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Goner Message Board / Memphis / Bike lanes on Madison: Yea or Nay?
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 9:55 am
 
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 10:21 am
 
Reading the comments is eerily familiar. Good luck!
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 12:06 pm
 
I ride my bike. I enjoy the Greenline. I like that other folks are trying to bike more.

I have an open mind for the idea, but for some reason the argument that "I'll shop and spend more on Madison if there's a bike lane" feels kind of hollow. There is nothing from stopping cyclists from doing that today.
And I realize it's a logical fallacy, but it "feels" like that old argument "I'd go to more shows if they would start earlier".
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 12:29 pm
 
We have this conversation in Portland all the time. Usually, increases in customer traffic from cyclists only improves if you do something like install a bike corral - something that makes them stop. I don't know what kind of business are on Madison, but, if I were desiring to increase foot traffic, better public spaces (e.g. public seating, art, sidewalk dining) would seem a better use of funds.

The "cycling" community is a fickle and non-homogenous demographic. I bike regardless of bike lanes. If the goal is to improve bike/car traffic on a particular street, bike lanes could help. If the goal is to improve business traffic, I don't see a useful correlation between bike lanes and stopping to buy something.

Blah. I would go to more shows if I wasn't already drunk by the time the band decided to start, and I wasn't in my pj's.
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 12:44 pm
 
And, I might add, that just because you put in bike lanes and remove lanes for cars, those cars are going to find somewhere else to speed along.
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 1:18 pm
 
I know a business owner on Madison - avid runner and cyclist - who is really opposed to the bike lanes. Has some figures that say it will cut his walk in traffic by 50% or something.
I can't imagine any cyclist actually wanting to ride the Memphis streets with those Memphis drivers. It's damned nuts out there!
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 1:32 pm
 
I can't imagine wanting to park on Madison now. I was on Broad this weekend and thought that angled parking spot + bike lane setup worked pretty well.
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 1:57 pm
 
the idea, but for some reason the argument that "I'll shop and spend more on Madison if there's a bike lane" feels kind of hollow. There is nothing from stopping cyclists from doing that today.

That's not the right way to look at it. Would you shop and spend LESS if there were bike lanes?
Posted: Jun 23, 2011 3:05 pm
 
That's not the right way to look at it. Would you shop and spend LESS if there were bike lanes?

I get your point, but, as a car driver, yes, I might stop driving down the street altogether, which might make me forget the nifty businesses that are there. Perhaps the more smug cyclists would spend less if there weren't bike lanes. Hipsters on brakeless fixies wouldn't be stopping at all, you know.
Posted: Jun 25, 2011 11:07 am
 
I'm all for it!
Posted: Jun 25, 2011 1:56 pm
 
I'm all for bike lanes!
Posted: Jun 25, 2011 2:56 pm
 
I get your point, but, as a car driver, yes, I might stop driving down the street altogether,

I really don't think there would be a huge impact on the amount of traffic using Madison. Even if they made it one lane, one way it wouldn't be as bad as Union.
Posted: Jun 27, 2011 1:45 pm
 
Any business that can survive the trolley line installation debacle can survive bike lanes.
Posted: Jun 27, 2011 5:19 pm
 
I understand the more biking/ less shopping idea completely. Unless you are biking to a restaurant or bar, what, exactly, are you going to buy (that you can't walk and get) that you are going to ride around with? Also, in regards to Madison Ave in particular- that would be a nightmare. There are already WAY to many bad sightlines on that street already that would turn into a literal bloody mess and yes, if there were a bike lane, I would probably drive much less/ go to businesses much less if there were a bike lane. In reality, Memphians need to learn the same rules of the road that other cities have adopted- both cars and bikes. For example, there are no/ few (?) bike lanes in Manhattan and things work out just fine there.
On the other hand, I'm in favor of bike lanes starting earlier and rock shows being in your pjs.
Posted: Jun 27, 2011 6:48 pm
 
All of your cars are the reason it's so damn hot outside and the end is near. People in Memphis can't drive either. Do I really have to risk my life to get around and be healthy? Bike lanes yes. Trolleys nobody rides and buses that smell like piss, no.
Posted: Jun 27, 2011 9:57 pm
 
madison an all bike lane? YES!!!!no trolley no folley.Madison Lanes.and maybe even.an outdoor bowling alley!!!!!!
Posted: Jun 28, 2011 10:31 am | Edited by: Vinyl Ritchie
 
I cant really see bike lanes on madison affecting businesses. The only hang up I see is the dairy. Those trucks need two lanes to turn and cutting down a lane will cause some problems for those trucks to turn in and out of the dairy and it is inevitable that accidents will occur. Perhaps rerouting the bike lane off of Madison onto Tucker or Rembert and then onto Jefferson then down Cooper so there is safe bike access to the movies and Overton Square.
Posted: Jun 28, 2011 11:13 am
 
For example, there are no/ few (?) bike lanes in Manhattan and things work out just fine there.

http://vimeo.com/24572222

I think making people aware that bikes on the streets will make people pay more attention a thus become better drivers in turn. I remember seeing some segment on 20/20 or 60 minutes or something about a dangerous intersection in some Euro town that decided to do away with all traffic signals all together to force people to pay attention and were met with very positive results. I couldn't find a video of that particular segment, but I did find this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html

I'm all for bike lanes. It won't hurt Madison businesses at all. The trolley is/was a failure because the Madison businesses didn't have the foresight to realize what a success it would be for the dying/dead Overton Square. This coupled with the normal Memphis govt. ineptitude was a recipe for disaster. I'm sure people would take the trolley from downtown to Midtown and vice versa if it didn't stop in tranny town by the hardware store not named Home Depot. on the less than bustling and vibrant Cleveland St.
Posted: Jun 28, 2011 11:27 am
 
and maybe even.an outdoor bowling alley!!!!!!

Right on! I am sure that I would use Madison more if there were a bowling alley.

By the way I noticed a lot more bike lanes in NYC on my last trip. It took my by surprise, but they are being painted in there too.

I am big fan of bike lanes on madison. Not only does it make drivers more conscious, it makes bikers feel more comfortable. More comfortable (even if it is an illusion), equals more bikes, and more bikes means that drivers will get more used to them. It stops downward spiral where drivers are surprised or pissed of by bikes.

One lane of madison is useless anyways since the left lanes are frequently blocked by people turning left. A turn lane would be much better.

I would likely stop in at Shangi-la more often since it is on the way, and probably tiptop too because it beckons. But I really would visit restaurants more often, especially lamplighter. Fuck Hueys and Mercury Valet for leading the fight against bike lanes. Mercury valet has their own parking lot anyways. Do they really think that people stop at his store on a whim?
Posted: Jun 28, 2011 11:30 am
 
on the less than bustling and vibrant Cleveland St.

you have not been hanging out on Cleveland. It is always bustling with stumbling real-life zombies not the Hot Topic flashmob phonies.

Euro laissez faire traffic: Oh look, there's bikers, we should all be more careful!

US laissez faire traffic: No rules? I can go as fast as I want? What was that bump? Hey, I gotta hang up.- I'm outta here!
Posted: Jun 29, 2011 10:10 am
 
Roundabouts!!! That's the solution to everything!


By the way, the trolley line would not be a failure if they hadn't abandoned the project less than half-way through. If it actually connected/led to ANYWHERE (not just Overton square), it would be awesome. If I could easily get on it and have it take me where I needed to go while running a dependable schedule, I'd ride the trolley all the fucking time!
Posted: Jul 1, 2011 3:32 pm
 
The trolley stopped there because, theoretically, all the students at UT and the SCO would use it. I always thought it was a terrible idea to spend the money to put it up Madison. But...what Willie wanted, Willie usually got.
I don't bike...so I really have no dog in this fight. I just love Midtown, and would like to see it thrive. How would this effect the "revitalization" of Overton Square?
Posted: Jul 2, 2011 4:18 pm
 
Couldn't the trolley conceivably be expanded further East? That was originally the plan, right? The idea of hopping on the trolley at Overton Square and heading downtown and back is pretty appealing, especially if it ran until late at night.

As an ex-pat, I now see how Memphis often comes to the brink of really great ideas, then abandons them halfway through the process (the trolley is a great example). Some of it is laziness, some of it is lack of $$$, and some of it is a result of poor mentality among Memphis residents. I think it's great that y'all are discussing the bike lanes issue in depth- it shows a strong investment in community, and it makes me feel like the right decision will eventually (hopefully) be made.
Posted: Jul 3, 2011 3:04 pm
 
The trolley was supposed to go down to Cooper, head south to Cooper/Young, and then go all the way go the airport (in theory at least). It was definitely gonna go all the way to Overton Square. Business owners on Madison stopped it after the first phase was completed. It was a bitch driving down Madison while the construction was going on, but it never stopped me from going anywhere I wanted to go on Madison.
Posted: Aug 15, 2011 2:52 pm
 
People in Memphis can't drive either. Do I really have to risk my life to get around and be healthy? Bike lanes yes.

Seriously, if there isn't a Chris Davidson memorial bike lane on Madison... fuck Memphis.
Posted: Aug 15, 2011 3:53 pm
 
word.
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 10:31 am
 
Madison Ave is a 4 lane street, designed for 28,000 cars per day. When only 12,000 cars use a street designed for 28,000, the drivers go way too fast-several were clocked between 65 and 71mph! Madison Ave is a DANGEROUS street for pedestrians and bicyclists. Four businesses on Madison are aggressively fighting the conversion of Madison to 3 lanes with bike lanes. Unfortunately, they are winning the battle politically. Sign the petition at www.madisonbikelanes.com
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 1:30 pm
 
What are the 4 businesses Les?
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 2:14 pm
 
I've heard that a cleaner, mailboxes, etc, the paint store( farrell calhoun, sherwin williams?) and one other. Can't remember.
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 3:29 pm
 
Basically a bunch of places that have parking lots already, and that won't be impacted by bike lanes. Do they really think that someone will choose not to visit their stores because of a bike lane?
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 4:27 pm
 
What are the 4 businesses Les?

Mercury Valet Cleaners
The Mail Center
Madison Auto (gas station at Madison/Belvedere)
Crye Leike Realtors (the folks who bought Anderton's)

There are other businesses opposed, and there may be others aggressively fighting the battle, but the four above are the activists in this battle that I know about. They are very organized and have been very effective.

I've posted a list of businesses that support the "3-lane option" at www.madisonbikelanes.com. Just because a business is not on that list, doesn't mean they are necessarily opposed. Many businesses are neutral.
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 4:38 pm
 
What are the 4 businesses Les?

Mercury Valet Cleaners
The Mail Center
Madison Auto (gas station at Madison/Belvedere)
Crye Leike Realtors (the folks who bought Anderton's)

There are other businesses opposed, and there may be others aggressively fighting the battle, but the four above are the activists in this battle that I know about. They are very organized and have been very effective.

I've posted a list of businesses that support the "3-lane option" at www.madisonbikelanes.com. Just because a business is not on that list, doesn't mean they are necessarily opposed. Many businesses are neutral.


Not Madison Auto, but Midtown Service & Tire. Correct location, wrong name. Sorry.
Posted: Aug 16, 2011 7:33 pm
 
Folks who sign the petition at www.madisonbikelanes.com often leave comments. Petition signer #1142 left this comment: "Paint those stripes I'll bike to your businesses for the next 5 years. I want these places of business that are protesting the change to know that chris davidson spent 15 years spending his money in your establishments. We bikers do have cars too. And the changes actually give you more spaces for customers to park. If you like pleasing your customers perhaps you would at least reconsider your initial stance against these life saving improvements."
Posted: Aug 17, 2011 7:31 am
 
Closed between 2006-2011: Anderton's, Nocturnal, Zinnie's, Yosemite Sam's, Paulette's, Umai. Why are a handful of Madison business owners fighting bike lanes? They say bike lanes will hurt business. Seems it's already hurting. 1,145 people have signed a petition asserting that bike lanes will attract customers to Madison Avenue. www.madisonbikelanes.com
Posted: Aug 17, 2011 9:42 am
 
I thought I had read that Hueys and The Bar-B-Que Shop are also opposed to Bike lanes?? any info
Posted: Aug 20, 2011 1:06 pm | Edited by: Will
 
i think it would definitely get more downtowner and tourist dollars to midtown... but i can see why it wouldn't matter much to the primary opposition businesses (Mercury Valet Cleaners, The Mail Center, Madison Auto, Crye Leike Realtors)
Posted: Aug 24, 2011 6:13 pm
 
Huey's and Bar-B-Que Shop are against the "3-lane option".
Posted: Aug 25, 2011 9:50 am
 
haha BBQ shop has a hueg parking lot in the back. wtf do they care??
Posted: Aug 25, 2011 10:21 am
 
They also wouldn't have any less parking out front.
Posted: Aug 26, 2011 6:30 pm
 
Rally at City Hall next Friday, Sept 2 @ 12:30
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=210491899006216
Posted: Oct 11, 2011 3:52 pm
 
Posted: Oct 11, 2011 3:57 pm
 
well - its happening...
Fuck yeah! Now if we can just get one down Cooper...
Posted: Oct 24, 2011 8:00 pm
 
bbq shop not opposed to bike lanes. Eric (co owner and all around great dude) just felt left out of the process so he wrote that op ed to say so and got completely blasted by a bunch of knee jerk bullshit. I the backlash on both sides to very much resemble the bad for business/you evil business people debate that is going on all over. Demonizing the other side has become pretty much standard for any issue.
Posted: Oct 25, 2011 8:05 pm | Edited by: rayultine
 
spilled milk. still gonna eat at bbq show, still gonna try to utilize those bike lanes. woop woop!
Posted: Oct 25, 2011 10:15 pm
 
I'm all for the bike lanes but was thinking about the old switcheroo lanes on union & how memphis drivers couldn't figure 'em out. that middle lane thing might be a nightmare.
Posted: Oct 25, 2011 10:44 pm
 
There are middle lanes all over this city. At least they don't change.
Posted: Oct 26, 2011 2:48 pm
 
rode my bike down Madison and ate the f&%$ outta some BBQ shop yesterday
Posted: Oct 27, 2011 9:59 am
 
thinking about the old switcheroo lanes on union & how memphis drivers couldn't figure 'em out.

Memphis drivers don't know how to use straight driving lanes. Memphis walkers don't know how to use sidewalks. What's up with walking right in the middle of the goddamn street?
In fact, I saw a biker on Chelsea the other night riding his bike in the driving lane three feet away from a bicycle lane.
I have been supporting the idea of bike lanes in general, but the more I think about it, it probably won't make a lot of difference. People in Memphis are gonna walk, ride, and drive wherever the fuck they want to and look at you like you're a fool if you even think they might get out of your way just because you have the right of way.
Posted: Nov 14, 2011 6:37 pm
 
Seen some interesting and frustrating things since the lanes were painted...
-People still drive in the parking/bike lane all day long! Once they get to Overton Square it's fun to watch them hit their brakes and have to wait for everyone else to pass.
-Saw a bulldog on a bike! Back paws in the bikers lap, front paws on the handle bars. Would be a risky ride without legit lanes.
-Saw a driver honk and cuss like a mad man for a biker to get out of his way while riding in the bike lane.
-Bike lanes = skateboard lanes
-Watching bikes pass cars is satisfying.
If anything there is more legit parking for businesses on Madison than ever before. Park right in front of Huey's and get your blues burger to go.
THERE STILL AREN'T ANY SYMBOLS INDICATING THAT THOSE NEW "SKINNY" LANES ARE INDEED BIKE AND PARKING LANES. Which scares me cause ignorance + road rage = accidents
Posted: Nov 14, 2011 10:39 pm | Edited by: Jack Stands
 
-People still drive in the parking/bike lane all day long!

Cars passing other cars using the bike lanes. At night, too, and there are plenty of riders.
Still see kids riding in the middle of madison, but hopefully they'll get the idea soon.

If anything there is more legit parking for businesses on Madison than ever before. Park right in front of Huey's and get your blues burger to go.

True, and they still haven't removed all the No Parking signs, though I've seen a couple painted over. I can park in front of the new place!

THERE STILL AREN'T ANY SYMBOLS INDICATING THAT THOSE NEW "SKINNY" LANES ARE INDEED BIKE AND PARKING LANES. Which scares me cause ignorance + road rage = accidents
Hopefully, all in good time. I was really freaked out for a little while before they put the crossing stoplights on the Greenline, because I just knew someone would get hit eventually, but the traffic on Graham now seems to be used to the idea.
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