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Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:06 am
 
what's your opinions?
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:10 am
 
great to drive on. I much prefer it to the wagon tracks of olden days.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:15 am
 
I like the simpler catchy tunes, but thought they were a poor man's Sonic Youth, or even Archers of Loaf, on their more angular, indie, or experimental stuff.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:46 am
 
Funny you should ask! They're one my least favorite bands!
Kind of inspired a lot of the worst indie rock of today, in my opinion.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:17 am
 
more like a poor poor poor poor poor the poorest man's pixies.

with a winier voice. but i still like them.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:29 am
 
I tried listening a few months ago to whatever I had read was their best album, and it wasn't half as good as it's praise.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:16 am
 
i like 'em, or liked 'em. like the fall playing pop music, at least for a while. minus the menacing bass lines, and behind a wall of static. sure there's distance. but stockton rock worked for me for a minute. stockton? not john stockton. nope! nice guys, too. GARY YOUNG ruled w/yellow eyeballs!

DEBRIS SLIDE!
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:41 am
 
I thought they were a rich man's Fall, but I'm pretty ignorant on 'em. I've heard them alot, but never really went in depth because I never liked anything I heard. I've been thinking about investigating. It seems like something I might be interested in sometimes, but sometimes it doesn't.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 7:55 am
 
Early sides = classic US undie rock.

Out-noises, lo-fis, cool guitar-sounds, and songwrites 90 percent of what is today. After that, it's on you.

Go Westing, young man....


(p.s. not really for "punks")
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 8:09 am
 
yep, first 7" rules after that your on your own
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 1:59 pm
 
No bueno. Rich kids slumming it up being "arty". Their crazy hippy drummer producer was funny. For a minute. The Pixies had songs, the Fall had some bile. Trust Fund Rock.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 2:29 pm
 
Out-noises, lo-fis, cool guitar-sounds, and songwrites 90 percent of what is today. After that, it's on you.


Agreed. Definitely trust fund rock, but this was not a mark against them initially. When everyone started figuring out they were rich professors kids who went to UVA and they started remembering that themselves is when there started to be a "problem". I liked em a lot and bought my copy of Demolition Plot J-7 from ERIC O; I think that was the first time we met, huh?
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 2:59 pm
 
had a feud w/ them back an forth in the melody maker after my feud w/ sonic youth. then i seen pavement boy on the street an he gave me the peace sign so i gave him the finger. he used to be in the dustdevils but wrote to the pavement guy an asked to be in the band. best line ever was when he was givin one of those mrr losers shit an the kid shot back fuck you, i been doin this longer than you been playin in sonic youth rip off bands.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 2:59 pm
 
First album's got some good stuff, and I really like those early singles (comped onto that CD ferget the name). Haven't aged all that well, but there are good moments.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:03 pm
 
I thought they were OK when I first heard them, but was unimpressed after seeing them live. I ignored new music during the wimp rock era.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:10 pm
 
When I was a teenager obsessed with skateboarding, I thought they were pretty great. I haven't listened to em for awhile now though.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:14 pm
 
early ep's (as collected on Westing...) through Wowee Zowee were fantastic... got pretty boring pretty quick after that. They were far and away my favorite band in high school and maybe part of college. Well, as far as bands went that released anything post-1982, that is. Responsible for a lot of shit indie wank unfortunately, but they did rip off the best bands without being boring.

I really don't get the Pixies comparison though.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:15 pm
 
mrr losers

who this?
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 4:52 pm
 
I don't see the Pixies either. I read something recently that said Nirvana was a Pixies rip off band; I think that was simply said to be contrarian and "cool" by some Tampa scenemaker who made a list of Top 10 Worst Bands...there were MUCH worse bands than Nirvana. Much. Some of the same label(s).
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:03 pm
 
well, I think Cobain went on the record saying as much. And at least they have the whole -quiet-LOUD/DISTORTION-quiet- song structure, poppy bass line thing going on.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:07 pm
 
Nirvana was a Wipers rip off band - you can hear it all over them (and they covered Wipers songs & were from the same region). The Pixies were terrible, and if anything ripped off the quiet/loud thing from other bands that pre-dated them (it was a common thing at the time).
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:08 pm
 
"westing" and "slanted & enchanted" still hold up for me. most days "crooked rain" and "wowee zowee" do, too. but they're definitely less on the skree and more on the indie.

that "slanted" 2cd re-issue is probably the best place to start. it also has the "watery domestic" ep, and the live stuff covers a bit of "westing." oh, and it's super cheap.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:13 pm
 
true, true. I'm just saying that I can see the Pixies/ Nirvana comparison, not so much the Pixies/ Pavement thing. Though I'm sure Pavement (and thousands of other bands) did the quiet/ loud deal.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:34 pm
 
I know what you're saying....you know what totally sounds like Nirvana (but pre-dated them)? Squirrel Bait's first mini-LP, especially stuff like "Sun God." At the time, everyone was passing them off as "Westerburg backed by Husker Du," which sounded about right at the time, but I've played that record for people now and they all mention Nirvana. Almost uncanny at times.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 5:36 pm | Edited by: bazooka joe
 
.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:03 pm
 
Nirvana (but pre-dated them)? Squirrel Bait's first mini-LP, especially stuff like "Sun God."

Total.

Dudes in Cleveland I know, now have a band called Sun God.

"Trust Fund Rock" is a bout the lamest insult on a band ever. I don't think all you ghetto-dwelling hardscrabble Target-shopping punk rockers out there really wanna know who was rich and who wasn't in this convoluted underground rock history of "ours." Might not jive with your "ethics." It's music, y'know?

'Watery, Domestic' EP rules.

Pixies? Uh, no. Try Swell Maps, Fall, etc. Also, they sound nothing like Sonic Youth. Man, some of your ears, I swear. For now on, any band with loud guitars and a singer is a "Stooges rip-off band."

Ned, that was Mark Ibold. You shoulda punched his lights out, tuff guy.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:03 pm
 
I was gonna respond to this thread, but I got high and said fuck it. Let's get a few things straight: You're DAD. I'm DOUG? Understand? Forget it, man, you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm...I'm OUUUUUUUTA HERE!
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:20 pm
 
"Trust Fund Rock" is a bout the lamest insult on a band ever.

totally. i think that's naive.

billy gibbons grew up rich as shit.


this pavement conversation pops up every 6 months. pavement didn't sound like the pixies. the pixies could ROCK and SING and SLAY SOLOS when they put mind to frets. pavement cultivated "brink of drink" live shows. fun to watch. nirvana? please. i'm not a nirvana aficionado, but they were a ROCK BAND. pavement boys were intellectual and goofy and soft centered. viva that early stuff that used to propel me around northampton streets stoned.

and scott was HOT and wholesome looking. yum.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:24 pm
 
totally. i think that's naive.


all the rich kids feel that way.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:35 pm
 
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:42 pm
 
i love when gaylick tries to teach me stuff i lived through an he read about in books. most bands that get big came from trust funds. it's pretty impossible to get off the ground w/ out any dough. see jon an chris spencer in nyc for starters. plus kim an thurston. an kramer's wife bankrolled shimmy disc for years. an jenna circa now. except she's not big. i guess money can't buy everything.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 6:58 pm
 
I'm not trying to teach you shit, fuckface. I wasn't even responding to you. I didn't read about it in books, I am actually old enough to be into Pavement when they were fresh and no one knew their real names. So, please, eat your little penis for lunch.

Now, as for money, I've never had much, but I ain't bitter against those who do, especially if they make cool music. Ned Hayden, if you weren't born in New York would you have done anything with your life? Probably not, and that's fuckin lame.

it's pretty impossible to get off the ground w/ out any dough

What a lame thing to say. Viva la Punk Rock, eh, Ned?

Also, being scared of Mark Ibold makes you a giant pussy.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 7:06 pm
 
You guys are both agruing the same point, though: Somebody has to fund this shit in order for it to go anywhere. Even if you look at Nirvana (pretty good example of piss poor guys getting huge, no?), Kurt Cobain had a sugar momma girlfriend who supported him for most of the early days. Homeless people tend to not become rock stars, as I have noticed.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 7:10 pm
 
But nobody was talking about "going anywhere" (least I wasn't), just "making good music." Ain't no salary cap on that shit.

Finally, I point you towards one Elvis P. Presley.

Secondly, I'm off to The Hamptons.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 7:13 pm
 
Speaking of Mark Ibold, of whom I am not frightened, I saw him play in DUSTdevils in 1990 opening for Unrest in Chicago.

Pavement's early stuff was great even when they were straight rippin' VU, but I stopped buying when "Crooked Rain x2" came out. I just really had all the Pavement I needed by then. Friends & I dug "Slanted..." when it was new, but I once I stopped playing it, I sorta put it away altogether. Now, I'm not sure I can recall when was the last time I thought "I'd love to hear some Pavement right now."

Only ever saw them at Lalapalooza '95 in Columbus.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 7:31 pm
 
heir ick, wait. let my driver take you to the hamptons. i've given him the day off. but please be a dear and check on my greenhouse roses, will you? you know, the ones seeded from peggy guggenheim's collection?
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 8:25 pm
 
Um, yeah, been meaning to tell you. I kinda ripped those up and kinda replaced 'em with poppies. Sorry. My assistant will reimburse you.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 9:14 pm
 
I thought this was going to be a thread on different forms of asphalt covering our streets today,but apparently it's about some rock band i've never heard of. Since i've never heard of them before in my entire life they must not really exist,and i have absolutely nothing to say about them.

That said,i miss cobblestone roads.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 9:23 pm
 
faglick you are a total idiot. the first swingers single was made for $100. a month after it came out it got a big review in melody maker by everett true an the rest is history. as for pavement boy, why would i wanna kick his ass??? he's not half as much of an asshole an a loser as you. an there's a good reason why you never had any money an never will. now go clean off those tables mr. low self esteem.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 9:39 pm
 
the first swingers single was made for $100. a month after it came out it got a big review in melody maker by everett true an the rest is history

What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Ned, IT IS 2007. Check your calender. 2007.

e's not half as much of an asshole an a loser as you.

Nobody is. I take pride in that. Some "feud," by the way.

mr. low self esteem.

Not hardly, but if you wanna give me any sort of Dr. Phil advice, I'm all ears.

the rest is history

Yeah, thought I saw a thing on VH1 about that shit. Kim and Thurston and
Jon and Crisitina and Johan and Gerard and your momma
were talking about what a dumb fucking shitstain you are.


the first swingers single was made for $100

By the way, I hate myths like this. So, your guitars, recording equipment, drums, mics, record pressing, mailing out records, mastering, drugs, beer, tape, etc. only cost 100 bucks?!?! That IS amazing.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 9:58 pm
 
nobody cares what you hate, busboy. an what excatly was it that you did to make you such an authority??? i remember you used to pretend to have a radio show before you moved to new york to clean up tables. funny how you can't get on the air here. or make a record. orhave a record label or do anything except talk shit on the internet. at least i had a band that was actually on record labels an got written about an flew around the world playin shows an stuff. not to mention my two record labels. what are you doin to make 2007 so great, assface????
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 10:14 pm
 
That said,i miss cobblestone roads.


Most side streets here are still all brick, joe P! Very cute, but hell on the suspension.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 10:19 pm
 
"Trust Fund Rock" is a bout the lamest insult on a band ever.

Love ya man, but gotta say that one is sorta appropriate sometimes. Not that it has to always be an insult. But it is kinda funny. You know how a lot of those Drag City boys are...total trust funders or they have professor dads or grew up on a race horse farm et al. Breeds some very similar types that end up really cliquing up even after trying to slum. I remember when the first Pavement stuff came out, pre any touring and people really thought they were total scum rock junkies or something. But alas, clean cut lit majors who liked Spacemen 3 records.
Posted: Feb 20, 2007 10:31 pm
 
Ned, please send me your address and I will send you the imminent 12" EP of my band forthwith.

I won't even address the radio thing, you obviously have no clue how college radio works. Odd for someone who had two record labels.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 2:14 am
 
Uh,...EXCUSE ME??!!

If your heading to the Hamptons PLEASE call my PA and have my drycleaning dropped off at the place by the beach for me. You know, the place where Lizzy G had her "incident". It's next to that. I'll have Pepe run it down to your "driver" when he get's here. I have a semi-formal gala coming up out there and really don't have time to have my help running this stuff around you know. I'll totally make it up to you. I'll arrange the Zigfield to hold 2 tickets to Spinning Into Butter when it comes out. And be sure to check out my OTHER new film coming out this year "SMART PEOPLE". It's HALARIOUS!

In the meantime ,

BUY MY PERFUME! Ta-Ta!
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 2:43 am
 
trust fund rock


is that like Weezer?
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 2:47 am
 
That said,i miss cobblestone roads.

there's one in hattiesburg. you should visit.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 2:49 am
 
Most side streets here are still all brick, joe P! Very cute, but hell on the suspension.

oh wait, that's a brick road. nevermind.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 10:55 am
 
everett true
even lamer reviewer and trendsetter than "superdope" Jay
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 4:36 pm
 
I've never had much, but I ain't bitter against those who do.

I am. Fuck it. In my experience the people with the money have less to say, because they've experienced less interesting things. They're usually alot less sincere in their music. I mean, who wants to hear someone sing about how they went to a private school and did alot of blow with the son of a senator? No, they'll usually fake it all.

I'd love to straight up start robbing alot of people I know, but unfortunately, as those are the people that are usually well known and shit, it's just shooting yourself in the foot, so I'll continue doing better things than them, having to work ten times as hard at it, and in the end, hopefully people call them out for being trust funders too.

Fuckin' class war and shit.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 4:40 pm
 
I wish I was born rich. i wanna have loads of stuff. belee dat.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 4:42 pm
 
you'll still be ugly.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:36 pm
 
"Trust Fund Rock" is only an insult when adressing those with a false sense of entitlement. Most all of the examples listed are bands I don't really care for. Ok, I like some of the Sonic Youth stuff and I can take about 10 minutes of J Spencer. I don't propose class war/envy like banned, but think a lot of "resources" could be better served by people that actually have something to say/offer. I don't believe the govt. should fund artists either. Another sources of false entitlement. As for Cobain's sugar momma, there have always been "patrons" of the arts. They are usually called strippers.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:38 pm
 
I don't propose class war


I do.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:57 pm
 
I don't propose class war


I do.


Which side do you think you're on?
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:58 pm | Edited by: banned
 
One of the biggest problems with trust fund rock is that the system is set up to disproportionately favor those with the money. They get paid more, because they have the better equipment which promoters and audiences generally judge as giving a better "experience." When you're not challenging people, because you have no "real" experiences to share an audience, it's much easier for the masses to consume. The people with the safety nets are always the ones that are going to be making the money. It's fucked up and if you don't think so, it's most likely because you have a safety net yourself and favor a system that gives you the advantage.

I don't believe in gov't subsidized rock either, but I do believe in stealing from bands with rich parents. Fuck 'em. and fuck you too.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:58 pm
 
JOE MAMA'S SIDE!
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 6:59 pm
 
I don't believe in gov't subsidized rock either, but I do believe in stealing from bands with rich parents. Fuck 'em. and fuck you too.


YEAH!!!!!
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:13 pm
 
and fuck you too.

Dude, wtf?
If you were such an outsider outlaw, why are playing sxsw? That's the biggest trust fund parade in the world. Basically it's the equivalent of a slave auction. Isn't that hipacritical?

favor a system that gives you the advantage.

What advantage? There's no advantage to having better equipment, that's something that stupid little kids buy into, forever insuring the sale of Mesa Boogies and PRS and DW. Musical equipment and technology have never been cheaper. With the major label system obsolete, ANYONE has access. It what you do with that access that makes a difference.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:16 pm
 
that's not a very punk attitude carney. go make me a burrito!
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:20 pm
 
I don't believe in gov't subsidized rock either, but I do believe in stealing from bands with rich parents. Fuck 'em. and fuck you too.


That's retarded.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:20 pm
 
If you were such an outsider outlaw, why are playing sxsw?

Because I was invited. I never signed up for it. I didn't pay to be accepted. I was asked and told I'd be paid over 200$ to perform, which is more than I've ever made for a single show. I also have friends in Austin who offered to put me up for the weekend and it gave me an excuse to tour.


There's no advantage to having better equipment

I'm not talking about Marshal stacks. I don't own an amplifier. I own three broken acoustic guitars, a cheapo 4-track, a toy keyboard and a computer that I use to program beats on since I can't find a steady drummer. Everything else I use is either borrowed or stolen and all of that is barely useable too. Musical equipment is not cheap. I used to work fifty hours a week, could still barely afford my rent and I couldn't save up to buy guitars, amps, or the other equipment I needed, much less put out my own music. Getting as far as I have, which ain't very far has taken me fifteen years of hard work doing this same shit constantly.

and the "fuck you too" was not directed at anyone in particular, but how I feel when this shit is brought up, because everyone always talks about how easy it is, and it is for them, but anyone who knows a thing about me knows how fucking hard it's been. I try not to whine about shit very often, in fact I try to exploit my own weaknesses, failures and bad luck, cause that's all I got anyway.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:21 pm
 
carney asada.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:35 pm
 
go make me a burrito

Bend your own taco, bith.

Musical equipment is not cheap
Really it is. You can buy a guitar and amp suitable for gigging for under 200 bucks easy. That's not a lot of dough. And cdrs are incredibly cheap to make. The point is, you can make great music with very little money. It's never been easier or cheaper to record. You've proven that yourself. You've managed to create an awareness of your music and get a sxsw slot. And you scored a good opening slot at the doubledoor, I don't think the promoters are biased against you for lack of credible gear.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:39 pm
 
Things are starting to happen for me. I'm proud and grateful for that. I did spend two years without a single show offer however. I was an "active" band, but I was considered a joke. And two hundred dollars sure is alot of money to me. It always has been.

And CDrs are useless. I was releasing my music on CDr for years and it did nothing. I had to move back in with my parents, start working 50 hours a week for a couple months working with hazerdous chemicals in a very unsafe work eviroment, saving up all my cash to put out a 7". That is the only reason anyone knows who Pink Reason is right now.

And you should have seen how the soundguys at the Double Door reacted to our equipment.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 7:42 pm
 
Wowee Zowee's my favorite.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:11 pm
 
Dustdevil's 'Struggling Electric and Chemical' is a cool record. As good as any old Sonic Youth.

I was a scum rock junkie lit major with some money but not a lot. What category do I fall in?
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:15 pm
 
I was a scum rock junkie lit major with some money but not a lot. What category do I fall in?

Same category as mine--supremely uncool, neurotic, careerist (i.e. very fucking uncool), former/current collector scum pissed at spending time as a lib arts major and money not falling from the sky upon graduation.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:18 pm | Edited by: deadcityrebel
 
i learned about pink reason about 2 years ago through soulseek. banned, i think we even had a conversation or two.

supremely uncool, neurotic, careerist (i.e. very fucking uncool), former/current collector scum pissed at spending time as a lib arts major and money not falling from the sky upon graduation.

i think thats called being average
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:21 pm
 
debris slide is still a fun song. they wrote a lot of fun songs, i liked them. not my favorites but yeah, i liked them fine.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:56 pm
 
i'm no sonic youth advocate but the dustdevils were nowhere near their class. the devils were more like 40 year old australians in thrift store clothes w/ spikey haircuts tryin to be the fall. i remember checkin them out one afternoon on a bill w/ h.p. zinkler at cb's w/ thurston. i thought they sucked but he dug it. also charlie ondras did the artwiork to that dustdevils record an wrote no bum my trip losers in tribute to the swingers on the cover.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 9:58 pm
 
i liked the dustdevils and still have the records...but that is par for my course, obviously.
Posted: Feb 21, 2007 10:12 pm
 
i'm no sonic youth advocate but the dustdevils were nowhere near their class.

most of their records are pretty boring and rightfully turned up in the cut-out bins, but that one album stands out. it's got a grittier production and the guitars roar. they've got a good cover of the fall's 'hip priest' on there too.
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