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Goner Message Board / ???? / decisions, decisions
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:32 pm
um.... not that i WILL go with anyone's suggestions BUT, at the moment, i am trying to decide between two images as book cover material for the book version of "punk turns 30"

First Ever Germs Practice - Darby Crash (he's still Paul Beahm here)

Dee Dee Ramone & Stiv Bators

are my choices at this moment. i have reasons why i like each image.

since there is no shortage of opinion here... what is yours?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:34 pm | Edited by: T J Honeysuckle
Are these gonna be like the whole front cover? Or included amongst others?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:35 pm
i want one image on the front cover. so.... its got to be iconic - either the shot or the person
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:35 pm
How did Jay Reatard get in that second pic, and when did he dye his hair?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:35 pm
Do you have a nice shot of Chris D?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:37 pm
nice shot of Chris D

not a "nice" one. chris d is a chapter leader photo - and the pic is under type face
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:38 pm | Edited by: Windy
How did Jay Reatard get in that second pic, and when did he dye his hair?
you just made the millionaire pee his pants. He's still on the floor laughing uncontrollably
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:39 pm
it's true!
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:43 pm
It looks like the same person who wrote "the Germs" on that amp wrote it on the wall behind Dee Dee.
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:45 pm
well, we're talking about images shot in the same town, so it was probably darby crash who wrote that.

i have a photo of his scrawl on my dormitory hallways too, together with a floor to ceiling sized turkey w/ a ball and chain attached to one of its legs and the international symbol for NO - the red circle w/ the line thru it. only its signed "bobby pyn"
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:47 pm
Sorry for that sidebar, I lost my train of thought there. Been obsessing on the Flesh Eaters again recently.
Not helping...I'll shut up now.
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:49 pm
Theresa, did you ever find the picture you took of Olivia Newton John, barely clothed, holding a sign that reads "Hey, Robin! Call Me! Luv U, ONJ"?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:52 pm
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:52 pm
Sweet boots vs. Zippy the Pinhead. That's a tough one.

DeeDee/Stiv is fun and colorful while Crash one is moody and "artier."

Which one is closer to the tone of the book?
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:53 pm
they both really suck. i hope you got better pictures than that.
Posted: Feb 15, 2007 11:57 pm
too bad you don't have any photos of em' shootin drugs...That shit sells. put that on the cover. The teenie boppers will be all over it.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 12:00 am
How did Jay Reatard get in that second pic, and when did he dye his hair?

is that billy broad?
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 12:05 am
Theresa K,
I say go with Darby.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 1:04 am
I agree if you don't have any photos of em' shootin drugs...
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:09 am
I'd go with option 2
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:16 am
Not to sound like a dick, but neither one of these is iconic book cover material. They are both odd shots where the people are kinda of obscured by other things. You got more action shots???
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:17 am
I mean they are sitting down, ya know? A live shot of Darby would be better. Or Stiv. Or whatever.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 5:07 am
Or Stiv
hanging himself with a mic cord
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 7:04 am
what are the reasons you like each image?
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 7:09 am
Darby. For sure. I wanted it to be comparable. When I looked at the photos I was like, "I'm not gonna tink about who these pictures are of." But, either way, and it is hard to clear the mind, the first one is such a better photo. Like world better. Not in the same category.

I'd like other choices, but from the above options, it is absolutely no contest.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 7:17 am
Ditto on the Darby tip
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:00 pm
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:31 pm | Edited by: krakhaus
I can't say I'm familiar with all your work but in my opinion you seem to be more concerned with the "importance" of the subjects in these two photos than the quality of them.

If these were unknowns I don't think you'd want those photos on the cover.

Does it have anything to do with needing a horizontally composed image rather than vertical?

If I HAD to chose I'd say Darby.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 2:41 pm
I agree w/ Singles, I've seen so much better from Theresa. Unless you're cropping those images, the composition is jumbled and they seem more incidental than enlightening.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 3:03 pm
of the two, i'd use darby.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 3:52 pm
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 4:01 pm
They are both odd shots where the people are kinda of obscured by other things.

totally. not cover material at all. and also, not to be a dick...
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 4:32 pm | Edited by: CrucialDude
go with the Belinda n00dz -- sex sells!

(I know i bought that one)
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 4:35 pm
woah, chez what?
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 4:44 pm
Theresa, did you ever dig up the Red Cross, Quick, and Berlin Brats photos? and I'd go with Darby of the two photos also.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 4:47 pm
if only she had Jane Wiedlin n00dz - i would be 'indisposed' for a month
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 5:05 pm
i kind of agree with the general feeling here that these two are not the best photos for the cover, but i want to hear your reasons for liking them. of the two i'd say the darby is a much, much better photograph, but i've seen much more iconic photos of darby, even from your archive. so if you're really going for iconic, i'd keep looking. if you're going for subdued and understated icons, go with the darby.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 6:16 pm
theresa, what imprint did you get signed to? that's great news.

i would go with the darby crash over the second one--it's more nihilistic, more controlled.

but i would go for the debbie harry slinking down the microphone over both of those--for a million different reasons, one being that you'll quite likely sell more copies from the cover photo alone.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 6:19 pm
Here's some of mine... They're snappy cam pix that bloomed under my scanner. I have a stack of them about 4 or 5 inches high.

45 Grave @ The Ritz 1981
[url=http://usera.imagecave.com/butchersfloor/punkThe_Damned@Godzillas _1981]
The Damned @ Godzilla's 1981[/url]
TSOL @ Godzilla's 1981
Agent Orange @ ??? early 80's
45 Grave on the Marque of The Whiskey a Go Go
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 6:21 pm
The Stiv and Dee Dee one cos it's in colour. And cos its got a Vox Phantom, bubblegum and theyre smiling. It makes punk look like fun. The Darby one looks too serious.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 6:28 pm | Edited by: Haunted George
Let me try The Damned @ Godzilla's 1981 again...
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:23 pm
Or Stiv
hanging himself with a mic cord

i got so many of those that i'm bored of them

thanks for everyone's input.... i am going to actually write a few of you offline..

i have NO CRITICAL DISTANCE about my own work....and also, i just don't like live action rock shots....

there are three things i'm trying to balance --
1) "unguarded moments" and "never before seen" images of the famous/infamous/cult figures, etc

2) all the things people expect

3) good pictures, regardless of the subject and by good pictures, i mean technically good (composition, exposure, etc)

i want to use either something totally rare/obscure of a known person (ie: darby) OR something really well-known and associated w/ me --- like any number of Stiv pix (and those i have to divvy up between my book and another book by someone else where he is a major player).

on the other hand.... there's this thing about celebrating what LA brought to punk rock and the germs figure in there... because i'm from LA and we take a lot of crap from people who write about punk, giving us short shrift behind NYC and London

i am burned out on that debbie harry on her knees pic because i've used it as a promo image for a couple years - and most people seem to be attracted to one i don't think is a big deal, where's she's crossing her arms in an X over her chest. then you have people like bradx whose opinion probably represents way more people than i give him credit for, who reliably pipes up and says BLONDIE SUCKS... even though millions of people bought their records.

i don't know.... i consider all these things

i love that darby one because he is completely incidental in the tableau... and the whole thing is just a tableau. and then you look again and see different things. and it kind of sums up how i feel about being in the middle of the whole punk rock thing. looking back on it, one can see it was an important epochal moment, but IN IT ? we were a bunch of kids figuring out who we were, what life was and where our next $5 for a gig or tank of gas was coming from. punk rock - that's what we did, involuntarily.... like breathing... completely incidental to the tableau that was life in the 70s. that some of these people are known beyond their circle of friends (ie: darby, as pictured) is just..... "wow. who knew?"

that's why i have to ask opinionated people. because there are as many opinions as there are customers.... and i want to give people a reason to open the book and look inside.

here's a really small image of a postcard that i frequently use....

believe it or not.... i've become really bored of these images. but there's your icons...

thanks again
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:25 pm
i am going to actually write a few of you offline..

Yes, I really need that picture of Olivia Newton John.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:29 pm
would stevie nicks do instead?
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:29 pm
Gotta go with Dee Dee and Stiv.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:30 pm
Yeah, I need that, too. I'm going to airbrush a mural on the side of someone's van. Whether they like it, or not.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:35 pm
If your deadset on using one of those two I'd say it has to be the Bobby Pyn pic, but it's gonna need a good amount of cropping on the right side cuz Pat Smear's (?) legs look kinda dumb there. I love all the amps though.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:39 pm
i'm not dead set on anything.
i love the amps too! and "the germs" written on the amp grill!

anytime something weird or unusual or that i haven't seen in 30 years catches my eye.... i change my mind! for ages, i was set on a pic of two dead boys flipping the bird - but they weren't the RIGHT dead boys, you know?
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:40 pm
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:49 pm
nice. but seriously, i don't see how you expect anybody to get excited about your book if that's all the effort you put into choosin a cover shot. you need somethin dynamic. close range.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:51 pm
would stevie nicks do instead?

I say put Stevie Nicks on the cover.

I like the Darby pic better, but generally agree that it is an odd book cover shot, esp. for a book with that title. Maybe if it were slightly cropped so you could see how damn young he looks then it would be more appropriate in the context.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 10:55 pm
I think you should find an old cool pic of a "nobody" that maybe you took and forgot about, maybe don't remember at all...that would be punk
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 11:39 pm

Yes, I really need that picture of Olivia Newton John.

Leave it alone, Stands.
Posted: Feb 16, 2007 11:54 pm
I think you should find an old cool pic of a "nobody" that maybe you took and forgot about, maybe don't remember at all...that would be punk

Good idea.
Posted: Feb 17, 2007 1:24 am | Edited by: jblundell
i like your reasoning for using one of these two. its definitely going to be a balancing act to make all parties happy. i guess what you need to consider is that the cover does set the tone for the whole book. so, if you use the punk icons subdued, unguarded moment, it will (in a way) tell the viewer that the book is going to contain a volume of those moments.

its really tough.

the blondie pic is associated with you, as is the germs practice photo and the stivs, and i understand why you wouldn't want to use them because you're tired of them, even though they are the surefire iconic shots.

i think you're on the right track to find an obscure, incidental shot of a well known figure. hit your contact sheets and look at all the photos you didn't circle back in the day. its definitely outtake time.

of the two i still say the darby is head and shoulders above the stivvvers/dee
Posted: Feb 18, 2007 1:31 am
thanks everyone....

punkturns30 blog is two years old today!!!

i got too much carpal tunnel stinging to write emails... but there's a few of you who have ?'s i want to answer and also yak w/ offline... maybe tomorrow...

its BBQ time!
Posted: Feb 18, 2007 4:14 am
Whether they like it, or not.
i just bought a van with tons of dead space itching to be used
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