who hate sutton's being in HOF.

'Tards. All of 'em. I never made any such claim. Sutton has every right to sign "HoF" after his name if he so chooses. For fun, watch your friends go apeshit when you tell them Omar Vizquel will be 1st ballot HoFer.

looking at one thing in a person's stats does not make him a HOFer):

It most certainly can, though. Ruth 714. Aaron 755. Mays 660. Cobb 4189. Clemente 3000. Does anyone even know how many HRs Clemente hit, how many RBIs he had, or how many BB he drew? Do you think Craig Biggio is going to make the Hall of Fame for anything other than 3000+ hits, even though he creamed more doubles than Hank Aaron & has more XBH than Mickey Mantle. Do you think Paul Molitor got into the Hall for anything more than hits?

28 is way too old in NFL for skill positions to be having their best year. i'm not talking about breakout year. why are you?

What can I say? You've puked so much stuff up here, it's nigh impossible to decipher it all.

i am inferior to yr intellect and am a simple lapdog

Ah, c'mon, I'm just picking on you like I would Diggler. Of course I don't think you're dumb. In fact, I think you're an interesting guy. However, I do believe you & a lot of stat nerds are sucked into the value of a BB. If it really held the weight that you are putting on it, guys like Darrell Evans, Dwight Evans, & Todd Helton would be 1st ballot HoFers. As it turns out, they are not.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 7:56 pm
 
raffy doesn't belong because he's a compiler: never that outstanding.

Quite possibly the oddest thing you've said so far. Consider the following:



scroll the way down for my real beliefs re raffy

http://www.goner-records.com/board/index.php?action=vthread&forum=4&to pic=30980&page=0#msg427619
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 9:32 pm
 
Well, over the span of both threads regarding Palmeiro, you've gone from

let the cheatin fucker in

to

raffy doesn't belong because he's a compiler: never that outstanding.

Flip-flopping of that caliber belongs in Washington DC. You are the man.


You still haven't come up with an answer for me on this BB thing, either. You act like you've found some incredible way to evaluate hitters, yet you have not advocated the Hall of Fame for people who meet your criteria. Get back to me when you decide or change your ming again.
Posted: Aug 6, 2008 6:18 am
 
arguing both sides is what i teach btw; a rogers argument: i'd explain it but chicago kevin would not understand and then he would cry like the mocking unfunny bitch that he is


and those two threads are a distant apart: what you call flip flop i call evolution of thought! i was/am hoping for a tell all/apology from palmiero.

you know something like he'd get blow jobs from
chicago kevin
Posted: Aug 6, 2008 11:21 am
 
arguing both sides is what i teach btw

I see. Congress awaits. Maybe even the Republic nomination for President.


i was/am hoping for a tell all/apology from palmiero.

I like you, michaelbaker, so I am hoping you are not holding your breath.


I just believe when it comes to BB/OBP, the people who think it's such a wonderful stat don't support the players who are the poster boys for that line of thinking such as a Darrell Evans, such as a Dwight Evans, such as a Todd Helton, or such as a Jason Giambi. If a player tallies 3000 hits or clobbers 500 HRs, no one gives a rat's ass how many times he drew a BB. If a player does not tally 3000 hits or 500 HRs, they're not getting into the Hall regardless of how many BBs they drew.

I do think BB/OBP is modestly fascinating, but I just don't put the premium value on it that you do. In Frank Thomas' 1st full season, he notched 178 hits & 138 BB in 158 games. 316 times on base / 158 games is averaging 2 times on base/game for the whole season. Incredible. Also, a season of Hits + BB = 300+ was a favorite stat of mine, too. Boggs & Thomas are the only players I can name of the top of my head that did it with any kind of regularity. The closest Pujols ever came to it was 2005 when 195 hits & 97 BB put him on base 292 times. This is not being pointed out as a knock on Pujols, but an emphasis on just how rare the feat really is.


Where on this planet are you? Why haven't we been to a game yet?
Posted: Aug 7, 2008 12:42 am
 
By the way, Manny is back to being Manny. 2 HRs & a .600 BA since the trade to LA.
Posted: Aug 7, 2008 3:08 am
 
And Casey Blake not only has an HR, but is sporting a sizzling .375 BA since the move to LA LA land. He has plate discipline to a fault meaning he strikes out a lot with the bat on his shoulder.
Posted: Aug 8, 2008 3:26 pm
 
Manny is back to being Manny

His stats before Friday's game as a Dodger?

13-23, 4 HR, 9 RBI, .545 average. When you are batting .565, BB definitely not exciting. He has 3, though, & an OBP of .615.

Hey, Braden Looper's on my Fantasy team, so I really need your boy Pujols to knock in a run & make a winner out of him. Jim Edmonds has made Looper pay today with 2 HRs. Thankfully, they were only solo taters.
Posted: Aug 11, 2008 6:58 pm
 
Hmmmmm
Manny showed up in SF
and is no longer Manny.
Distracted by boy toys?
Posted: Aug 12, 2008 12:07 am
 
Manny showed up in SF
and is no longer Manny.


On Saturday, he had a 3 hit game. That's definitely Manny being Manny.

That game was beautiful. Broxton blowing the game for me really worked out well in my favor.
Posted: Aug 12, 2008 11:40 am
 
3 hit game.

His line for this huge "rivalry" series --- 4 for 14 (.285) with a big 2 RBIs.

But it's true, he's a game changer and could be what the Dodgerbums need to climb to the top of the NL West.

But dem bums are still dem bums --- they rule w/poor infield play.

the NL West is a sorry bunch. Still cannot figure out how the Rockies did it last year.
Posted: Aug 12, 2008 1:14 pm
 
I'm doing my part to get people to start calling the LA NL baseball team The Trolley Dodgers. Basically just by calling them that myself whenever I can.
Posted: Sep 12, 2008 10:54 am
 

Where on this planet are you? Why haven't we been to a game yet?

weehawken


come christen the new stadium next year when tribe rolls in


i was just looking at pujols' numbers again


indeed 300 times is crazy on base production

pujols over EIGHT years averages about 90 walks and 190 hits

sick


and back to manny/alberrt (the two greatest right handed power hitters of the last 30 or so years)

as of now, at the end of their seasons when they were 28 pujols has

930 runs to 750
960 rbis' to 800
320 hr's to 230
330 2b's to 260

manny is first ballot but he played in fenway, had albert belle and ortiz among others in the same line up and albert: albert is alone, like amealia earhart

also: another gauge? 8 times (including obviously this year) alberrt has been top 5 MVP vote getter in 8 years!

manny by the age of 28 only had one.


i want to stress here: albert pujols might retire as top five hitter of all time.
Posted: Sep 18, 2008 11:17 pm
 
Ramirez, who hit .299 with a .529 slugging percentage and 68 RBIs in 100 games in Boston, has seen his production skyrocket since joining the Dodgers. In 44 games in L.A., he's hitting .400 (64-for-160) with a .738 slugging percentage and 44 RBIs entering Thursday's games. He's batting .330 for the season overall
Posted: Sep 19, 2008 12:19 am
 
manny by the age of 28 only had one.

Not because he didn't have the stats.
Posted: Sep 19, 2008 6:06 am
 

Not because he didn't have the stats.



BECAUSE HE WASN'T A MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
Posted: Sep 19, 2008 10:57 am
 
BECAUSE HE WASN'T A MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Need me to explain this one to you, too? No sweat.

BBWAA is a mostly political bunch who couldn't hit a water if they fell out of a boat. Joe Theismann once said that a championship is better than an MVP or the Hall of Fame because winning a championship gives a player the opportunity to prove himself as the best versus his peers. To win awards, the player is up against a bunch of old guys who might be having bad hair days. This is further evidenced by the absurd notion that the player who wins the MVP must be on a team that seriously vied for a playoff spot.

In 1995, at age 23, Manny won a Silver Slugger award. An OF that wins a Silver Slugger award for an OF in either league is a viable candidate, even if there are other more worthy candidates. Indeed, Manny got a few votes.

In 1996, at age 24, Manny surpassed his power numbers from the previous year & didn't even get a vote.

Check this out, this might be my favorite example of anyone...

In 1998, Joey Belle put up these numbers:

200 hits, 49 HRs, 152 RBIs, 328 BA, 399 OBP, 1.054 OPS

That year, Juan Gonzalez put up these numbers:

193 hits, 45 HR, 157 RBIs, 318 BA, 366 OBP, .996 OPS

Gonzo finished 1st in AL MVP balloting. Belle finished 8th. Are you really going to tell me that Belle's season doesn't sport MVP caliber numbers when they are actually better than the guy who won it & that he's out anything for not finishing in the top 5?

The point is, players put up incredible numbers & don't make the top 5 all the time. If someone isn't voting for Manny, it's because they don't like Manny's hair, attitude, or glove, not because Manny can't mash or didn't mash.

By the way, who's protecting Manny in LA's lineup? Casey Blake? Garciaparra? Russell Martin? Jeff Kent? Andre Ethier? Matt Kemp can't hold a candle to Ryan Ludwick's season. Rick Ankiel would've been far & away the best bat on the Dodgers if he played for them this year.

Take it easy on the caps. Anyone reading this column knows you are having a torrid affair with Pujols. You should tell him about it some day.

come christen the new stadium next year when tribe rolls in

Was just in NYC @ Yankee Stadium. As a result, I am not sure if I'll make it to the city or not next year. I think our out of state baseball plans might be something more like Mpls/Milwaukee or StL/KC so I can go to Arthur Bryant's. Would still like to catch up with you sometime for a game. The newly posting Guitarvis is a fantastic gent with which to drink at a ballpark.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c190/gmullett/IMGP3476.jpg
Posted: Sep 19, 2008 1:24 pm
 
who's protecting Manny

big article about how Manny has brought manna to LA's lineup. Ethier in particular has been spooning up the gravy.

No matter how you look at it, Manny pick-up was huge for Dodgerbums.
but he has to come up huge in first round play-offs or LA goes down in 4.

will they play Cubs?
Posted: Sep 19, 2008 2:23 pm | Edited by: michael baker
 
i don't love albert; i see what i see


and for a person who hates numbers and statistics you sure quote a lot of them


my faves will be kingman and thome's career HR totals: awesome. but they ain't getting in

that 98 year btw is pretty fascinating

belle had the numbers but Juan did get his team into the playoffs and albert didn't

that is a HUGE weighted concern and clearly enough a factor separating two graat seasons

alas: mo vaughn and jeter (in a hard defensive position) and both in the playoffs had tremendous years as well

and find me when BBWA had top 5 players soooooo wrong; what do i care about the NFL or the sour grapes of theismann? might as well throw in the oscars as contributory evidence. and theismann went to ND. ergo, he's a whining pussy.

in other words: pick a season and find top 5 MVP candidadtes and tell me THREE of them are wrong? four of them? Two of them?

pujols is dwarfing manny at the same time as their careers. those are the statistics i am talking about. and so did a rod. once again: i just don't think manny is the greatest right handed batter of the last 25 years. the third best? sure! maybe...

also--manny is having a great month. so? i was actually talking about an eight year career.

and you think BBWA took a few points off for not running things out, incompetent base running, lackadaisical defense, a mediocre arm, and selfish and pouty mannerisms, in and out of clubhouse?

The MVP is after all for baseball players, not RBI men. you are the one that hates On Base percentage, not me. you can't possibly tell me now that only slugging matters.

i like runs scored. that's a good statistic.

and griff and garciaparra had helluva good 98 campaigns as well. great year in the AL.

caps were a mistake, not a symbol of emphasis or yelling.
Posted: Sep 20, 2008 11:29 am
 
a person who hates numbers and statistics you sure quote a lot of them

Where the hell did I ever say that?

thome's career HR totals: awesome. but they ain't getting in

Are you talking about the Hall of Fame? Jim Thome is totally getting into the Hall of Fame. If you don't believe so, you are only kidding yourself.

you think BBWA took a few points off for not running things out, incompetent base running, lackadaisical defense, a mediocre arm, and selfish and pouty mannerisms, in and out of clubhouse?

Totally. If you don't, you are kidding yourself even further. Look at Mark McGwire. He far & away has career numbers that are Hall of Fame worthy. The BBWAA just doesn't like him. In the 2008 Hall of Fame balloting, Lee Smith notched 235 votes putting him on 43.3% of the ballots. McGwire scored 128 votes putting him on 23.6% of the ballots. Do you really think that Lee Smith was that much better than Mark McGwire? Do you have some long string of Palmer equations that explains why that balloting makes perfect sense? C'mon, man...

what do i care about the NFL or the sour grapes of theismann?

I think Theismann is a douche, but he's right about that. Writers who vote for the Hall of Fame or MVPs (NFL, same as in MLB) are highly political & prone to bad hair days. If you don't believe so, fine, but then you've gone from kidding yourself to living in a vacuum.


belle had the numbers but Juan did get his team into the playoffs and albert didn't

Another pile of poop in association with MVP voting. Why should the MVP have to come from a team in a playoff race? It's ridiculous. Anyone who thinks Grady Sizemore's ABs or Josh Hamilton's ABs aren't meaningful clearly hasn't seen them play. Offensively or defensively, Sizemore handles every pitch like his back's on fire. Hamilton handles every pitch like it might be his last. That's wisdom from an ex-junkie.

The MVP is after all for baseball players, not RBI men. you are the one that hates On Base percentage, not me. you can't possibly tell me now that only slugging matters.

Now you are just talking complete shit. Seriously, if OBP mattered that much, Ortiz would have lapped Morneau in the 2006 MVP ballotting. Second, where in the hell did I say I hated OBP or that only slugging matters?

Michaelbaker, I like you, but at this juncture, you are inventing evidence & grabbing at air to make points that don't exist.

I don't hate Pujols either. All I said was that if he retired tomorrow, his career stats don't compare favorably with Todd Helton, which is true. If he makes it into the Hall, it would be on some kind of Kirby Puckett type deal and I never said he wasn't worthy of that, either. Pujols has the eye of a leadoff hitter, the BA of a #3 hitter, & can mash like a cleanup hitter.

We were thinking of waiting 'til the new Twins stadium is done before going to Mpls, but the Indians play at Wrigley next year, so we may have to opt for a Chicago/Milwaukee/Mpls trip next June. Everyone we know who has been there, including Twins fans, talks poop about the Baggie Dome.

caps were a mistake, not a symbol of emphasis or yelling.

OK. No sweat.
Posted: Sep 27, 2008 8:17 am | Edited by: martin bernard baker AKA martini
 
I used to think thome did not belong in HOF but

17 post season home runs
5 all stars
4 top ten MVP
18th career slugging
540 HR’s
25 th doubles
Great One base (14 in BB)
37th runs created--"that is a VERY large statistic


The points against: speed, DH years, average batting average, 0-2 in World Series, 229 BA in post season


I just don’t know. I love him of course and would pick him high for a Sunday afternoon softball game but I am torn. Getting the white sox deep into the playoffs this year would help as would another solid season or so, wherein his career rbi’s and career runs scored rankings would soar--even two mediocre seasons (160 runs; 160 rbi’s) would put him into top 30 and top 40 respectively

A def high maybe then

Another interesting case is Sheffield, a man whom I hate

Very nice stats:

250 steals, 500 HR’s
9 all stars
6 times top ten MVP--one player of the year
1600 runs
1600 rbi’s
32nd in total bases
22 runs created (that is REAL high)
Infielder 8 or so years
Never a full time DH until this year (? I Think)


But

No championships
19 rbi’s in 44 playoff games (WTF? Batting 4th or 5th? Are you serious?0
Horrible teammate
Steroid allegations
Posted: Sep 28, 2008 10:39 pm | Edited by: Mullett
 
No championships

That's nothing. BBWAA poop

19 rbi’s in 44 playoff games (WTF? Batting 4th or 5th? Are you serious?

If the playoffs meant anything, Jack Morris & Kirk Gibson would be serious Hall candidates. Gibson's HR off of Gossage in the 1984 World Series was an iconic moment until he hit the HR off of Eck in 1988. After that, it was really the only WS HR shown in highlight reels, moreso than Fisk.

Horrible teammate

More BBWAA poop. The Hall should be what a player accomplished, not a popularity contest. Believe me when I say I do not like Sheff. The Indians have been plunked 100 times this year & never charged the mound. Sheff's charged an Indians' pitcher twice this year as a result of getting hit.

Steroid allegations

Sooner or later BBWAA is going to have to face the music on McGwire & Clemens. Once this happens, others will follow.

Wanna know the Sheff stat that I find modestly awesome?

1434 BB/1123 K. Unreal for anyone, let alone someone who waves the bat as violently as he does. Check out his '96 season when that ratio was 142/66. Staggering.
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 10:51 am
 
who's got the best roids??
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 11:22 am
 
After that, it was really the only WS HR shown in highlight reels, moreso than Fisk.



bill mazeroski begs to differ. maybe joe carter too.
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 10:19 pm
 
bill mazeroski begs to differ. maybe joe carter too.

Kudos for the references, but neither are shown on highlight reels like Gibson's HR. Not even close. Mazeroski's HR maybe gets shown once every 10 years anymore. Carter's, even though it ended the Series, isn't shown 1/10th of what Gibson's HR is shown.

They don't even wait for the post season to show Gibson's HR. They roll that during spring training.
Posted: Oct 1, 2008 6:02 am | Edited by: michael baker
 
I think the angels and the red sox are the two best teams, period. If Beckett--THE best pitcher in a big game, not that Santana dude who seems to have peaked at 26, like Paul McCartney--is even slightly below normal, then angels in a squeaker.

Either team will be the fave in subsequent series because of their crazy starting pitcher depth.

Sabathia is a horse but without sheets I find it hard to pick the brewers. Fuck philly phans: brewers, if they do not throw Howard anything close to a strike.

Cubs kill dodgers.

Tampa in a close one over the White Sox.

Angels over Tampa; Cubs over Brewers.

Angels in six over the goat-hating Cubs. Suffer another century. I care?
Posted: Oct 1, 2008 12:32 pm
 
Those five game series mean catch a hot team.
all bets are off
Posted: Oct 1, 2008 12:36 pm
 
but neither are shown on highlight reels like Gibson's HR. Not even close.


i guess we see different "highlight reels".
Posted: Oct 1, 2008 12:41 pm
 
Highlight reels? Sweatpants doesn't even have a TV. He lost it to one of his ex-wives.
Posted: Oct 1, 2008 8:59 pm
 
Sweatpants doesn't even have a TV.


wrong again cunt face
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 2:59 am
 
i guess we see different "highlight reels".

Gibson's HR is in a MasterCard comercial. Carter's HR & Mazeroski's HR definitely are not. Watch a little MLB & one day you'll be up to speed.

Highlight reels? Sweatpants doesn't even have a TV. He lost it to one of his ex-wives.

Hey, everyone's favorite Mets fan is back to remind us that he was full of his own dump. How do you like Pedro now? Maybe you like Orlando Hernandez better?

Sure the Mets collapsed again, but at least you can say they were consistant. Hope you like Minaya. He just got a contract extension.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 3:00 am
 
Manny just padded his all-time post season HR record. Where's Pujols on that list? Just askin'.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 5:01 am
 
not sure what is more interesting, first night of the post or riggler showing up. above and beyond another collapse the season he predicted was so fucking wrong. i guess something just happens when he sits in fronf of a computer.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 5:48 am
 
Manny just padded his all-time post season HR record. Where's Pujols on that list? Just askin'.
No championships

That's nothing. BBWAA poop




ernie banks has no post season HR's;
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 5:51 am | Edited by: michael baker
 
i guess we see different "highlight reels".

Gibson's HR is in a MasterCard comercial. Carter's HR & Mazeroski's HR definitely are not. Watch a little MLB & one day you'll be up to speed.


]
i don't watch commercials but i have seen aaron's 715th more than any other HR. by far.

docs. espn specials. filler. pre game stuff. during the game. cater's HR has almost disappeared but i am sure maz's gets heavy roataion in and near beaver valley.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 6:48 am
 
ernie banks has no post season HR's;

& he's in the Hall of Fame. I just don't think your post-season remarks about Thome & Sheff are of any real consequence. Like I said, if the post-season meant anything, Jack Morris & Kirk Gibson would be high on HoF voters lists.

I do appreciate post-season stats. Pitchers are facing the best line ups & batters are facing the best staffs. I'm kidding about Pujols' post-season HR totals, too. I was actually surprised to see that he's played in 11 post-season series. I think that's more of an indication of how weak the NL Central is.



Hey, where's Riggler? Here's the guy the Mets gave up Brian Bannister for...

SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic -- New York Mets pitcher Ambiorix Burgos was driving an SUV when it slammed into two women who later died of their injuries, police said.

Local police still were searching for Burgos on Wednesday.

Police Col. Eulogio Taveras said Josefina Minaya Martinez, 38, and Angely Fana, 29, were struck Tuesday evening by a new Hummer registered to the 24-year-old reliever in his Caribbean homeland. The women died at a hospital in Nagua, a town 112 miles north of the capital, Santo Domingo.

"The investigation indicates that Burgos was the driver of the [vehicle] that hit the women," Taveras said in a statement, adding several witnesses identified Burgos as the driver.

Although a relative of the right-hander, Edwin Silvestre Sanchez, told police investigators he was the driver at fault, Taveras indicated Sanchez likely will be considered an accomplice.

"We are extremely disturbed by the reports regarding the player's potential involvement in the hit-and-run accident that unfortunately killed two women in the Dominican Republic," the Mets said in a statement. "We take this matter very seriously and have begun an internal investigation to ascertain the facts. Our thoughts and sympathies are with the families of the victims."

The crash is the latest trouble for Burgos, who spent the entire season on the disabled list while recovering from elbow ligament replacement surgery.

He was arrested last month in New York on assault and harassment charges after being accused of throwing his girlfriend to the ground. Police said the injured girlfriend was treated at a hospital and released.

Prosecutors said Burgos appeared in court on those charges but did not enter a plea. He's due in U.S. court again Oct. 23. He faces up to a year in jail if convicted of the more serious misdemeanor assault charge.

Burgos hasn't pitched in the major leagues since last year. He appeared in the minors in August while on a rehabilitation assignment.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 7:57 am
 
but i have seen aaron's 715th more than any other HR. by far.


probably a product of growing up in boston but i've definitely seen carlton's fisk off pat darcy more than any other homerun. not even close.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 7:58 am
 
carlton's fisk? ugh, need coffee.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 10:31 am
 
probably a product of growing up in boston but i've definitely seen carlton's fisk off pat darcy more than any other homerun.


For a series they lost. Hooray.

Did anyone see TBS signing off after the Dodgers/Cubs game last night? They played Gibson's HR on a tapeloop (L.A.'s last Game 1 win) which was especially funny 'cause Dennis Eckersley of TBS's broadcast team was not amused.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 10:37 am
 
Did anyone see TBS signing off after the Dodgers/Cubs game last night?

since i don't have cable i went to a bar i used to frequent to see the game but didn't notice the sign off. i may have been outside smoking though. cubs lost then the bosox game was on. i was reminded once again that despite loving baseball i absolutely despise 90% of baseball fans.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 11:10 am
 
i absolutely despise 90% of baseball fans.

Starting with Mullet and Sweatpants. Mullet sure does talk a lot of smack for a fat guy with a bowlcut whose team hasn't won nothing in over 50 years.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 11:30 am
 
despite loving baseball i absolutely despise 90% of baseball fans


vs., say, 99% of Football fans?
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 11:33 am
 
i can't afford football tickets so football fans never enter my thinking. thanks to the 162 game season (vs a 16 game NFL season) baseball tix are still somewhat within my grasp. but then i wander into a bar full of cubs fans and i remember "oh yeah, they're mostly dbags".
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 11:56 am
 
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 3:21 pm
 
Manny is still Manny. Joe Torre is still Joe Torre. The Cubs are still the Cubs and The Red Socks are still The Red Socks. The Phillies also still have The National League MVP and he ain't gonna let them lose to the lowly Brewers.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 3:28 pm
 
if the red sox get by the angels i don't see anyone stopping them.
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 6:01 pm
 
Phillies v. Rays anyone?

I say YES
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 6:02 pm
 
cubs fans and i remember "oh yeah, they're mostly dbags".


cubs fans are not baseball fans, they're fans of "losing" in general
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 10:02 pm
 
Mullet sure does talk a lot of smack for a fat guy with a bowlcut whose team hasn't won nothing in over 50 years.

I see that you are pulling this "bowl haircut" out of your ass, much like your knowledge of good starting rotations.

Besides, I've watched the Reds win 3 World Series in my lifetime, as many as your lame Mets & BloSox combined.

Check it out, yo! $137,000,000+ will get you a pile of non-playoff making suck! Billy Wagner ties them up so badly, they probably won't be able to sign Frankie Rodriguez.

Salary (US$)
1. Carlos Beltran 18,622,809
2. Johan Santana 16,984,216
3. Carlos Delgado 16,000,000
4. Pedro Martinez 11,813,351
5. Billy Wagner 10,500,000
6. Moises Alou 7,500,000
7. Orlando Hernandez 7,000,000
8. Oliver Perez 6,500,000
9. Luis Castillo 6,250,000
10. David Wright 5,250,000
11. Brian Schneider 4,900,000
12. Jose Reyes 4,375,000
13. Scott Schoeneweis 3,600,000
14. Ryan Church 2,000,000
15. Mike Pelfrey 1,987,500
16. Ramon Castro 1,975,000
17. Endy Chavez 1,800,000
18. Luis Ayala 1,700,000
19 a. Matt Wise 1,200,000
19 b. Aaron Heilman 1,200,000
21. Marlon Anderson 1,050,000
22. Pedro Feliciano 1,025,000
23. Damion Easley 950,000
24. Duaner Sanchez 850,000
25. John Maine 450,000
26. Ambiorix Burgos 415,000
27. Angel Pagan 401,500
28. Joe Smith 398,000
29. Jason Vargas 394,000
Total Team Salary: 137,391,376
Posted: Oct 2, 2008 10:46 pm
 
Manny...

2 playoff games in 2008; 2 HRs.
Posted: Oct 3, 2008 11:44 am
 
Can Angels battle back v. Red Sox and show them the error of their manny-less ways?

Big Bad Vlad = Mr. June
Posted: Oct 3, 2008 12:48 pm
 
Torre is not still Torre. Did you see him do the crazy handshake stuff with manny?! he's so relaxed it's ridiculous. california has been good to him.
Posted: Oct 3, 2008 1:27 pm
 
$137,000,000+


with luxury tax more like 155 and look how crazily underpaid jose and wright are!!
Posted: Oct 4, 2008 12:10 pm | Edited by: chicago kevin
 
Can Angels battle back v. Red Sox and show them the error of their manny-less ways?


i think this sums it up.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 11:01 am
 
Can't believe The Red Sox lost last night. Was up till 1am watching. The Mets would've kicked The Brewers or Phillies asses in post-season (like they did head to head during the regular season). Rays/White Sox series is a real yawner. Still pulling for Dodgers (hope Mets can land Lowe and Manny in the off season) and Red Sox.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 12:05 pm
 
The Mets would've kicked The Brewers or Phillies asses in post-season


maybe but they were 6/7 against dodgers and cubs and they obviously cannot win a pressure filled game in september the last two years. i don't know why someone can say BECAUSE they can't win late season that team will win in october. mets are pussies. and without wagner and maine i'd take phillies over them all day. unless you still think pedro belongs in the ML. i don't.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 12:23 pm
 
Mets can land Lowe and Manny

I think Manny will be in Hollyweed forever. they love him there and the feeling appears to be mutual.

Santa Ana freeway series appears to be dead. Angels have to win 2 more in a row? I don't think so.....

and then they'd have to persevere against the Rays.
but what do I know about the AL? they play that weird game where there's 10 players on the field, and the coaches bat or something like that
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 12:24 pm
 
Pedro can still pitch in the majors. It usually takes a year or two to recover from rotator cuff surgery. Plus his father was sick and died during the season. Not saying you can't knock him for his numbers the last 2 seasons but there were extenuating circumstances. And he did come back early last year to try and help the team when he probably shouldn't have been pitching at all. He is one of the top 5 or 10 pitchers of all time no matter what anybody says. I like him. Don't know if he'll be back on The Mets or not but I'd take him as a fifth starter or something. Either way the Mets need to get Derek Lowe or somebody for next year (not Sabathia. Talk about post-season chokers...). And Manny.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 12:24 pm
 
I think Manny will be in Hollyweed forever. they love him there and the feeling appears to be mutual.


he's a boras client so he'll go to whomever puts up the most money a la a-rod in arlington.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 12:31 pm
 
If I was Manny or Derek Lowe I'd stay in LA too. No pressure, good young team, Joe Torre. The Mets are a mess.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 2:03 pm
 
pedro's no doubt one of the 5-10 best of the past 10 years.

all time? probably not even in the top 50. certainly not in the top 25.

who ever gets sabathia will be dealing with arm troubles within the next 2-3 years. too many innings pitched last year & this one.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 4:07 pm
 
Pedro has highest winning percentage, lowest ERA and lowest Opp BA of any pitcher lifetime. He is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is regarded as Top 10 all time pitcher by many authorities (Quickly Googled randomly and Forbes.com has him 8 ). I have seen many of the supposed all time Top 10 in person (Seaver, Ryan, Carlton, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Maddux) and I would definately rate him above Johnson, Maddux and even possibly Clemens. Maybe even Carlton too. Then again at his peak Dwight Gooden was possibly the greatest I ever saw (and I saw him a lot starting with his first game at Shea all the way to getting shelled in the playoffs in 88 against Hershiser and your precious Kirk Gibson (who smashed a pinch hit 12th inning homer to bury the Mets "dynasty.")
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 4:28 pm
 
pedro, at the top of his game, was the best ever. his 2000 season was ungodly. 0.737 whip? 1.74 ERA when the league ERA was 5.07? baa .167? fucking nuts.

and i'll take a 17 year career with over 3,100 k's and an ERA under 2.95
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 4:57 pm
 
Plus Pedro was a 5-11, 160 lb. dude going up against 250 lb. steroid-crazed monsters hitting a juiced ball in smaller ballparks. He woulda won 20 games in 2006 if it wasn't for the Mets lousy bullpen (same as Johan this year). As it was he led the Mets to a first round win over The Dodgers in the playoffs. Then he blew out his rotator cuff and still had the heart to come back early to try and help the team and everybody wants to write him off. I love watching him pitch even this year. The last week of the season he only gave up 3 runs in 6 innings the game he pitched. In his prime I never saw anybody with the pinpoint accuracy of Pedro.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 8:43 pm
 
Forbes.com has him 8


never trust a business mag

Plus Pedro was a 5-11, 160 lb. dude going up against 250 lb. steroid-crazed monsters hitting a juiced ball in smaller ballparks.


and maddox was a big guy?

Pedro has highest winning percentage, lowest ERA and lowest Opp BA of any pitcher lifetime.


this is almost laughable, but you're close on ERA: he is 139th; 7th winning percentage; 8th on fewest hits per nine innings.


yes from 97-2002 an all timer except one year, but a top ten pitcher of all time in career?

he had 17 shutouts; he had 214 wins. all time?

for contemporaries i'd rate clemons, randy, and clemons more impressive--check out maddox's era in the ENTIRE 90's against league.

for immortals:

pedro ain't
walter johnson
christy matheson
carl hubbell
lefty grove

or from the 60's
carlton
fergie
koufax
gibson


i see him as a juan marichal: tough, brilliant, but meteroric, not sustained.

and yes i know koufax was too, but he was koufax, and even skinnier than pedro.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 9:50 pm
 
yes from 97-2002 an all timer except one year, but a top ten pitcher of all time in career?

he had 17 shutouts; he had 214 wins. all time?



c'mon dickbrain, shutouts mean shit, he can't control when a manager pulls him. compare him to any pitcher whose career started when his did for that. and wins? that's a TEAM stat fucknut.

as far as pitching goes i'll take him any day of the week and twice on sunday. you are such a fucking retard.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 9:51 pm
 
A FUCKING RETARD.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 10:03 pm
 
wins don't matter in pitching? what do you measure? size of an anus? once again being called a retard by an illiterate is a compliment. fuck you. and i have no idea why this has to be so personal--what have i ever said to you or done to you--but if you are so tough with the name calling say it to my face.

come on over pussy.you have never had an original thought. maybe you can compensate for yr small mind with a big punch. doubt it. pussy

oh, but you are right. shutouts are managers' decisions. (!!!)

as if pedro doesn't have a say. 17 years. 17 shutouts. oh yeah. greatest pitcher of all time.

fucking dumbass.


c'mon dickbrain, shutouts mean shit, he can't control when a manager pulls him. compare him to any pitcher whose career started when his did for that.


and that's a comma splice. learn to write. think this: good sentences help good thinking.

illiterate cunt.
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 10:09 pm
 

as far as pitching goes i'll take him any day of the week and twice on sunday



uh? compared to clemons? is this some hackneyed granny homily? twice on sunday? is that an obscure reference to the number of tricks yr mom serves up on the south side? seriously. we are talking baseball now, not ghetto sex.

oh, just so you know, johnson has 37 shutouts, maddox 35, glavine 25, mussina, 23, and schilling 20. those are contemporaries. those are comparisons. is that what you meant, cunt?
Posted: Oct 6, 2008 10:18 pm
 
i'm the best comma splicer of all time, there is no competition. pretty fucking great random: punctuator; too. you ill-roasted eggs"""
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 11:32 am
 
Alright, checked the stats. Pedro has over 3,100 strikeouts, 2.91 ERA and 214 wins. He won 20 games twice and won 60 games in 3 consecutive years once (23 sandwiched by 19 and 18). He once had 13 complete games in a season. His lifetime ERA puts him in the neighborhood of Gibson (tied), Marichal and Seaver. I would rate him above Clemens and Maddux (total compiler. Smoltz was better. They used to give those Braves pitchers an extra half a foot on either side of the plate back in the day) maybe not Carlton not Seaver. Koufax is probably ahead of him too. Maybe Jenkins. Bob Gibson? It's hard to say. But he's definately not 25 or 50th!
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 11:50 am | Edited by: Admin
 
and that's a comma splice. learn to write.

ok, when is the lesson on capitalization?

you are the biggest fucking moron on this board which is saying something considering brad x still posts here. your opinion on everything, from music to sports to politics is ill-informed at best.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 11:54 am
 
yeah - let me be the first person in the history of the internet to retract my posting about 25th or 50th.

i looked through some of his stats yesterday & he's definitely in top 25, perhaps top 15. 3 cy youngs certainly help his case, among other things.

i remember him being damn good in montreal, but didn't remember him being *that* good.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 1:04 pm
 
Baseball players who celebrate while wearing ski-goggles are gay.

I get it. Alcohol stings your eyes. But you look like that dude from Backstreet Boys. Be a man.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 1:07 pm | Edited by: Admin
 
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
say it to my face
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 1:10 pm
 
your opinion on everything, from music to sports to politics is ill-informed at best.


please show please
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 1:22 pm | Edited by: michael baker
 
Pedro has over 3,100 strikeouts, 2.91 ERA and 214 wins


You keep saying those as if they speak for themselves

Consider Johnson who pitched 12 years in AL

4789 K’s and 295 wins; he’s older, but who in their right mind thinks pedro has 40 wins left in his arm?


Johnson is decent 12/10 in playoffs too; pedro in 11 starts has 6 wins.

The key stat?

They are both about a run and a half higher in their careers above league average ERA. Amazing.

I’m not saying pedro is a chump; I’m saying he’s not a top ten pitcher. Top 15 probably. And he’s clemons’ and johnson’s equal.


and johnson should be capitalized. except when you are talking about Chicago Kunt's johnson. then, it should be magnified.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 3:13 pm
 
Bah. Randy Johnson is probably the most overrated pitcher in baseball history besides Clemens and Maddux. If you lay off his high riser he's easy as hell to beat. The Mets beat him practically every time they faced him over the years.
And I don't keep citing Pedro's stats over and over, Sweatpants, just once. Why can't you get along with anybody other than Mullet? You obviously didn't spend any of all that money of yours on charm school. You should tone down the rhetoric because A)you're a father and it sets a bad example and B)there are kids reading.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 3:25 pm
 
blah blah blah
34
4587
342
5245
53456
635
374
5
34
3
6
8764
4
3
2
6
3

6
3
5
7
35
7
46
8
579
7
5
67
4
57
68
4
3
2
54
6
all last year
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 3:36 pm
 
Oh and Sandy Koufax is listed at 6-2, 210. Much bigger than Pedro.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 5:57 pm | Edited by: michael baker
 
)you're a father and it sets a bad example and B)there are kids reading.


uh? you are a moralist?

like making pedophile jokes about my son?
like the time you said I knew where you live?

what kids are here?

are you referring to child-like intelligences? then you and chicago Kunt shd stop reading.


and having 5000 K's and an era lower by a run and a half over an entire career is overrated?

and the mets did not beat almost every time (6/6 is half the time midget)

and they did not face him as a mariner, his true height of achievement.

you should say something true once in a while. there are humans reading this.

and if you quote forbes on pedro's 8th place finish, don't forget how they consider clemons and walter johnson as a virtual toss up as best pitcher of all time.

what a fucking idiot. seriously.

pedro has fewer wins than mussina. that's a solid argument against him.

i had no idea sandy koufax weighed 210 playing pounds.

i met him ten years ago. he wasn't even close!
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 6:06 pm
 
what kids are here?



uh oh, he's getting his hopes up.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 6:09 pm
 
that's the second pedophile joke you mde cocksucker.

i am a father and a teacher.


stop it. now.


the first one was erased. i'll erase you this time.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 6:43 pm
 
and they did not face him as a mariner, his true height of achievement.

heehee
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 6:47 pm
 
bad touch baker's gettin' angry!
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 6:47 pm
 
HEY- CHILL OUT ON THE PEDOPHILE JOKES. FOR REAL.

Insult everyone all you want, leave kids/parents/pedophilia out of it.

Over who's a better pitcher? i know it's important, but...
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 7:00 pm
 
nice to see america's children are in good hands (no pun intended). the "father and teacher" was the one to bring family into this.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 7:29 pm
 
only pedrophile jokes from now on.
Posted: Oct 7, 2008 7:43 pm
 
ha.
Posted: Oct 8, 2008 12:26 am
 
Pedro Martinez and a kid go for a walk in the woods....
Posted: Oct 8, 2008 12:27 am
 
MYSTIC RECORSD
Posted: May 7, 2009 11:03 am
 
Posted: May 7, 2009 11:30 am
 
OMG.
take down those "Mannywood" signs in Chavez Ravine
Posted: May 7, 2009 11:46 am
 
I'm sure his doctor didn't realize he was a professional baseball player, and thus didn't bother checking mlb's banned substances list.
Posted: May 7, 2009 1:48 pm
 
Wait! Now he says it was for a "personal medical matter".

Hair growth tonic?
or other growth tonic?
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