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Goner Message Board / ???? / attn mac volk...
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 2:47 am
 
was thinking of gettin me a macbook for laptoppin around. not sure if time is right for the core duo deali-o... running window/mac OS at the same time sounds good but kinks probably not worked out yet. i also have some old-ass programs that still work fine on my old-ass mac (g3/266) that i might want to use with new-ass OS- will OS9 programs still work with "Rosetta" or whatever it's called? Tiger? Panther? Jagjaguar?

advice? thoughts? thanks!
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 2:49 am | Edited by: eric o
 
for example, this from http://www.apple.com/rosetta/

Most of the applications that come on your Intel-based Mac are Universal applications, designed for screaming performance with the Intel Core Duo. That includes Mac OS X, iLife '06, Safari and Mail. Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express, Shake and Final Cut Express are not supported by Rosetta. For most applications, you can upgrade to the Universal version for minimal cost (see "Apple Applications" to right). Third-party applications that require precision real-time playback may perform better with a Universal version. For the expected arrival dates of Universal versions of third-party applications, check with their manufacturers.

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does that mean they won't work at all, or just won't be optimized for the new intel chip action?
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 2:58 am | Edited by: ChrisG
 
My understanding is "won't be optimized", but I'm not certain. I'm going to follow this thread as I have a G5, but my wife and I are contemplating an Intel MacBook in our future.

Places to research:

MacForums:
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/

Apple's help forums:
http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa

MacRumors' forums:
http://forums.macrumors.com/index.php
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:04 am
 
for example, this from http://www.apple.com/rosetta/

Most of the applications that come on your Intel-based Mac are Universal applications, designed for screaming performance with the Intel Core Duo. That includes Mac OS X, iLife '06, Safari and Mail. Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express, Shake and Final Cut Express are not supported by Rosetta. For most applications, you can upgrade to the Universal version for minimal cost (see "Apple Applications" to right). Third-party applications that require precision real-time playback may perform better with a Universal version. For the expected arrival dates of Universal versions of third-party applications, check with their manufacturers.

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does that mean they won't work at all, or just won't be optimized for the new intel chip action?


Rosetta - obviously named for the Rosetta Stone - is basically a translator. It tells non-Universal apps how to work with the Intel chip. Unfortunately, it can only do so much.

Apps that are NOT supported by Rosetta will NOT run on the Intel-based Mac. Period. So you've either got to upgrade to the Universal versions *or* wait till the Universal versions come out before you bother.

As to the programs that *are* supported by Rosetta...Keep in mind that they may run slower than before, even though your new chip is faster. This is simply because there's an extra layer of work that has to be done before the instructions can be executed. In most cases, this probably isn't a big deal, but in some cases - certain Photoshop filters, etc. - it might be rather noticeable.

Realistically, eventually you'll want all your apps to be Universal.

I've got a bunch of computers here, including a few different Macs. The one I'm typing on right now is an Intel iMac. It runs pretty damn well. I don't run many heavy-duty apps on it right now, so I haven't had to really deal with any Rosetta slowdowns. I'm running a version of Office that's probably 5 years old, but it hasn't slowed down as far as I can tell. (I'm comparing to the G5 iMac I have.)

I don't really do much in the way of graphics work or even pro-level audio/video, so I haven't had to deal with the pro apps. I mainly use the consumer-level stuff Apple puts on...Garageband for any computer recording I might want to do (mainly podcasts) and iMovie for fooling around with video. Those are both Universal already...And they come with every Mac.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:08 am
 
for example, this from http://www.apple.com/rosetta/

Most of the applications that come on your Intel-based Mac are Universal applications, designed for screaming performance with the Intel Core Duo. That includes Mac OS X, iLife '06, Safari and Mail. Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple including Final Cut Pro, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Aperture, Logic Pro, Logic Express, Shake and Final Cut Express are not supported by Rosetta. For most applications, you can upgrade to the Universal version for minimal cost (see "Apple Applications" to right). Third-party applications that require precision real-time playback may perform better with a Universal version. For the expected arrival dates of Universal versions of third-party applications, check with their manufacturers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----

does that mean they won't work at all, or just won't be optimized for the new intel chip action?


In case you're wondering how I came up with my answer:
1) Read what you quoted from the Apple page about Rosetta: "Most existing applications will continue to run, thanks to Rosetta. Pro applications from Apple <snip> are not supported by Rosetta." So the pro applications that were named will NOT continue to run.

2) Field experience: The Logic Express demo didn't run on my Intel iMac.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:15 am
 
2) Field experience: The Logic Express demo didn't run on my Intel iMac.

3) Look at the Logic Express Trial page. For system requirements, it says, PowerPC G4 or faster processor (G5 or dual G4 processors recommended), 512MB of RAM, and Mac OS X version 10.3 or later. Note: This trial does not run on a Mac with Intel processor
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:25 am | Edited by: OrganMiscreant
 
was thinking of gettin me a macbook for laptoppin around. not sure if time is right for the core duo deali-o... running window/mac OS at the same time sounds good but kinks probably not worked out yet.
I've used Parallels. It's good...But don't expect much on the graphics end. I was using some some game creation software. I did the simplest tutorial and found the game wouldn't play 'cuz it just didn't support enough on the graphics side. (And these were SIMPLE.) I emailed their Support and they basically told me they're not supporting much yet, graphics-wise.

In short, don't expect to do Windows-gaming with Parallels Desktop. It'll run regular programs, I guess, but not heavy-duty gaming.

As to speed...It's not bad. It's not perfect, but it's not bad.

You could just install Boot Camp and have a dual-boot machine, but then every time you want to use Windows, you're gonna have to reboot your computer.

VMWare has also announced that they're going to be coming out with their version of what Parallels is doing.

In addition, there's Cider and a couple others that, I think, are either out or not quite out yet...Those will allow the programs to literally run without a layer like Parallels. In other words, they'll be written so that you use an application that was written for Windows while you're in Mac OS. You won't see any kind of virtual environment. The down side is that I think most of these will require you to buy a new version of the program.

i also have some old-ass programs that still work fine on my old-ass mac (g3/266) that i might want to use with new-ass OS- will OS9 programs still work with "Rosetta" or whatever it's called?

Most likely. Get in touch with me and maybe I can give you a better answer than that. I'm pretty sure it's only the pro level stuff that can't be handled by Rosetta.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:30 am
 
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:48 am
 
Wow, looks like OrganMiscreant's got it covered...

I too, have very limited experience with pro apps, so I can't help you there. I would suggest WAITING a year or three for the kinks of an all-new machine to be worked out- and by that time, hopefully most apps will be universal. I've also "heard" that you can download pro apps (like Adobe CS2) off of BitTorrent sites quickly, easily, and freely. Might make upgrading to universal apps a little cheaper...
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:52 am
 
will OS9 programs still work with "Rosetta" or whatever it's called? Tiger? Panther? Jagjaguar?


what they all said BUT.... OS9 programs don't really work with anything else. i have my old iBook with OS9.1 specifically JUST TO work on those programs.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
 
Theresa K wrote:
> ...OS9 programs don't really work with anything else...

I run OS 10.3.9 on a 2x2 G5, and still have a bunch of old OS 9 apps that run in Classic. I've never had a problem, it runs pretty much everything. Now that I've had the machine for a couple of years I don't have much use, as I've upgraded most stuff, but I still have a few apps that were simply never made for OS X. For instance, I use a 3D app called Infini-D which involves pretty heavy graphics and rendering in Classic mode and it runs fine.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 5:55 am
 
I'm glad your OS9 apps run for you in OSX. I had the very first edition of OSX because I was all excited to use it and got it and installed it immediately and I guess it was still really bugged out because even in Classic mode, the OS9 apps didn't work optimally - especially the ones I use daily for my work. I have a desktop Mac in my Nashville place (G5 running Jaguar) for the big photo and graphics stuff I do. I have a weenie Dell (PC) laptop that travels with me. its adequate. I can't afford the Mac laptop i want....
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:12 pm
 
i also have some old-ass programs that still work fine on my old-ass mac (g3/266) that i might want to use with new-ass OS- will OS9 programs still work with "Rosetta" or whatever it's called?

Most likely. Get in touch with me and maybe I can give you a better answer than that. I'm pretty sure it's only the pro level stuff that can't be handled by Rosetta.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder about this. I don't think I've tried any old OS 9 programs on my Intel iMac. Eric, get in touch with me and let me know which programs. If I have any of them on my ancient G3/233 (upgraded, as I recall, to 333 or 350 at some point), I'll try 'em on my Intel iMac and let you know the result.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:14 pm | Edited by: ChrisG
 
Theresa- I also have a Dell PC Laptop, and a Mac G5 desktop... I don't know the significance in that, other than to say we have the same hardware setup. I got a PC laptop a couple years ago to have access to 3D Studio Max. I now don't really do much in the way of 3D work, so I don't use the PC for much of anything.

I'd been considering a used laptop already and, based on this thread, I'm pretty sure I'll look into a pre-Intel, used Powerbook.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:22 pm
 
i also have some old-ass programs that still work fine on my old-ass mac (g3/266) that i might want to use with new-ass OS- will OS9 programs still work with "Rosetta" or whatever it's called? Tiger? Panther? Jagjaguar?

OK...Time to change my answer, sort of:
From Apple, the simple answer is...NO! http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303137

BUT...Looks like you can run OS 9 on an Intel Mac using SheepSaver:
http://theappleblog.com/2006/07/01/classic-on-intel-macs-courtesy-of-s heepshaver/

http://www.gibix.net/dokuwiki/en:projects:sheepshaver

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060509180914879&lsrc=os xh

Doesn't sound like a perfect solution, but I'm pretty sure it's free.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:23 pm
 
I got a PC laptop

last year because my iBook monitor was on the fritz and this whole laptop cost less than replacing ONLY the mac monitor!

i'm still a windows moron - after a year, its still not intuitive to me at all -- i've always insisted that windows is ugly fake mac and i really hate the coming into the middle that both platforms are doing. i'm sure i'm in the minority.... i don't like the OSX environment and on a trivial level, i think the icons on the menu are butt-ugly....

i am a stick in the mud OLD Mac user w/ stuck in the mud OLD mac preferences
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:24 pm
 
Eric,

I'm curious what old OS 9 software you still use regularly. Are there newer alternatives that you could get free or very cheap? (Example: OpenOffice, etc.)
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:43 pm
 
i am a stick in the mud OLD Mac user w/ stuck in the mud OLD mac preferences


Ahhh, extentions...
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 3:51 pm
 
yow! thanks for the help. i was using final cut pro / after effects /photoshop / realproducer / pro tools / flash / cleaner / peak & other crap, at varying levels/abilities. basically just didn't want to have to upgrade / "find" new stuff if i didn't have to. i'm sure there's lots of free/cheap alternatives to any new stuff that i'd be running, just haven't looked into it all yet.

my solution probably will be to do that stuff on an old computer if i really have to. probably once i get into the mess it'll work itself out- just trying to avoid surprise after making that jump (if i jump). we use pcs at the store & OSX & new macs talk better with these suckers. if i need to do windows stuff i can do it on a pc.

i got spoiled growing up w/apples (pre-mac) and prefer 'em. i should get over it. they're doing it for me by becoming pcs (before it was pcs trying to become macs.) ah well.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 4:00 pm
 
i was using final cut pro / after effects /photoshop / realproducer / pro tools / flash / cleaner / peak & other crap, at varying levels/abilities. basically just didn't want to have to upgrade / "find" new stuff if i didn't have to.


you can run Final Cut Pro on a 266 g3? is it FCP 1???
i bow down to you if you can run all that on a 266.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 4:28 pm
 
I know a documentary/natural history film producer here in New York who shoots straight to mini-dv and edits in Final Cut Pro. His studio is set-up around a G3 bluebox. Right now he's filming in the Congolese jungle.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 4:38 pm
 
fcp 2 doesn't do so good... after effects is all right if you don't do too much!

no airport stuff without OSX, though... am i right?

it's also an old g3/av... rca ins/outs in the back is nice. i got firewire and all that, but for video or cassette dumping, the rcas are nice.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 4:42 pm
 
chris - i've been shooting on mini dv since the format became available and have edited on Final Cut since that became available (back when g3's were the shit), but in the time that's passed since then, and with each version of FCP, i find that the program wants more from the computer than a g3/266 offers. even w/ a processor speed of 1 GB, it doesn't work as fast as i'd like

also - some of the updated firewire drives simply can't be read by the older OS and can't function w/ the slower processors. trust me, i have tried. i wring the life out of every piece of hardware i own

i mean - more power to anyone who can make it work, but my experience is completely different.

i even do a bizarro version of telecine w/ the super 8 film i shoot:
project it on a wall and shoot the projection w/ a dv cam

who's got $150 an hour for a super 8 gate?
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 4:55 pm
 
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 5:29 pm
 
Eric, I work in IT, most specifically on Macs. If you have questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Email me.
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 5:31 pm
 
I'm pretty sure Dan is still using FCP 1 (he was, last we spoke about it). He actually has a real budget for this film. It is being financed by, I think there are a 2 or 3 zoos that are backing it. I know the Houston Zoo was the original financier. When he goes to edit, I bet he upgrades his system. But then, I also know he has the 'If it's not broken, don't fix it' mentality, so...
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 5:51 pm
 
it's also an old g3/av... rca ins/outs in the back is nice.

oh yeah - RCA's!!!!
nothing like that for converting vinly to digital!
Posted: Aug 10, 2006 6:54 pm
 
After I got my G5, I put my old beig-box G3 (w/RCAs) on a cart in my living room, connected the turntable and set it up with Sound Studio.-

http://www.freeverse.com/soundstudio/
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