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Goner Message Board / ???? / BBC foretells "surprise" collapse of 47 story building! Attn:Everyone.
Posted: Feb 27, 2007 11:00 pm
 
More wacky 9/11 related news.

If you don't wanna watch the whole thing, skip to a 14-15 minute mark, and watch this woman report on a collapsed building that's standing right behind her.

More fun links!

BBC's ridiculous response!
Obama rally!
Posted: Oct 1, 2007 11:17 pm
 
What the hell is wrong with everybody? There is more than enough information available to make any reasonable person overcome their denial. At the very least your President allowed 9/11 to happen. You've got so much shit to say about the aesthetics of Britney Spear's pussy, your favorite song in a random category, guacamole and my husband's girlfriend grabbing my tit but not one thing to say about this? We are all fucked!
Posted: Oct 1, 2007 11:23 pm
 
whoah.
Posted: Oct 1, 2007 11:49 pm
 
the firemen knew at 1230-1 pm that the building was in danger of collapsing.
there is a video showing the extensive damage that building took in the prior collapses. and in it you can hear the firefighters call for the evacuation of the building because they felt it was unsafe and could collapse.
i'm sure our government had a part to play, but this business of the bbc reporting to early can be more logically explained by the reporter getting info from the firemen that it was their assesment the building would collapse soon.
the conspiracy sites tend to show select pictures of two sides of wtc7 and lead people to belive that the damage was far less than it actually was. i was convinced of the wtc7 conspiracy until i saw this video.
URL
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 12:03 am
 
one more of a fireman predicting collapse
URL

also.
why would conspirators script the media for something like this?
think about it.
why not just blow it up and let them report it realtime?
that way noone fucks it up by reporting it early.
it doesn't make sense to do that in my view
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 12:22 am
 
What about that hole would cause the building to kink in the middle, with the simultaneous sequential failure of thousands of steel sections to create a free fall collapse from the bottom up?

Wouldn't damage like that be affected from the top down, weight above crushing below... like the towers?

It any event, 9/11 is so much bigger and criminal than any one point such as building 7, or what happened at the Pentagon, etc. The evidence for complicity and foreknowledge beforehand is so overwhelming that you simply have to conclude it was planned with our administrations cooperation. A majority of victims families are continuing to demand a new investigation due to the last one being so flawed (at least some people keep paying attention), while wars of aggression are continually being launched in reaction to this terrorism. It scares me to no end as well funnysmartname, the shit is hitting the fan in the New American Century.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 12:26 am
 
No predictions here. Rudy Guiliani says he was told the towers were coming down. Little curious... don't ya think?
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 12:47 am
 
I'M TOTALLY GOING TO 7/11!!!
I'M GONNA BUY ME A SLURPEE!!!



Oh. oh, I see.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 1:07 am
 
Bet it tastes like freedom.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 1:38 am
 
the conspiracy sites all have something to sell and if any of their points are valid they are not credible because of all the debunked lies they continue to parrot.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 2:10 am
 
People don't want to know what is going on. Denial is easier. Comfortably dumb. I think the comfort level will have to drop significantly before people are willing to let go of their willful ignorance.

Brad your statements are all so vague and if any of your points are valid they are not credible because of all the overgeneralizations and baseless ridicule you continue to parrot.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 5:41 am
 
Ok, I'll jump in here. Not only did the government perform incredibly complex precision demolition, they release press releases as the demolitions are slated to occur? Oops, WTC7 didn't collapse in time, but we already told the BBC it was going to collapse so they'd report it. I mean how else would they find out?

from the BBC's ridiculous response: We no longer have the original tapes of our 9/11 coverage (for reasons of cock-up, not conspiracy).

which is really stupid but I like the idea of the BBC saying Cock-up.

from the Obama rally: Members of the University of Texas student group The Project for a New American Citizen

First of all Alex Jones.... the guy is a lunatic. A loudmouth who never got enough attention. Fuck him.

Project for a New American Citizen runs from a conspiracy lunatic bookstore across the street from campus, probably the most expensive area in which to run a business. Six - count-em, six - plasma TVs. Sections for every conspiracy that has ever happened from JFK to the Branch Davidians to the civil rights movement(!) This can best be described as a cynical venture capitalizing on people's desire to be "smarter" than everyone else.

Occam's Razor. There are people everywhere who are enraged by U.S. foreign policy. Some fuckheads like killing lots of people. Some do both. Often during exceptional circumstances people contradict each other and themselves. Put it all together and it looks a lot less comfortably dumb than evil govt. vs. puppies.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 5:44 am | Edited by: Jack Stands
 
evil govt. vs. puppies


That was a great album, too.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 6:43 am
 
evil govt. vs. puppies


That was a great album, too.



'Groundmole Stations In Tandem Sunset' was better though
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 7:06 am
 
if there really were bombs planted in the buildings they would have went off the second the planes hit
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 7:43 am
 
I've watched all the 911 conspiracy stuff and have only found two things that interest me.

This guy...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7807592959569136609&q=fake+911 +witness&total=83&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
...is obviously bullshit. But I chalk that up to Fox News being sleaze and planting a "witness" in order to get some kind of unpanicked testimony.

And then this (the witnesses in the video, not the conspiracy conclusion reached by the filmmaker)...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5477955350625095031&q=pentagon +witness&total=140&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9
Which I chalk up to the inept 911 commission investigation.

So, while I do believe that there's been a post-911 conspiracy by the administration to milk "terrorism" for all it's worth in order to achieve basically what the reich-wing laid out in PNAC (not to mention pad their bank accounts...heavily), I don't think they pulled off the attack themselves.

Having said that....I think most people don't even want to consider the idea of it having been an inside job because they simply don't believe that tyranny on any scale could happen here. But if any administration in US history were likely to turn tyrannical, this is the one.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 7:48 am
 
milk

While I agree that the Dutchman's pick for best S.O.D. song is a good one, I'm partial to "Kill Yourself", which, there's a certain other dutch man I'd like to send that out to.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 3:47 pm
 
Gargamel?!?
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 5:55 pm
 
So, while I do believe that there's been a post-911 conspiracy by the administration to milk "terrorism" for all it's worth in order to achieve basically what the reich-wing laid out in PNAC (not to mention pad their bank accounts...heavily), I don't think they pulled off the attack themselves.

Occam's Razor

Milking terrorism, is terrorism. These attacks could not have succeeded in the ways described by the 9/11 Commission Report, and occam's razor says the simplest explanation for that would be that it's a cover-up. What it's covering up remains unknown, but I suspect the complete and utter omission of WTC7 is just one of many things.

Another likely aspect pointing to cover up is this statement, found on page 172...

"To date, the US govt has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance." WHAT?! Little practical significance?! The funding of 3000 murders? Maybe they should check with Mahmoud_Ahmad to see where Mohammed Atta received $100,000 the week of the attacks?

They didn't investigate, or just ignored, SO MANY things that there must be a reason. That's what these 15,000 people are trying to find out. And there's millions more questioning the roots of the war on terror, what are they selling?
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 6:18 pm | Edited by: The Muswell Hillbilly
 
What about all the suspicions of insider trading that took place?

Recent Swiss study

"the probability that there were offences of initiates (insider trading) is strong for American Airlines, United Airlines, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Citigroup and JP Morgan."

German central bank president

"highly suspicious sales of shares in airlines and insurance companies, along with major trades in gold and oil markets, before Sept. 11 that suggest they were conducted with advance knowledge of the attacks. Welteke said his researchers came across what he considers almost irrefutable proof of insider trading"

9/11 is so much bigger than buildings falling, planes crashing, Osama, Bush, Cheney, etc. It needs to be re-investigated.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 6:36 pm
 
Dear Muswell,
We, the average American citizen, cannot "wrap our heads around" the possibility that 911 was a "inside job".
We are more concerned with the fact that Brittney Spears just lost her kids to Kevin Federline...can you believe they took her kids from her?
Did you hear that Lindsey Lohan is in rehab? Well...how can we concern ourselves with this 911 business?
C'mon man....THINK!
Oh...and one more thing....can you take Beckham and his skinny ass wife back?
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 8:14 pm
 
3/11. We'll never forget.

Freedom will soar like a majestic eagle!
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 9:03 pm | Edited by: uncledaddy
 
while i can agree that the american government is up to its ass with criminals and that conspiracy can and is a major concern that citizens should be aware of i have come to my own conclusion that the "demolition theory" is bull shit.
i know that looking at the buildings fall 6,000 times tends to make you ask questions and the fucked up 911 commision report fuels the fire. along with many other variables. but looking at the design of the buildings and some FACTUAL information about the ACTUAL damage to the buildings make a global collapse due to damage by fire weakening the steel is actually more plausible. the buildings were designed to withstand a lot, but they were not designed to collapse slowly or non-symetrically. when they did reach the point
of no return, they pulled themselves down. their was no other way they could have fallen. gravity would not allow it, and the collapses were not as neat and clean as some people would lead you to believe. wtc 7 actually started to collapse much sooner than the conspiracy sites tell you, the bulk of it fell at the end of the collapse. and although at first it appears symmetrical, its not so. that building fell towards the damaged side and the intact side was pulled down by the weight of the dammged part of the structure.
let me ask you this, what was it supposed to look like? these buildings were mostly steel, only concrete floor pans. a concrete building could have stayed upright for the most part, as did wtc 3-6. the "tube within a tube" designs all failed.
look at the federal building in oklahoma city. it was a concrete design, it had a huge chunk taken out and it stood. its because of the concrete design. steel buildings with inter-connected struts and floor pans and columns fall down like that because they have no choice, there is nothing that can break off, they pull themselves down.
as for the media being scripted, well thats just dumb. why in the hell would
you involve needlessly people who would love the scoop of the century, a story of conspiracy. a scripted event involving so many people. what is the purpose? why not just leave them in the dark to report the events as they are occuring? wouldn't that be more realistic, safer? not buying that one. if only for the fact that there is not any need what so ever to tell the media this is going to happen. they would find out when everyone else did. as it happened. now, can you give a reasonable explanation of what the purpose would be for scripting the media? not just that they fucked up some stories, but the actual NEED to script them. i cant think of any.
yeah, bush milked it, probably knew it was going to happen, probably set certain processes in motion to facilitate it, probably through the ISI and the CIA. Atta did recieve 100.000 $ from a pakastani general associated with the ISI. the CIA DID set up the ISI. i'm not arguing any other point than the FACT that there were no bombs in those buildings. there is no proof and there never will be because it didn't happen. and the more focus that gets put on a false claim the more the real crimes flourish and become bulletproof. so stop trying to convince people they are sheep for not paying attention to a BS demolition story and start talking about the real conspiracy. the fact that it was a setup, and that it facilitated everything that the PNAC had plans to do.

and "fuck the middle east" was the best SOD song.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 9:44 pm
 
Ok, so why would George Bush lie about seeing the first plane hit? And why did Guiliani lie about forknowledge of a collapse? If you haven't watched 9/11 Press for Truth please do. It's free on Google video. Why did families face so much resistance to an honest investigation? Why would Kissinger be the administrations first pick to lead up the investigation? That is just nuts. Why were the testimonies mentioning initial explosions omitted from the investigation? I've met witnesses who say they heard explosions. One of which who is considered a national hero and saved numerous people's lives.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 9:49 pm
 
bush didnt lie, he was confused. he's confused alot in case you didnt notice.
there is NO possibility the buildings were wired for explosives or the planes hitting would have IMMEDIATELY triggered them. thats why there isnt a single explosives or demolition expert that supports that ridiculous idea.

you all know how much i relish a good argument with 9/11 conspiracy nerds so rest assured i will be back later to discuss this more.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 9:59 pm
 
as I said. i argue only the demolition theory. bush appears stupid, but he did become president. gotta be SOMETHING going on up there.
cheney lied about where he was as well. norman minnetas ommited 911 testimony is in direct conflict with cheney story.
the reports of explosions are reasonable, the friggin buildings were hit by two airliners doing close to 500 mph. you would expect MANY secondary explosions. elevator cables snapping, elavators falling and what not. generators exploding, any number of things. an explosion does not mean a bomb.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 10:02 pm
 
also, the fact that some people were told not to fly should be under extreme scrutiny by investigators. why it hasn't been i dont know. if i were to investigate, interviewing people that claimed to have been told not to fly in advance of these events would be a top priority.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 10:11 pm
 
George Bush

You people have the worst fucking taste in music.
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 10:15 pm
 
well, all i know is that the fact that the buildings came down in the the manor that they did is enough to convince me that whatever we were told is complete bullshit. not too mention the other things.....and any person who holds the position that the "investigation" and what we were told is bullshit, all they really want is a RE-INVESTIGATION. um, and unbiased.


and if anyone cares, read David Ray Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor" - it does a really good job of explaining things in a clear manor (for idiots like me), but what I liked about it the most, is that he defines levels of doubt, like are you a crazy conspiracy nut like Muswell (and Muswell is from Wisconsin) or just someone who has some doubt....and even in the preface, he says that at first, there was no way in hell he thought this ever could be an inside job. It's a really good book. It's also really frustrating.

Also, this is all coming from someone who has done an ounce of reading on all this (compared to the gallons upon gallons others have done).

and, also, i think the real question is, is it possible to believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories and care about the aesthetics of Britany Spears pussy?
Posted: Oct 2, 2007 10:23 pm
 
jorgι boosh

you have bad taste in panties
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 12:28 am
 
You're a panties!
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 12:31 am
 
is it possible to believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories and care about the aesthetics of Britany Spears pussy?

i think those two items were already mutually exclusive.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 12:33 am
 
luke, have you heard the dethalbum yet?
its brutal!
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:13 am
 
FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:18 am
 
the problem with that is that most reasonable demolition theory believers dont deny that a plane hit the wtc.
the problem they have is with the manner of the collapse. i have seen this point, but after a while i wondered what it should look like if not like it did.
the answer is that it could not have collapsed any differently.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:19 am
 
i am high too
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:19 am
 
on life
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:22 am
 
FACT: Blast!

Did you know? Pound for pound, grasshoppers are more nutritious than steak. Or lesbians.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:24 am
 
steak. Or lesbians.

is it a choice?
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:25 am
 
cause i choose steak.


or mabey lesbians
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:26 am
 
The collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers initiated where the planes hit the buildings. Controlled demolitions always are initiated at the bottom of a building, to take advantage of maximum gravity forces.

If the World Trade Center collapsed due to controlled demolition, as the theory goes, the explosive charges would have had to survive the crash of airplanes into the buildings. (at ~500 miles per hour)

The demolition theory has managed to endure what would seem to be enormous obstacles to its practicality. Controlled demolition is done from the bottom of buildings, not the top, to take advantage of gravity, and there is little dispute that the collapse of the two towers began high in the towers, in the areas where the airplanes struck.

Moreover, a demolition project would have required the tower walls to be opened on dozens of floors, followed by the insertion of thousands of pounds of explosives, fuses and ignition mechanisms, all sneaked past the security stations, inside hundreds of feet of walls on all four faces of both buildings. Then the walls presumably would have been closed up.

All this would have had to take place without attracting the notice of any of the thousands of tenants and workers in either building; no witness has ever reported such activity. Then on the morning of Sept. 11, the demolition explosives would have had to withstand the impacts of the airplanes, since the collapse did not begin for 57 minutes in one tower, and 102 minutes in the other.

It takes months to prepare a building for implosion. It's not something that can be done over a weekend.

* The demolition of the Washington DC Convention Center in 2004 involved preparations that went on for months. Massive crews were at work, placing explosives around ~500 columns and doing other preparation work. The crews and activity were highly noticeable to people in the area.[7]

* The demolition of Kodak Park's Buildings 9 and 23 in Rochester, New York took months of preparation. Setting up the explosives involved cutting torches to slice through metal pipes and heavy equipment to drill holes in the forest of thick concrete support beams, and placing sticks of dynamite into the holes. When they go off, the explosions cause the buildings to implode, or collapse inward.[8]

Absolutely zero chance that an effort like that could go unnoticed in large office buildings full of workers. Given the nature of stock and bond trading in a global marketplace, with places like Japan, Hong Kong, and London, people were there at all hours. Such preparations would definitely be noticed.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:27 am
 
Japan, Hong Kong, and London all drive the wrong fucking way. I think.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:27 am
 
re willie brown:
The State Department issued a worldwide advisory on September 7, 2001, warning that Americans "may be the target of a terrorist threat." The raised concerns for Americans abroad, but made no mention of any possible attack on U.S. soil.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:28 am
 
maximum gravity forces

That should be an album.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:28 am
 
willie brown me a steak? I sure hope so!
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:30 am
 
you are right, the fact that the set-up of this is so complex makes that occams razor crap wrong. the simplest answer is that the buildings collapsed because planes ran into them at 500 mph.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:32 am
 
willie brown me a steak? I sure hope so!

HA!

that should be track 3 on maximum gravity forces
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:32 am
 
New Paper ~ Professor of Civil, Structural and Environmental Engineering at Cambridge University passes yet another peer reviewed paper by a RESPECTED engineering Journal saying the towers collapsed the way they did without the need of explosives.
http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:33 am
 
thats a good site.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:36 am
 
steak. Or lesbians.

is it a choice?


Only if you're talking about broken glass dildo pounding ones.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:37 am
 
With the lack of even the smallest amount of hard evidence supporting their stories, conspiracy theorists have become more desperate to find anything which could be twisted to support them. Case in point: The WTC 7 was seen in the background of a BBC report while the reporter said the building had already collapsed. The story is that the reporters were given a "script" to say and these reporters stupidly read the lines before the building fell. Plain old common sense can dispatch this conspiracy story.

Why in the WORLD would they need to give the reporters a head's up??? Why wouldn't they just blow the building up and let them report the collapse as they would have normally?

What most likely, logically happened: While investigating and updating information on the collapse of the towers, someone at the BBC was given a report/press release that building 7 was going to collapse. [Edit: we now know they were monitoring the news from different outlets and that's where they learned of building 7.] According to the fire department, by 2:00PM they knew the building would soon collapse. Reporters KNEW this well before the collapse because there are videos of reporters talking about it before it happened. So we KNOW reporters were given information on WTC 7's imminent demise. We can conclude from this evidence that the fire department relayed information to reporters that the building was going to collapse. By the time the report reached the reporter at the BBC, it may have simply been miscommunicated from "About to collapse" to "Has collapsed". She even starts out by saying "Details are very, very sketchy". That alone should put this to rest. She didn't say 'Sketchy'. She didn't say 'very sketchy'. She said "very, very sketchy".

It wouldn't be the first time reporters got something so completely wrong. They said it was a small plane at first, remember? They said Kerry choose Gephardt for VP, remember? They told the family members of trapped mine workers that their 13 loved ones were alive, all but one, when it was the other way around. Those are just a few glaring examples. I could go on... Reporters rush to be the first one with the news and often do a poor job of getting the facts straight. History is littered with examples of this. Even your average knuckle dragging, cave dwelling Neanderthal knows this.

Listen to Aaron Brown from CNN say the building collapsed or is collapsing with the building in the background.

I have had on this site since I started it (just under the 12 things we know for sure on this very page) the link to a video with someone from MSNBC saying "What we've been fearing all afternoon has finally happened." As the building collapses. That makes CNN, BBC and MSNBC who knew the building was going to collapse.

How many people knew that building was Building 7 before that day? It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect every reporter to know the names of all the buildings in the World Trade Center. For all they may have known, building 7 could have been one of the smaller buildings which were also on fire.

The downright absurd conspiracy story: The government told many reporters to report something they would have reported anyway after the building collapsed.

A little critical thinking is all that's needed to debunk this nonsense. Why in the world would they make an already unbelievably massive conspiracy into one involving reporters who would LOVE a scoop like that? "Sept. 9, 2001 - EXCLUSIVE BREAKING NEWS! Government about to murder thousands for oil! We have the script!" Can you imagine the job offerings after a scoop like that? Can you say Pulitzer prize? What a hero!

And here is the kicker... Did they really need even MORE people involved? What was the reason they absolutely needed to tell the reporters this? Why haven't any of the other reporters talked? Are most reporters part of a mass murder scheme? How much can conspiracy theorists swallow?

Do the conspiracy theorist leaders have one shred of REAL evidence of explosives or anything else which could take down the buildings? They have nothing. They're left to scour the internet for the slightest mistake made by anyone on that horrific, chaotic day. They're left destroying peoples' lives by suggesting innocent people are involved in mass murders.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:39 am
 
Only if you're talking about broken glass dildo pounding ones.


i choose the one with a dildo made of steak, filled with sauted onions and mushrooms.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:42 am
 
debunking 911 is a great site. lots of reasonable arguments, with the reality of corruption in the gvm't left intact
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:42 am
 
In every photo and every video, you can see columns far outpacing the collapse of the building. Not only are the columns falling faster than the building but they are also falling faster than the debris cloud which is ALSO falling faster than the building. This proves the buildings fell well below free fall speed. That is, unless the beams had a rocket pointed to the ground.

Just look at any video you like and watch the perimeter columns.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:42 am
 
uncledaddy,
Have you heard anymore from Lee?
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:43 am
 
"I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever."

etc etc etc

most of the 9/11 conspiracy "questions" have been answered again and again. as soon as any "documentary" uses one of these debunked myths and states it as fact, their entire credibility is shot because obviously they cant do even the most base research, or more likely are unwilling to because the truth doesnt help them sell dvd's.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:52 am
 
etc etc etc

They were worse than The The.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:54 am
 
most of the 9/11 conspiracy "questions" have been answered again and again.

i agree except i would attribute your statement to the demolition aspect of the conspiracy. a new investigation should focus on paper trails, money exchange, etc. there are definitly questions about the pre and post periods which i think should be answered. i think that the videos coming from the pentagon cameras should be released, to show a plane, if only to quell the movement that a plane did not hi tit.




jack hadn't talked to lee lately, but i will.
ready to rock!!
you still fuck animals?
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:54 am
 
There was very high trading in "put options" on American Airline and United Airlines, immediately before 9/11.

Although there were high volumes traded on these days, for instance, they weren't as exceptionally high as some sites like to claim.

The American puts followed the trading day after the company had released a major profit warning, when you'd expect investors to believe the shares had further to fall, and the United Airlines trade volumes were lower than the spikes that occurred in March and April. If a United Airlines spike of 8,072 in March didn't suggest an imminent attack, then why should 3,150 puts in September have any more effect?

The price had fallen over 20% in under two months. Might investors have thought it could fall further, and so be tempted to buy puts?

What's more, immediately before 9/11 American Airlines released a string of bad news:

12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR NOTES 'POOR' ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, 'FALLING' DEMAND

12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS DEFERRING JET PURCHASES BEYOND FIRM ORDERS

12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR'S AMERICAN RETIRING 5 MORE 727 AIRCRAFT EARLY

12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR: AMERICAN TO RETIRE ENTIRE 727 FLEET BY END OF 2002

12:46pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SEES Q3 LOSS 'CONSIDERABLY LARGER' THAN Q2'S

12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR ANTICIPATES 'SIGNIFICANT' LOSS IN Q4

12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS CUTTING 2001-02 CAPEX BY NEARLY $1.2 BLN

12:50pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMERICAN AIR FEELS SQUEEZE OF FUEL PRICES, LABOR COSTS

1:07pm 09/07/01 AMR warns of wider losses - William Spain

2:44pm 09/07/01 Analyst: Airline Stocks Face At Least Another Bad Quarter

2:51pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR DOWN 3.4% AT $30.08 FOLLOWING Q3 WARNING

In other words, the picture all round was bad. That was obvious, a falling share price could be predicted.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:55 am
 
hit it
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:57 am
 
you still fuck animals?

Just teddy bears.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 1:58 am
 
wanna get the 900 from the studio and see if the fuses ibought work in it.
you free anytime this week for that?
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:02 am
 
i think that the videos coming from the pentagon cameras should be released, to show a plane, if only to quell the movement that a plane did not hi tit.
they found the black box, numerous pieces of plane and human remains of passengers and crew.

Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

"Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane.

''There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,'' she said. ''It smelled like it was still burning.''"

When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

Burkhammer spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane...

Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane's cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They'd been told the plane's "black boxes" would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open.

"On October 12, we started taking the stone off the building. We took down approximately 2,400 pieces of stone, a lot of which had melted aluminum from the plane embedded in it.

And then we have this particularly detailed account from John Judge, referring to a flight attendant friend of his who had flown the Flight 77 route before.

"She saw parts of the fuselage of an American Airlines plane, a Boeing 757 plane... She recognized the polished aluminum outer shell, an unpainted silver color that is unique to American Airline planes, and the red and blue trim that is used to decorate the fuselage. She saw parts of the inside of the plane, which she easily identified since she flew and worked in them for years. Upholstery, drapes and carpeting she could identify by both color and design. The soft carpeting and padding of the inner walls had a cloud design and color she recognized from American Airline planes, though it has since been replaced. The blue coloring of drapes and carpet were also specific to the 757 or 767 larger planes, and were not used on the smaller planes. Seating upholstery also matched the AA 757 planes, including the blue color, tan squares and hints of white...
One area of fuselage had remaining window sections and the shape of the windows, curved squares not ovals, was also distinct to the 757's she had flown. She also saw parts with the A/A logo, including parts of the tail of the plane. Smaller A/A logos and "American" logos are also on the planes and she saw parts of those...
She spent approximately 15 minutes in the crash area looking at parts of the wreckage, all of which she recognized as coming from a Boeing 757 American Airline plane, the same planes she flew regularly. She did not see any rubber, only metal pieces of fuselage, engine parts and sections of the inside of the plane".
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:04 am
 
Truth: Over a hundred documented witnesses, and many more unrecorded, saw in broad daylight a large commercial jetliner crash into the Pentagon. Many even specifically identified the airline.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:09 am
 
see, i think a plane hit it. but if their are tapes, let the counrty see. I dont know if they understand that when they put out a video, 5 frames, that doesn't show a plane it fuels a needless conspiracy that makes a lot of people focus on something the government could clear up. not just the private tapes, i know they have released the gas station-hotel videos, but there are many cameras on the pentagon that could have captured some footage.
just sayin'
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:20 am
 
its a good way to weed out the morons. anyone who needs pictures when theres hundereds of eyewitnesses both to the crash and aftermath is an idiot.

the pentagon doesnt want you to know where its cameras are and they dont have any obligation to release any hypothetical footage which may or may not exist at all.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:22 am
 
you free anytime this week for that?


Why yes. Yes, I do want to do that. As soon as possible.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:24 am
 
also, let me point out-the government does not want to clear up the conspiracy theories. they live on disinformation and fear, and i think they are actually helped by people thinking they are responsible or had foreknowledge of the attacks because it makes them look omnipotent and powerful, when the reality is that they were dangerously unprepared and inept.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:29 am
 
even when pictures are requested and you get crap? and those cameras are in plain view for anyone near the pentagon to see. their just security cameras. they didn't mind showing the location of one of them.
once again. there is no question that a plane hit it to me. thier actions are just inept and irresponsible. they know what people want to see when a picture or video is requested, and they released the opposite. and you know thats not all they have. release the shit and get it the fuck over with. otherwise smart-ass motherfuckers will be trying to convince each other about some dumb shit for WAY too long. mabey people who need a picture for proof are morons, but that doesnt absolve the government from its responsibility to make sure that all of america understands what happened there.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:30 am
 
also, let me point out-the government does not want to clear up the conspiracy theories

yeah, you're right about that.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:35 am
 
their supporters wont believe the conspiracy theories anyways and having their enemies spouting loudly about such obvious bullshit is a classic distraction and fear creating tactic. it marginalizes the whole real problem which is the erosion of the bill of rights and the unrelated illegal war we are engaged in.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:44 am | Edited by: uncledaddy
 
its too bad the situation has dissolved to the point where these divisions are made for profit. its a testament to the criminal infiltration of americas democracy. illegal immigration is a part of this problem too. all the fear. the end will be war.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:49 am
 

Why yes. Yes, I do want to do that. As soon as possible.


hows thursday sound?
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:52 am
 
i also like how the first post has a link that says, " the bbc's ridiculous response!"
as if saying "we didn't do that, its not like that" is a ridiculous response to the question.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 3:48 am
 
they say a picture is worth a thousand words. there might not be a picture of the plane actually hitting the building but the aftermath is pretty well documented. anyone who thinks a plane didnt hit the pentagon has been brainwashed by conspiracy theories, has their head up their ass, or both.
http://internetdetectives.biz/images/case1/flight77remains1.jpg
Pentagon searchers encounter grisly scenes

By Andrea Stone, USA TODAY

By Susan Walsh, AP

WASHINGTON — On Tuesday, Army Staff Sgt. Mark Williams witnessed a combat zone for the first time in his 11 years of service. He never imagined it would be inside the Pentagon. One of the first recovery personnel to enter the crippled headquarters building after a hijacked Boeing 757 smashed into it, the urban search-and-rescue specialist found a gruesome sight. "If anyone has ever burned a pot roast, they'll know what the victims looked like," Williams, 30, said Thursday.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 4:08 am
 
757 parts everywhere, DNA from all aboard AA77 identified in the wreckage, personal effects of many on board identified, the black boxes from AA77 in the wreckage, AA logo clearly visible on some pieces, etc.

the only 757 missing in the area. It was visually identified by a pilot of a C130 that it passed on it's way to the Pentagon.

The livery recovered from the site clearly indicates it was an American Airlines aircraft, and that the livery came from the typical markings of AA 757 aircraft

and since then both the hotel and gas station tapes have been released (all it took was someone asking for them) is anyone at rest yet?

as you would expect the cameras were pointed at their own properties and not the pentagon, i think you can see a blur in 1 or 2 frames of the hotel vid that might be the plane, and you see a flash from the explosion in the gas station vid

they are both on youtube if you want to check them out, look for doubletree hotel video and citgo station video
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 4:09 am
 
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 4:18 am | Edited by: bradx
 
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/fst/image001.jpg
I was a true believer of all this controlled demolition nonsense for a time. I never cared about the physics or the claims of pseudo-"experts." What always did it for me was the fact that there was never a decent response to any of these questions by the government. Even the hit pieces you'd see on 9/11 were always personal attacks. The mainstream never contested the actual "facts" movies like Loose Change presented.

Or so it seemed. After watching Screw Loose Change, I delved into the world of 9/11 Truth debunking. Among my favorites are the Screw Loose Change Blog and 9/11 Myths Finally, someone has answered all these pertinent questions with something that was a bit foreign to me... facts agreed upon by the experts.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 6:03 am | Edited by: the rape ape
 
YEAH!
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 6:04 am
 
big surprise the no plane hit the pentagon myth was started by rumsfeld himself.

Rumsfeld gave an interview to Parade magazine on October 12 where he said a "missile" hit the Pentagon. That "missile" quote was then used by many no plane advocates as part of the campaign to draw attention to this claim.

On September 4, 2004, two months before the pseudo Presidential election, Parade magazine claimed that this quote was a mis-statement and the sole source for the no plane hoaxes, thus dismissing 9/11 "truth" to an audience of millions of voters.

The video is probably being withheld in a form of "reverse psychology" to get the skeptics to think the Pentagon is hiding something when they are not, which is needed to keep this hoax alive.

Hundreds (if not more) people saw the plane, and hundreds more participated in the cleanup and saw plane debris and bodies of the passengers.

It is amazing how much time can be spent refuting this endless flood of nonsense, which is probably the purpose for this propaganda.

Perhaps one day there will be "no building" theories offered as part of this information warfare attack.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 8:40 pm | Edited by: The Muswell Hillbilly
 
Well, I sure missed a lot over night... I'll make one long winded post then I'm done with this. I really couldn't care less anymore if people believe what I believe. It's not my job to do anyone's research for them, and if people can't see how the Commissions Report is grossly flawed (or if they just don't care), then fuck 'em.

As for brad and his uncledaddy... I'll take the word of this group, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, over yours. Sorry guys. I'm sure they're aware of debunking911.com and the NIST report, yet they still found their explanations insufficient. I noticed there is a single DVD for sale in a shameful display of profiting off these consriracy theories, we'll have to ask Popular Mechanics what they think about people making money from this tragedy.

Controlled demolitions always are initiated at the bottom of a building, to take advantage of maximum gravity forces.

Here is a demolition starting from the top down. It's called CONTROLLED demolition, it can begin wherever the hell computer sequencing says to.

What would cause this massive steel beam to be CUT smoothly at an angle with what appears to be melted metal formed on top? It's cut in a manner VERY consistent with CD.

Hundreds of qualified first responders reported sequential explosions (not shit falling and making noise), why is all their testimony irrelevant?

Bombs couldn't survive the impact you say? Perhaps that's what this is showing. Looks similar to other clips of thermite reactions to me. The FBI and FDNY both thought bombs were in the sub basements of the buildings that day though, wonder what changed...

The buildings, a money losing eye sore, also needed some $200 million dollars in repairs to remove asbestos, and it would have cost even more to remove them piece by piece (demolition is illegal). After the complete obliteration of the complex though, nearly $5 billion was awarded to its leaseholder, saving him a whole heck of a lot of trouble. If they merely allowed planes to fly into buildings (as uncledaddy seems to believe as well), the damage would have cost hundreds of millions to Silverstein to repair or demolish. He instead made out like a fuckin' bandit.

Don't care about the Pentagon really. It is curious though that the day before 9/11, Rumsfeld admits losing 2.3 TRILLION dollars in accounting, followed by a plane crashing into the exact area where those records were stored. An area recently reinforced before 9/11, when no other parts of the building have been remodeled before or since in a similar way...

But in the end... NONE OF THIS DEBATE MATTERS! The evidence that a group larger than Osamas rag-tag team helped organize, finance, and profit from 9/11 doesn't rely on controlled demolitions or what hit the Pentagon. IT NEEDS TO BE RE-INVESTIGATED! HOPEFULLY BEFORE THE NEXT FALSE FLAG!
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 8:45 pm
 
Perhaps that's what this is showing.

This should be that link...

Posted: Oct 3, 2007 10:07 pm | Edited by: uncledaddy
 
What would cause this massive steel beam to be CUT smoothly at an angle with what appears to be melted metal formed on top?
an acetyline torch cut it. thats what it looks like when you cut steel with an acetyline torch
URL
URL
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 10:10 pm
 
Here is a demolition starting from the top down.

that IS nuts.
hmmmmm....
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 11:22 pm
 
Only if you\'re talking about broken glass dildo pounding ones.

I am not exactly a lesbian, though I wish I were and I never used the dildo after it broke. I gave it to Marla. I never eat steak(unless that is some sort of euphemism).

Anyway:

Bush did lie. How can you say he didn\'t? His story was too elaborate to be called a mistake.

As far as the plane that hit the Pentagon, the engine was too small for that type of plane and only one engine was found. Shaped charges can also make an angled cut like that. William Rodriguez states that there were explosions in the basement, then he heard the impact of the plane hit a few minutes later.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007 11:23 pm
 
His story was too elaborate to be called a mistake.


i agree, because he repeated it to several audiences as well
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:02 am
 
Can you believe someone broke into Nicolas Cage's house while he was at home?!
Oh my God!
But, thankfully, Britney got her California driver's license!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:05 am
 
I am not exactly a lesbian
Bad Emo.

I never eat steak
Your band sucks.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:10 am
 
Oh my God!


hopefully CROM
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:53 am
 
an acetyline torch cut it. thats what it looks like when you cut steel with an acetyline torch

But why would the Trade Center have been cut with an acetyline torch on 911? A shaped charge of Thermite would in fact leave a relatively straight, molten cut like a torch.
Just sayin.


Hail, Crom!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:56 am
 
A shaped charge of Thermite would in fact leave a relatively straight, molten cut like a torch.


So would a light saber.


I totally fucking did it.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 12:58 am
 
So would a light saber.

Holy shit!
So it was the fucking Sith!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:52 am
 
BBC foretells "surprise" collapse of 47 story building! Attn:Everyone.
your an idiot.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 5:02 am
 
when you can become "smart" by getting info from conspiracy sites on the internet that's when I'd prefer to be "dumb"
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 7:49 am
 
You're just as retarded.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 7:52 am | Edited by: The Muswell Hillbilly
 
And shut the fuck up about "conspiracy sites", both of you. Victims families, first responders, engineers, professors, ex military/CIA professionals... it's not all Alex Jones' minions spouting off about this shit...
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 3:21 pm
 
your stupid.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 3:21 pm
 
stupider as fuck.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 3:23 pm
 
Victims families, first responders, engineers, professors, ex military/CIA professionals... it's not all Alex Jones' minions spouting off about this shit...
their stupid to.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 3:26 pm
 
Keep em comin Hillbilly!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 3:29 pm
 
shut it.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:17 pm
 
Posted: Oct 3, 2007, 2:40 pm
Well, I sure missed a lot over night... I'll make one long winded post then I'm done with this.
Posted: Oct 3, 2007, 5:08 pm
You can destroy things any which way you want blah blah blah
Posted: Oct 4, 2007, 1:49 am
You're just as retarded.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007, 1:52 am
And shut the fuck up about "conspiracy sites" blah blah blah

I'm not going to get wrapped up in this again, but I find it hilarious that even when you say you're going to stop, you just can't stop. You should ask a psychologist what that means.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:22 pm
 
But why would the Trade Center have been cut with an acetyline torch on 911?
that pic was taken a while after 911, when the clean up had begun already.

So would a light saber.

yes, i agree, it is plausible

dethklok did it
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:32 pm
 
I love how everyone is an expert. I remember when they taught us about structural engineering in third grade. Its obvious to a seven year old how a skyscraper would fall when hit by a jetliner full of fuel.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:34 pm
 
You'll LOVE this!:

Saddam Hussein Tried to Give up and Leave Iraq -
Bush White House Kept Facts Secret

What could have been saved? A trillion dollars, a million lives, the global reputation of the U.S. - but that wasn't the plan....

http://infowars.com/articles/iraq/saddam_offered_exile_but_neocons_unl eashed_carnage_anyway.htm
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:36 pm
 
what about the fact that their were no peanuts, refreshments, or in flight movies on either of the planes that crashed into the WTC. explain that away
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:43 pm | Edited by: Stephanie
 
Its obvious to a seven year old how a skyscraper would fall when hit by a jetliner full of fuel.


uh, burn a little longer than an hour before crumbling in its' own footprint?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:48 pm
 
seriously though, this thread started back in february and not one response until now when FSN was worried about britany's pussy or something...

jack did it.

brad replies to himself under different names

and muswell's crazy. whatever.

all anyone wants is a REINVESTIGATION.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:50 pm
 
peanuts, refreshments, or in flight movies on either of the planes

and they both served fish but were out of the chicken.
coincedence?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:53 pm
 
peanuts, refreshments, or in flight movies on either of the planes

and they both served fish but were out of the chicken.
coincedence?


c'mon now.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:54 pm
 
shirley, you can't be serious.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 4:57 pm
 
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 5:04 pm
 
mohamed atta picked the wrong day to stop sniffin glue too!
coincidence?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 6:04 pm
 
Why can't I walk down my street free of suggestions?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 7:02 pm
 
You're right John, guess I'm a little passionate about this stuff... it's pretty hard NOT to be. How often do the murders of 3000 people go unpunished? But don't let that bother you, our Uncle Sam knows who did it, and as soon as he stops filming his next release from a cave, we'll see Osama hanging in the gallows, Saddam style. Just give it another six years... that Afghanistan war will finally prove its worth.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 7:20 pm
 
You just made my point for me...

guess I'm a little passionate about this stuff...

It's not really about 9/11 at all. It's about Muswell's passion.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 7:38 pm | Edited by: The Muswell Hillbilly
 
What does that mean? That I'm concerned over what is being done to my country? That I'm concerned it could, and probably will, happen again as long as these criminals are still our "elected" leaders? That I want to know how and why it happened so as to prevent something like it from occuring again?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 9:31 pm
 
I commend you Mr. Hillbilly. Its not worth much, I'm sure. Passion vs. apathy-hmmm. It is about searching for truth and caring about the loss of life that day and in Iraq and Afghanistan. Any reasonable person who objectively looks at facts and listens to survivors and their families would question the official conspiracy theory. It takes a lot to battle the apathy and ridicule. These criminals don't have to defend themselves. They have enough idiots and bullies looking to puff their pathetic selves up by trying to ridicule others. Ridicule and obfuscation is all they've got.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 9:43 pm
 
Hillbilly Rules!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 9:49 pm
 
looks like i picked a bad day to quit smokin reefer
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 9:54 pm
 
Hillbilly Rules!

he does!
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 9:55 pm
 
What does that mean?

Ask a shrink.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:01 pm
 
Captain Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I've never been up in a plane before.
Captain Oveur: You ever seen a grown man naked?
Captain Oveur: Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:17 pm
 
I didn't write what follows, nor do I even agree with the author most of the time, but in this case it's right on. It nicely sums up my feelings regarding twoofers...

• Those engaged in uncovering the conspiracy tend not to be politically active, demonstrating no interest in the day-in, day-out, roll-up-your-sleeves, never-ending struggles as regards complex, often nearly unsolvable social, economic, and political issues.

• Conspiracy theorists practice very bad history, essentially gathering every bit of data that supports their already-arrived-at conclusion while disregarding any information that doesn't. For example, among the topics under discussion is the fact that a significant number of "put options" (which are essentially bets a stock will go down) on two airline companies were purchased right before September 11. Bad history is to say these are worth investigating closely because they look suspicious. Good history is looking at a two- or three-year history of such options to see if this activity was in any way an aberration.

• Folks really interested in the "truth" usually avidly listen to dissenters as a way of testing and re-examining premises. This is clearly not the case with the "truth" seekers.

• In this context, "truth" simply means agreeing with the opinions of the conspiracy-theory crowd. Anyone who doesn't buy in is accused of being so terrified by reality that he or she can't even consider the horrors our government is capable of committing. To research and understand 9/11, in their view, is to come to the same exact conclusions as the theorists.

Consequently, telling several generations of activist progressives that they refuse to imagine what our government is capable of doing is insulting. These are the people who marched for civil rights, who were beaten and killed in that struggle – the ones who stood up to the government on Vietnam and Iraq while uncovering and publishing the truth on this country's illegal and far-flung activities abroad, as well as the violation of citizens' constitutional rights at home. Regardless of the prevailing, predominant mass opinion, they've always stood up for what they believe.

• Theorists insist that the events of the world are more controlled and intentional than there is any chance that they are and, moreover, that history is marked by big, terrible events executed by evil conspirators. Rather than irrational, erratic, unpredictable, and ever-changing, history is, in their view, organized and under control – although it's the organization and control of evil, hateful visionaries.

This means there are good guys and bad guys, a point of view that allows for dehumanizing and demonizing other people. Almost every major atrocity committed in the last two centuries has had its roots in such demonizing. Theorists do not believe that history is created primarily by involved people championing policies they believe will benefit society – policies that sometimes, in spite of the best intentions, failed or even proved to be destructive. Instead, they believe in evil people intentionally doing evil things. In this view, President Bush isn't just a hopelessly incompetent, arrogant fraternity boy who has done more to damage his country than any president in memory. Instead, he is either a puppet of evil world masters or evil himself, knowingly doing terrible things in his quest for horrific results. To demonize others is to justify all actions against them – makes them not human but instead Jews or Palestinians; Hutu or Tutsi; Serbs, Croats, or Bosnians; pagans or Christians; Kurds, Shiites, or Sunnis. It becomes not just necessary but holy to kill them: If you do not then they will kill you.

• If there was a conspiracy, it hardly matters. More than 40 years after President Kennedy's assassination, a national and international network of those conspiracy theorists is still hard at it – but in those four-plus decades, there has not been even one real-world consequence. The 9/11 conspiracy theorists will prove just as fruitful. When so many people concentrate so intensely on one event, so many relatively meaningless details are elevated, and so many theories developed that, rather than taking any steps toward clarity, they render the situation hopelessly muddied.

Conspiracy theorists in general have proven to be more hobbyists than activists. It is important to note that there have been conspiracies that have been uncovered throughout history, usually by journalists, politicians, political activists, and/or ideological critics. By definition, one who exposes a conspiracy is not necessarily a conspiracy theorist.

• What the Kennedy theorists did by implicating every possible government agency and indicting none of them was to reinforce the notion of a vast, governmental conspiracy: If every body and agency could have been involved, and not one has been tried and acquitted or convicted, then they are all potentially guilty. Since conspiracy theorists' whole modus operandi is to assume guilt until innocence is proven, this thinking ends up tarring the whole government. Conveniently, then, this hysteria (with not even as much grounding in reality as the McCarthy-instigated Red Scare of the 1950s) paved the way for the 9/11-related nonsense. An assumption of vast, governmental guilt easily translates into vast, governmental conspiracies.

• Frequently, "truth seekers" reject the notion that they are theorists, claiming instead that they actually have proven their points with facts. Yet there is no one organizing theory of what happened on 9/11. There is not even widespread general agreement on most points.

• There are few things as utterly pointless as calling for a new investigation of 9/11. Why? Any official governmental report is not to be trusted; they are inherently political, massaged, and deliberately spun. Still, these weaknesses are not proof of a conspiracy. Any kind of government study is going to be massive, offering endless amounts of information. A new study would be regarded just as suspiciously as the existing study. Even if it definitively stated that there was a conspiracy, it would be attacked over details and specifics.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:26 pm
 
words.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:27 pm
 
word.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:41 pm
 
You're right John, guess I'm a little passionate about this stuff... it's pretty hard NOT to be.

But not passionate enough to say, write a book about it. Or do any in-depth research about it. Or find any concrete evidence that proves anything. Just passionate enough to read a bunch of stuff online, watch some videos, and post on message boards. A regular Patrick Henry, you are.

If you really believe what you say, PROVE IT. Find real evidence, rather than a pile on inconsequential coincidences that you think add up to something suspicious. Start out with a theory, then find evidence that either backs up that theory or refutes it. That's the scientific method, and that's how you convince people. Rather than cherry picking a million little details and saying they are significant and "prove" something (but never anything, exactly).

Go to graduate school and do your dissertation on it. Convince a doctoral committee. Reading conspiracy-theory websites and watching videos on youtube does not equal "research" and doesn't really amount to anything. It does nothing to change the status quo. Shouting at people that they are stupid because they don't see the "evidence" supposedly all around them accomplishes nothing.

If you really think this stuff is true, I'd think that you would be doing something more substantial with your time than posting on the Goner board about it. Soccer moms going to school board meetings are accomplishing more politically than you are. At least they are out talking to people in the real world and making decisions that effect society, even if it's in a small way. What I cut and pasted above is right-on, conspiracy types are hobbyists, not activists. They don't accomplish or change anything in the real world. It's much easier to visit message boards and proclaim all this stuff rather than do anything substantive about it.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 10:50 pm
 
your a bunch of fucking idiots
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:01 pm
 
i do wanna chime in on where i come in on all of this. I do agree with a lot with what was written up there, actually.

this is dumbed down a lot: i was an africology minor in college (didn't finish), yes, UW-M has an africolgy dept, basically focusing on psychology of racism, civil rights, civil war-era history, yadada....anyway, reading word for word the emancipation proclamation and dissect it and learn that the EC didn't actually free any slaves. It freed slaves in a territory that Lincoln had no control over at that point in time.

basically my point with all that is that we celebrate a man through and through for advancing our country when Lincoln didn't give two shits. He was trying piss off the other side! history is NOT the way we are taught when growing up.

basically, i think i don't trust what we were told about 9/11. the first thing i thought when we were hit was, "well...we, in a sorta way, deserve it" just in the sense of all the terrible things we've done to other countries.

i don't think there's this big evil plan for the world, but i don't doubt that Bush would murder members of his own country to go ahead in their big business, big oil plan....seriously.

i agree up there that theorists tend to not concentrate on other things, but i will say muswell cares about other issues.

and at the end of the day, this still makes me upset more than anything.

sorry, i'm dumb.





plus, i'm part Cherokee Indian, so i hate ALL OF YOU.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:01 pm
 
you're
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:02 pm
 
I've always loved this joke...

Girl: I have a little Cherokee in me
Guy: You want a bigger one?
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:08 pm
 
so Lincoln not freeing slaves = Bush murdering people (??)


i hope someone smarter than i can understand what i'm trying to say. i'm not very eloquent.


to defend muswell, he did post all this shit A LONG ASS TIME AGO AND STOPPED WHEN HE REALIZED NO ONE CARED. the thread was resurrected.


again, it all goes back to britany's pussy.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:14 pm
 
stupider as fuck...
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:18 pm
 
fuck you, brad. seriously.
Posted: Oct 4, 2007 11:19 pm
 
likewise.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:13 am
 
As to me not being politically active, you're absolutely right, I'm not. As Stephanie put it, I've realized nobody cares. Not Goners, not my friends, not my co-workers, parents, aunts, uncles, congressman, senator or sandwich artist. I have no more interest in trying to make people unwillingly see something that's right in their face, nor do I have any interest in fighting against corruption older than any of us. I'd rather play in a band.

Trust me, I've thought long and hard about what's important to me, and as it turns out, perserving any semblance of our society isn't on the list. Humanity isn't so special. It's really hard to watch our country crumble, but it's nothing new in history. False flags and fascism have been around for millennia. 9/11 was shaped by corporate, imperialistic interests that are going to be there til the end of time, and will manifest in countless other ways even after exposing others.

And if you want to paint my disregard as apathy, that's fine with me. I'm responsible for no one but myself, and I'll be keeping it that way... Just me and my "conspiracy theorist" brethren, crying wolf and ourselves to sleep.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:25 am
 
It ain't that no one cares.
Just that this board is a different animal.
The only conspiracy that really took off here was the Jeff Gannon story, the Hunter S. Thompson was a secret society child molester and the Memphis Manatee was Murdered theory.

Which is why dtrain and I still have tin-foil hats, and signal each other at night via morse code with our G.I. Joe walkie-talkies.

Don't taze me, bro.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:25 am
 
there were no buildings.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:25 am
 
I won't Robin, promise.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:34 am
 
and at the end of the day, this still makes me upset more than anything.

sorry, i'm dumb.

the democrat plan that was vetoed was far from health care for children, it also covers families with incomes up to 80,000$ a year.

The Democrat's plan greatly expands SCHIP to the middle class and upper middle class - both children and adults. In fact, 2.1 million children would lose private insurance and have to wait several months to be covered by SCHIP - leaving them "vulnerable" during the waiting period.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 1:45 am
 
people making 400% over the poverty limit dont need free healthcare and 25 years old is not a child. over 10 billion dollars a year looted from medicare causing poor elderly to have to pay more money out of pocket for reduced benefits while 25 year olds making over 80k get free healthcare. this bill isnt about helping children, its about expanding the power of government.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 5:25 am
 
This is the best video I've ever seen about 9/11:

9/11: The True Terrorists
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 4:35 pm
 
the democrat plan that was vetoed was far from health care for children, it also covers families with incomes up to 80,000$ a year.


Even though Bush said that, its not true. Consider the source. It is a bit more complex than your summation, however, I suspect Bush had to veto it to maintain the Republican base.

As far as being personally politically active, well, I spent 2 1/2 weeks all together this year in DC lobbying and networking regarding this and many other issues. My rep is in bed with the NeoCons so the best I can do there is be a pain in her ass and tell everyone I know why they shouldn't vote for her. She was redistricted into power, so it will be hard to get rid of her. I have never visited a 9/11 truth website. I have however studied the NIST report, watched several documentaries and met and talked to people who were there that day. I resurrected this thread partially because I am a shit disturber, but also because I hope that people will try to let go of their bias and look at the available information. Certainly there is kooky dismissable stuff, but there is also enough to warrant an independant investigation. I believe survivors and family members deserve our support for a new investigation.
Posted: Oct 5, 2007 10:37 pm | Edited by: uncledaddy
 
It is amazing how much time can be spent refuting this endless flood of nonsense, which is probably the purpose for this propaganda.


the first time i posted on this board was a thread were bradx was touting conspiracy theory after theaoy about the " fake" moon landing. which is about as paranoid as it gets. those theories are based on absolutley no facts at all. just assumption by people who think they now what its like to walk on the moon.
that train of though is as stupider as it gets. and the repercussions of a "fake moon landing are far les than the prospect of government involment or even complicity in 911.
so how can you reconcile your stalwart position on this lesser, more ridiculous conspiracy while putting forth a front than only idiots are prone to be taken in by some pretty reasonable arguments and tons of evidence that there is more to 911 than the gov. says there is..
complicity is STILL a conspiracy. like muswell said, milking terror for the ssake of advancing an agenda is STILL conspiracy. using conspiracy theories to hide the truth about aspects of certain affairs is STILL conspiracy. shit, cheney created a new system that temred documents that SHOULD be publis as being TREATED as classified. thats some nefarious shit. there are plenty of arguments that make sense, its just that the official story isn't one of them, which implies conspiracy.
so, we may be idiots to you brad, but you seem like an argumentative hypocrite.
HA!
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 2:11 am
 
your reatarded
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 2:19 am
 
Pretty sure I've told you people. Col. Mustard did it. In the cloak room. With a lightsaber.
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 2:28 am
 
It's time to "double foil" your hat Mister Stands. You know what I mean right?
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 10:50 am
 
so how can you reconcile your stalwart position on this lesser, more ridiculous conspiracy while putting forth a front than only idiots are prone to be taken in by some pretty reasonable arguments and tons of evidence that there is more to 911 than the gov. says there is..
skrewdriver werent rascist.
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 3:21 pm
 
Quoting authorities at each other endlessly and selling conclusions based on "Facts" not observed directly is foolish and a waste of time.

If you weren't there, all you have are reports, so you are left with belief, not knowledge. Conclusion based on belief is religion, is it not?
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 4:28 pm
 
I was there. I suggest you get your tinfoil hat and don't taze nobody bro.
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 10:49 pm
 
The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking (as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics). All the "evidence" for a 9/11 conspiracy falls under the rubric of this fallacy. Such notions are easily refuted by noting that scientific theories are not built on single facts alone but on a convergence of evidence assembled from multiple lines of inquiry.

Conspiricists argue that the buildings should have fallen over on their sides, but with 95 percent of each building consisting of air, they could only have collapsed straight down.

All the 9/11 conspiracy claims are this easily refuted. On the Pentagon "missile strike," for example, I queried the would-be filmmaker about what happened to Flight 77, which disappeared at the same time. "The plane was destroyed, and the passengers were murdered by Bush operatives," he solemnly revealed. "Do you mean to tell me that not one of the thousands of conspirators needed to pull all this off," I retorted, "is a whistle-blower who would go on TV or write a tell-all book?" My rejoinder was met with the same grim response I get from UFOlogists when I ask them for concrete evidence: Men in Black silence witnesses, and dead men tell no tales.

another informative link is here
http://www.savagelogic.com/articles.php?id=3

Perhaps there's a Pentagon or CIA office that churns out this material. Its mission: distract people from the real wrongdoing. Now there's a conspiracy theory worth exploring.

[i]Now, a "controlled demolition" that succeeds where the 1993 WTC bombing failed should be sufficient, but for some reason, the neocon cabal thought it necessary to go through with the hijacked planes plot, even though they were deemed insufficient to do the job. And they managed to coordinate them in such a way so that they crashed into the buildings at the exact locations of the rigged explosives -- can't have anyone seeing explosions in another part of the buildings -- and manage to do that without setting off the explosives prematurely ...

What fucking planet are these people from?

No one with the bizarre "explosives theory" has explained how the hell these hypothetical explosives would not have been set off by the fires for all the time the fires burned. How the hell would the hypothetical wires and remote controls to these hypothetical fire-resistant explosives withstood the fires? The theory is of such tortured logic I really find it incredible that some people believe it.
Posted: Oct 6, 2007 10:49 pm
 
he Muswell Hillbilly
Member Posted: Oct 4, 2007, 7:13 pm
I'd rather play in a band.


goodnight loving rules it.

basically my point with all that is that we celebrate a man through and through for advancing our country when Lincoln didn't give two shits. He was trying piss off the other side! history is NOT the way we are taught when growing up.

it was a strategic move to destabilize the economy of the south. he knew that if freed the slaves in the border states those states would join the csa. he didnt want to give up the ohio river and washington dc. interestingly, my black students always think that he did the right thing when we study this.
Posted: Oct 7, 2007 12:23 am
 
I freed the black man!
Posted: Oct 7, 2007 12:24 am
 
Soccer moms going to school board meetings are accomplishing more politically than you are.
best line ever. I spit the beer the coors bought from the nazis out my nose
Posted: Oct 7, 2007 12:26 am
 
which one?
Posted: Oct 7, 2007 12:27 am
 
anyway, reading word for word the emancipation proclamation and dissect it and learn that the EC didn't actually free any slaves. It freed slaves in a territory that Lincoln had no control over at that point in time.

well I guess we all know you passed the first semester.
Posted: Oct 7, 2007 1:21 am
 
this thread sucks.
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