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Goner Message Board / Memphis / Craig Brews up...I can't write headlines
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Posted: Jul 10, 2008 1:22 am | Edited by: Wire
 
Do you have that Midtown Look?

Midtown to star in online drama

Shot in Memphis, shown 'round the world.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 1:57 am
 
didn't see it, but karen and allie are in it as well
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 2:00 am
 
peepstemple
Member Posted: Sep 19, 2006, 7:56 am | Edited by: peepstemple Quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
average gas price in 1992 about $1.30
average price for punk rock show $5.00


average gas price in 2006 about $$2.60
average price for punk rock show $5.00
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 2:36 am
 
Casting calls for extras with "that Midtown look" will be from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Monday through July 18 at Otherlands, 641 S. Cooper.

Shouldn't this read 9PM to 3AM at the Pumping Station?
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 4:51 am
 
Why does this uncomfortably bring to mind "Reality Bites"?

"people who are in each other's bands and in each other's beds."

well, at least the concept is based in reality.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 9:32 am
 
Oh Christ.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 11:27 am
 
Hope it's as good as Austin Stories on MTV. That shit was funny.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 12:27 pm
 
He's had this concept bouncing around in various forms for a few years. I think it could be really cool if he can pull it off. And it's all locals, too. That's at a time when the local movie scene has been struggling. He's getting people paid and helping them build experience. And he's going to exploit the drunken soap opera that is, and always has been, the Midtown rock scene.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 12:34 pm
 
I just would prefer this if it were totally camped up and mocked beyond belief a la Paradise Hotel Season One.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 2:44 pm
 
He's had this concept bouncing around in various forms for a few years. I think it could be really cool if he can pull it off. And it's all locals, too.

there is no way any show that stars Muck Sticky can be cool...this is dumb with a capital B.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:01 pm
 
I just hope some people can get some $$ out of it but my initial thought was...hooooo boy.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:05 pm
 
Although I am all for giving the film industry here jobs and experience and such, and I love some of the people involvedthis is dumb with a capital B.

And to think, the powers that be thought that The First 48 portrayed Memphis in a bad light.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:18 pm
 
this is dumb with a capital B

You mean like this?
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:45 pm
 
Oh, come on. Talk about self-hating Memphians. Somebody finally gets their shit together enough to make a fucking movie about the very scene that everybody on this fucking board is involved in, and you can't do anything but fucking bitch about it? Not only have you not SEEN it yet, it hasn't even been FILMED yet, and you're hating on it? What about Brewer's work suggests to you that it won't be well-written and well-acted? Maybe that Best Actor nomination for Terrance Howard? Maybe the actual performance he pulled out of Justin fucking Timberlake in Black Snake Moan? Maybe Samuel Jackson's performance in that same movie, which he called the best of his career? Y'all can't suck Harlan's dick hard enough. Well, he's in it. So's Jack. What the fuck do you want? Jesus fucking Christ, give it a chance before you start trying to score fucking hip points off of hating it.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:55 pm | Edited by: Mark Rochambeaux
 
Since it's supposed to be about the songwriting process, I almost had the idea that it could be a "Yacht Rock" type thing.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 3:56 pm
 
I'd just like to state for the record that my Ophelia Ford joke in no way reflects my feelings about this upcoming film. Carry on.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 4:11 pm
 
Y'all can't suck Harlan's dick hard enough. Well, he's in it. So's Jack. What the fuck do you want? Jesus fucking Christ, give it a chance before you start trying to score fucking hip points off of hating it.

I will never score hip points...never ever. And, I'm not being ironically hip by claiming to be unhip. I said I loved some of the people in it...Jack, Harlan, Amy, Cody, Bomar, (sometimes) JMM, etc. I'm fully into the work and exposure it can create for these folks. Totally into that aspect of it.
I LOVED Hustle and Flow...BSM not so much because it seemed like a really weird caricature of the south. And it was obvious...who doesn't want to see Christina Ricci tied to a radiator? I don't think it was Samuel Jackson's best performance of his career.

I've alienated myself "in the scene" with my preferences in film and art in Memphis, and I ought to keep my mouth shut about this. But the first thing I flashed on when I read the article about this was Reality Bites. A movie about home movies about "real" people. I know this is kind of different because there are actually REAL people in it. And, real people that I actually know and respect.

I have nothing but mad respect about what Craig Brewer has been able to do with filmmaking in Memphis.
Still...it just irks me that "the Midtown scene" is being portrayed as to highlight the artists of our community in a fun, sexy new way, and on our own terms," . What's the Midtown scene? I mean really. What is that?
I've always said "Midtown is like a small town, and as incestuous as hell."
Do I really want that highlighted as indicative of the music scene here? The music scene kicks ass now, and has in different ways since the 70s.
I've been involved peripherally since then. But, do I want it portrayed in a "reality bites" kind of way? I don't know.

You're right, and I'll reserve judgement. But, I will not be happy if it turns into some "Midtown Memphis MTV Real World" type of thing. These are real people here, hopping into real beds, and not some MTV type "sexy" representation of such.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 4:22 pm
 
"Midtown Memphis MTV Real World"

That was my first reaction...let's hope it does not and it brings $$ to the good people working on it.

I'm hoping (and trusting) the people involved will not let it spin into some typical MTV titillation bullshit.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 4:44 pm
 
Oh, come on. Talk about self-hating Memphians. Somebody finally gets their shit together enough to make a fucking movie about the very scene that everybody on this fucking board is involved in, and you can't do anything but fucking bitch about it?

Did you forget where you were? People on here love to bitch and bitch about something before it ever gets off the ground. Never even try and give it a chance. It's the memphis way. Pretty sad.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 4:49 pm
 
Y'all can't suck Harlan's dick hard enough.

The fuck this has to do with anything? Wow, there are fans of a Goner Recording artist on the Goner Board, what are the odds? Harlan's great...best songwriter in town... good for him he is getting paid for this.

Unfortunately, the people who will be watching this, will not be getting paid...perhaps we will be entertained, perhaps we wont. But why is Craig entitled to praise just because he makes movies about Memphis?
Craig Brewer is a fucking movie director, who releases movies for the public to see...we, the public have every right to say his movies suck, and have every right to be apprehensive about this. We have the right to an opinion of what we think. A LOT of people think Craig Brewer's movies suck, A LOT of people think his vision of Memphis is racist, misogynist, and full of carpetbagger bullshit.
Sorry, a dirty-fingernail drama about the midtown Memphis music scene starring Muck Sticky sounds fucking awful.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 5:13 pm
 
and you can't do anything but fucking bitch about it? Not only have you not SEEN it yet, it hasn't even been FILMED yet, and you're hating on it?

I would suggest that Craig Brewer reads the criticism about the project and takes it well to heart. Just because he's made some (a bunch of?) money on movies about Memphis (and it's surroundings) doesn't mean some people (life long Memphians) won't take it as exploitation. As I did about BSM. Of course, if he's obviously into exploitation movies I guess that's a different story. Obvious is okay if it's obvious, and not disguised as a true representation of "the south" or the Midtown Memphis music scene. The MTV thing just makes me nervous. There are brilliant, prolific, and very serious musicians involved in making music here now. Jumping into each other's beds is certainly a part of it, but not exactly something I want to see in "mini movies" online. And, it's not sexy...mostly it's heartbreak.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 5:49 pm
 
Let me make sure I've got this straight: On the one side, the sainted Halran, and Founding Father Jack, and The Holy Mother Alicia. On the other side, Muck Sticky, who you hate as is your right, but who has an audience both inside and outside of Memphis. So in an ensemble cast, Muck automatically outweighs the other three. Even though you have no idea how much screen time anyone gets, or whether or not Muck or Harlan or Jack can even act. Because it hasn't been made yet. Classy.

But why is Craig entitled to praise just because he makes movies about Memphis?

Craig's not entitled to praise just because he's Craig, but why are you entitled to pass judgment on something you haven't seen yet, that you can't even have seen because it hasn't even been made yet? Are you a fucking mind reader? Can you see into the fucking future?

Once it's done and out, watch the damn thing and if you don't like it, hate on it all you want. Hell, it might end up sucking. I don't know, because I haven't seen it yet.

A LOT of people think his vision of Memphis is racist, misogynist, and full of carpetbagger bullshit.

A LOT of people are wrong.

But the first thing I flashed on when I read the article about this was Reality Bites.

"Midtown Memphis MTV Real World"

It's not like that at all. From what I've heard, it's more like the kind of movies that Morgan Fox, Andrew Nininger and the Media Co-Op folks have been doing for years, which has sort of been folded into the whole mumblecore/American DIY scene. Here's what Chris Herrington wrote about it today, which I think explains it a little better.

I hate the term "mumblecore", btw.

What's the Midtown scene? I mean really. What is that?

The scene that revolves around the garage/punk/art rock that has thrived in Midtown clubs since...oh hell, Elvis? Since Big Star, anyway, coming into its own after the Sex Pistols played here and The Well"and later The Antenna"started booking punk bands. The scene that this very board is devoted to. You know, that scene. Yes, it's incestuous and always has been. So was the 1977 New York punk scene. That's the way music scenes are. That's one of the things that make them interesting.

I've alienated myself "in the scene" with my preferences in film and art in Memphis, and I ought to keep my mouth shut about this.

Don't worry about it. Everyone's just itching for a reason to alienate everyone else. It's as much about who is excluded as it is about who is included. The circle gets smaller and smaller until eventually it's just two people who can't stand each other but who are too afraid to admit it because they might be the next one voted off the island. Better to like what you like and not apologize for it. Argue it, defend it, be open to changing your mind, but don't apologize for it. And for fuck's sake, don't write something off before it's even been created just because of a soundbite you read in the paper.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 6:12 pm
 
i can't wait til this thread makes the casting call.

that was funny, john paul.

but seriously, wait to see it before you dog it. otherwise, the opinion is just ignorant. don't be ignorant. about anything.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 6:14 pm | Edited by: BullyRook
 
I hope every episode has Miss Linda yelling, "Play the Ramones!!" at least once. I'll kick in $5 for a fancy new wig to make him look real good for the camera.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 6:25 pm
 
Well, the paper is the only information that's been put out there about it. Or, the only thing I know about it because I am definitely unhip, and have not heard anything else about it. I don't get out much anymore.

It's as much about who is excluded as it is about who is included.
What does this mean? I'm quite sure that I won't be included. Not that I want to, or don't want to. I am certainly open to changing my mind, as I stated before.

So in an ensemble cast, Muck automatically outweighs the other three.
As someone who goes to shows, I find this really hard to believe. And, if this is the spin, how real is it?
It is a comedy? In that case, I'm sure Muck automatically outweighs the other three.

I really like you, col bat guano...and I know how much you've done for Memphis and the arts in Memphis. I also know how much Craig Brewer has done for "the arts" in Memphis. It's just a little disconcerting to have Craig aligned with MTV, as well as a lot of my favorite musicians and filmmakers aligned with something that is purported as a "sexy" look at the Midtown Memphis scene. I am TOTALLY behind Memphis music (and filmmaking) in the last twenty years. What is that casting call all about? I mean, FUCK, I'm all about putting Memphis out there, but a casting call for "Midtown types" makes me very suspicious. I've lived in Midtown for twenty five plus years. I've been married and divorced to a few musicians. It's not totally off the wall for life long music Midtown Memphians to be suspicious of the project.

Please let Craig know that there are people (at least one) out there who are concerned that this will be a bad MTV (Real World lately) project. I am totally into "wait and see", but I don't want the "Memphis scene" (which includes a hell of a lot of great music now) denigrated into some kind of MTV "who sleeps with who".

That's all.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 6:58 pm
 
there is no way anyone but Craig are getting paid for this . If they do it's fucking chump change .
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:14 pm | Edited by: Jack Stands
 
I hope they have a scene with Ross, working as a Drum Instructor, yelling at a 12 year old "What are you? Fucking stupid? Your mom couldn't give me enough pussy to teach you!" at the Guitar Center in Cordova in one of the "sound-proof rooms".

I'm available for writing credits.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:19 pm
 
There really is so much potential for where this could go, just hope they do it right. I know I couldn't.

And Jay's $5.00 quote from way above is what I think of when I see or hear "$5.00 Cover". That's why I put it there.

If anyone needs me, I'll be on Cleveland, looking to "spoon".
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:24 pm
 
Other interests:
I like it when you google "Dear Penthouse Forum, You'are not going to believe this", Goner board comes up as #7.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:47 pm
 
there is no way anyone but Craig are getting paid for this . If they do it's fucking chump change .


there could be some truth to this but, i really have no way of knowing. at the very least, i imagine most of the artists involved will be writing a fair amount of music for it - which could potentially turn into $$$ down the line in the form of exposure, royalties, etc. While i can't necessarily speak to the acting ability of most of those involved, i do have a good bit of faith in (most) of the artists songwriting/ performance chops and this exposure SHOULD be a good thing. We'll see.

as for mr. Brewer, his work has a hit-to-miss ratio of about 50/50 in my humble opinion. ultimately though, i respect his enthusiasm, his ability to get shit done, and willingness to work with/cultivate local talent and aspirations.

i think the only thing that confuses me is "that midtown look"... izzat code for "unemployable"?
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:56 pm
 
ultimately though, i respect his enthusiasm, his ability to get shit done, and willingness to work with/cultivate local talent and aspirations.

I totally concur. There ain't no arguing about the fact that he loves Memphis, and translate this into dollars for Memphis and Memphis artists.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 7:59 pm
 
"that midtown look"... izzat code for "unemployable"?

it might become calvin klein's next advertising look....
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 8:02 pm
 
also worth noting: I will be holding *cough* auditions for ladies with "that midtown look" for a um, webisode at my house daily. pls to shave your pits, otherwise, holla!


yes, i am druunk.
Posted: Jul 10, 2008 8:17 pm
 
yes, i am druunk.

so am I!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 10:19 am
 
I really like you, col bat guano...and I know how much you've done for Memphis and the arts in Memphis. I also know how much Craig Brewer has done for "the arts" in Memphis. It's just a little disconcerting to have Craig aligned with MTV, as well as a lot of my favorite musicians and filmmakers aligned with something that is purported as a "sexy" look at the Midtown Memphis scene.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. (Although I'm not sure what I've "done for the arts in Memphis" has ever actually done anybody any good, up to and including myself!) I apologize if I came off as unduly harsh in my earlier posts. And I agree that the concept sounds a little squirrelly when combined with the letters "MTV". But Hustle and Flow went through MTV, too. Just give it a chance is all I'm saying.

there is no way anyone but Craig are getting paid for this . If they do it's fucking chump change .

Nope. People are getting paid. Sure, they're American dollars, but they still spend for now. Are they getting rich? No (although I'm not privy to anybody's pay rate). But they're getting paid to practice their art, which, as you know, is a rarity in this town. And none of this had to happen. He could have brought in well-known (or at least B- or C-list) actors from LA to do this thing and that would have guaranteed a certain level of viewership, at least initially. But he didn't do that. He got locals with talent who don't really have any other opportunities like this knocking at their doors.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 10:47 am
 
Oh, come on. Talk about self-hating Memphians. Somebody finally gets their shit together enough to make a fucking movie about the very scene that everybody on this fucking board is involved in, and you can't do anything but fucking bitch about it? Not only have you not SEEN it yet, it hasn't even been FILMED yet, and you're hating on it? ... Jesus fucking Christ, give it a chance before you start trying to score fucking hip points off of hating it.
AMEN to that. Good luck to everyone involved!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 10:54 am
 
Yeah, I mean, seriously. How could anyone cast doubt on the artistic value and seriousness of this project.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=art8iIJ199A&feature=related
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 11:15 am
 
[Yeah, I mean, seriously. How could anyone cast doubt on the artistic value and seriousness of this project.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=art8iIJ199A&feature=related


Boy...I was gonna say I want that 2 minutes and 27 seconds of my life back but all I can say is...I want that 37 seconds back...couldn't make it through the whole thing.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 11:39 am
 
BOMAR!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 12:24 pm | Edited by: tigergreen
 
Yeah, I mean, seriously. How could anyone cast doubt on the artistic value and seriousness of this project.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=art8iIJ199A&feature=related


like it or not, he's got an audience, and it's not just a local one so although i don't care to EVER see that video again, it makes sense for him to be involved....

and since when has MTV been the gold standard for "artistic value & seriousness"?!?!?

holy hell, no one has even mentioned that al kapone's in it - i'd rather watch him than the majority of the artists that are involved!

it's called "reaching a broad audience"...midtown is more than harlan & amy, folks...it even includes *gasp* artists you might not like.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 1:15 pm
 
Views: 198,597
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 2:50 pm
 
at the very least, i imagine most of the artists involved will be writing a fair amount of music for it - which could potentially turn into $$$ down the line in the form of exposure, royalties, etc.


as someone who has done music for Real World and Bands on the Run, I can tell you MTV does not pay one dime for music in their productions...their attitude is, "if you dont do it, someone else will". You get in the credits that roll by at 4000 miles an hour or get shrunk down as the teaser for their next show comes on. Not worth the effort.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:28 pm | Edited by: street
 
You get in the credits that roll by at 4000 miles an hour or get shrunk down as the teaser for their next show comes on. Not worth the effort.

Probably as good a place as any to remind everybody that this is NOT a traditional MTV broadcast -- this is a internet project. "New Media". YouTube clips on steroids. The traditional rules and expectations of a Brewer feature film or a MTV "reality" series do not necessarily apply here.

From Herrington's article in the Flyer:

A planned series of 15 inter-linked short films (roughly eight minutes each) involving people and places in the Midtown Memphis music scene, $5 Cover will be seen online and via other new media outlets.... Brewer now envisions an interactive, multimedia product that will help Memphis culture promote itself to the world....

The series of partly scripted, interconnected “webisodes” will each focus on a local musician playing a slightly fictionalized version of themselves, with each installment also built around a particular song by that artist... The 15 episodes will all occur within the same semi-fictional world, with characters overlapping and with a few non-musician local actors playing entirely fictional characters...

Ultimately, Brewer sees the $5 Cover films as an entry point for a broader Memphis music/culture experience, with links, downloads, and an interactive city map. He also has hopes it could become a template for a new franchise -- sort of a music-centered, online answer to the MTV staple The Real World -- which could feature other filmmakers presiding over $5 Cover projects in their own cities, with Brewer as executive producer.


So if this thing proves popular, it could easily go viral a la YouTube or MySpace, and it could indeed provide some substantial exposure to the musicians involved. And since each webisode is apparently built around a particular song, as long as MTV provides a simple link to download that song on iTunes/Amazon/etc, I could see some very tangible benefits to being a musician in this project. It sounds much better than just winding up in the end credits of Real World. Provided people watch the damn thing, of course.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:31 pm
 
Yes, exactly, 198,597 views. That's why I posted that.

You see, soon, the quality of all art, and human value itself, will be judged on the basis of YouTube viewing numbers.

But hold up, Muck...you just got surpassed with 4,050,876 views.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQzUsTFqtW0

Someone call MTV. I smell a series here.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:36 pm
 
Someone call MTV. I smell a series here.

Well, if they can base a series off of the Geico cavemen, why not?
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:44 pm
 
bob mehr you still owe me a slow dance. see ya tonight at tony joe. maybe he'll play little green apples or something we can snuggle to. go lakers.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:45 pm
 
hey yall stop makin fun of my boyfriend Mucksticky!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 3:49 pm
 
Well, if we're spitballing ideas for potential MTV shows. How about this: a true crime/rock 'n' roll reality show based around this guy.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=xioCGmZVoqw


Muck Sticky can guest star in the first episode as a wealthy novelty rapper who gets killed in his opulent East Memphis mansion (a home he purchased with You Tube views, of course) where the police find the words "Thingy Thing" scrawled in blood and feces on the walls.

Can I get someone at Viacom to greenlight that shit or what?
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 4:35 pm
 
Just show (SHOW!) lots of Clare, Amy and Valerie, and the show will do fine!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 5:05 pm
 
Where's my $100?
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 5:33 pm
 
Can I get someone at Viacom to greenlight that shit or what?

if it was 10 years ago, i could have done it. and you know, bob, for you --- anything!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 5:54 pm
 
you know, bob, for you --- anything!

Watch it Bob and TK, someone might ask y'all to star in your own Midtown webisode!
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 6:33 pm
 
as someone who has done music for Real World and Bands on the Run, I can tell you MTV does not pay one dime for music in their productions...their attitude is, "if you dont do it, someone else will". You get in the credits that roll by at 4000 miles an hour or get shrunk down as the teaser for their next show comes on. Not worth the effort.
Not true I got paid ok for the use of a song in a episode of human giant . But for web shit you will get little or nothing .
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 6:55 pm
 
as someone who has done music for Real World and Bands on the Run, I can tell you MTV does not pay one dime for music in their productions...their attitude is, "if you dont do it, someone else will".


as someone who produced a shit ton of programs for MTV Networks, i can tell you that you are only partially right and Jay is more right

if your music is used, you will be asked to sign off and waive sync license fees BUT if you say no, and they want to use your music, they will pay you.

on the other hand, if that production has no budget, they will find someone who WILL sign off - that's true.

MTV also has a deal w/ the labels that was signed at the dawn of the MTV era whereby the music videos could be used in whole or in part, which MTV construes as meaning - not just excerpting the videos, but stripping the music from the picture... so if there's a song for which the artist made a video, that song is used for free. big gaffe but then again, in 1981, no one could foresee the future of the biz or of MTV - so this tidbit of MTV's reputation does deservedly precede it.

however

in all the non fiction programs i produced for the MTVNetworks, i ALWAYS paid for music rights. in fact, i paid $11,000 in sync fees for the use of "maggie may" alone! (because there are 3 publishers all with different power relationships w/ the rights & clearances dept...)

none of this is to defend MTV; i probably hate them more than anyone because i worked there for a long time and it was the job from hell. i'm just telling you how it is from their side
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 7:39 pm
 
This sounds like a lot more exposure for these artists than the usual background-music on "Real World" or whatever. Sounds more like they'll actually perform the songs on the show, right?

Also, don't know how it is with MTV, but as a newspaper guy, I can tell you that regardless of the audience, it's very hard to sell ads for Web stuff, so that could impact how much of a budget is out there ...
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 7:59 pm
 
what i wanna know is why there is a casting call for live audiences as opposed to just filming a show?? i mean, i have no opinion either way, but i was curious. is it because of equipment or set stuff or something?? i kind of see it as like, seeing seth cohen and crew goin to a death cab for cutie or god forbid a Modest Mouse show on the O.C. reruns on the soap network or something.

yes fags. i watch the O.C. reruns. carry on.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 9:08 pm
 
But hold up, Muck...you just got surpassed with 4,050,876 views.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQzUsTFqtW0

Someone call MTV. I smell a series here.



Too late jackass!

URL
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 11:03 pm
 
This initiative will take some sort of form. This form could generate a result of great exposure and interest in the city. We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on, so long as people value its potential and express initiative together for that aim. I.E.: Go to the events, do your thing, rock the fuck out. Do not be afraid, this is an opportunity, a challenge. This is not a threat.
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 11:14 pm
 
craig brewer was at goner tonight for suzy hendrix's art show! Craig rules!

and... Donahue was there! and, and... tons of great people including tim prudhomme!


(you know who was in last week? the royal furniture girl. it's true.)
Posted: Jul 11, 2008 11:18 pm
 
the royal furniture girl. it's true.)

How them thangs look up close?
Posted: Jul 12, 2008 9:53 am
 
This initiative will take some sort of form. This form could generate a result of great exposure and interest in the city. We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on, so long as people value its potential and express initiative together for that aim. I.E.: Go to the events, do your thing, rock the fuck out. Do not be afraid, this is an opportunity, a challenge. This is not a threat.


THAT'S what i like to hear.
Posted: Jul 12, 2008 12:17 pm
 
I've got music going on. We've got some really great stuff here, and no other scene is as visceral a rock circus as Memphis. Let's find out where the shit's happenin and roll up on the scene hardcore, get some unity flowing through mutual Myspace banners and stuff.

Let's face it: If you can rock a Memphis crowd, you can rock ANYBODY.
Posted: Jul 12, 2008 1:22 pm
 
not if you keep up with this goddamn up with people jazz.
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 9:19 am
 
We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,

That's my worst fucking nightmare! That's the worst case scenario that most of the people on here are bitching about I believe.
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 11:07 am
 
Let's face it: If you can rock a Memphis crowd, you can rock ANYBODY.


that's the fuckin truth
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 11:47 am
 
Let's face it: If you can rock a Memphis crowd, you can rock ANYBODY.


this is not something to brag about .
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 11:48 am
 
We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 2:25 pm
 
I hope every episode has Miss Linda yelling, "Play the Ramones!!" at least once. I'll kick in $5 for a fancy new wig to make him look real good for the camera.

That sounds like there might be 2, or 3 miss lindas....(hint,hint)!


RAMONES
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 2:34 pm | Edited by: miss linda
 
Nothing is more annoying to me than someone who claims to like R-N-R, but puts down the RAMONES.

I scream at bands because they're annoying ME!

Any band worth it's salt could just belt out a ramones tune at the drop of a hat,and if they can't, they deserve to be belittled for their bad taste and LAZINESS!!!!!!!


Blitzkrieg Bop don't count, and any band that covers that song is just as stupid as the rest of the "others".
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 2:41 pm
 
I'll watch it just to see Memphis' version of Spencer Pratt. It's cool when somebody wants to point a magnifying glass at your ecosystem, even if they get it all wrong and have crappy intentions. Enjoy the attention while it lasts.
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 2:58 pm
 
Getiing kicked out of ANYTHING gives me an erection, and a sense of accomplishment.
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 3:15 pm
 
years of listening to Alicja Trout moaning about unacceptance and bad mouthing Memphis?=tiresome and baby-like. Sitting thru three Craig Brewer features and hoping for the best?=excruciating and empty. 5$ Cover?=fucking priceless. i can't wait.Hey, everybody, Oil in Memphis!
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 3:50 pm
 
...and just for the sake of argument, when was the last time any of you glass half full optimists referred to MTV for anything other than 'I'm glad it's not me' self-affirming ridicule? 5$ cover is about to shake things up? please.
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 5:37 pm
 
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad

ZING!!!
Posted: Jul 13, 2008 5:53 pm
 
all I needed to hear was "muck sticky","MTV", and "midtown look"

shit's lame I don't care if Jesus Christ, Abraham Lincoln, and batman are in it together.

midtown on mtv.com= not cool
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 8:05 am
 
We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad


I guess that would make you Kurt. I've got a shotgun if you'd like to borrow it.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 8:05 am
 
Let's face it: If you can rock a Memphis crowd, you can rock ANYBODY.


this is not something to brag about .



agreed. much agreed.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 8:13 am
 
I guess that would make you Kurt. I've got a shotgun if you'd like to borrow it.

Awesome
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 8:17 am
 
POTD so far
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 2:08 pm
 
Against my better judgment, I'd like to comment on a few comments:

And he's going to exploit the drunken soap opera that is, and always has been, the Midtown rock scene.

Every mid-sized city has one of these. We are certainly NOT unique in this aspect.

Views: 198,597

Views by people making fun of it or asking "is this a fucking joke?" - 198,500

Let's face it: If you can rock a Memphis crowd, you can rock ANYBODY.

this is not something to brag about .


I must concur here. You know what else rocks a Memphis audience? Knowing someone in the band. The band being from Memphis. The band drawing a lot of the opposite sex. Fucking someone in the band. I've seen, and still see, Memphis bands that a. have someone from another well-respected band, past or present b. couldn't write a memorable song if their lives depended on it c. play easy-to-swallow mediocrity d. rock about as hard an an over-the-jeans handjob, or e. ALL OF THE ABOVE Guess what....throngs of this "Memphis audience" go absolutely ape-shit over it.

Implying that the Memphis rock scene audience is some barometer by which discerning taste should be measured or some gauntlet to be run or litmus test to prove creative mettle is.....fucking ridiculous. Memphis' musical history, from sixty (or more) years ago all the way up to Goner/Shangri-La/other contemporary entities, is something that I am incredibly proud of/elated to have been involved in via different capacities. That said, saying that it's synonymous with a big group of hard-to-please tastemakers is....I shall say again....fucking ridiculous.

I am not saying that this Memphis rock scene audience has all-around poor taste, please do not read that into this, but it isn't some mythical board of rock directors passing the end-all-be-all approval on artists. Actually, the Memphis rock scene audience (to note: NOT EVERYONE) is guilty of an especially unsavory habit, and that is the problem of being an extremely provincial one with a tiny frame of reference re: music that is not from Memphis/non-Memphis history and a prevailing "If it's from Memphis, I like it, and it must be good" or "It needs to be supported simply because it's from Memphis" attitude. No, hailing from Memphis does not automatically make something worthy of attention. If it's from Memphis and it sucks, it sucks, and does not need to be supported. And because there are Memphis bands/fans that have no sense of history (outside of Memphis) or they have the aforementioned tiny frame of reference (barring Memphis-related subjects), it breeds this misconception that the music created by these artists is original or fresh when that couldn't be farther from the truth. They don't realize that there are a gazillion bands that do what they do (sometimes better) all over the country/world, that a gazillion bands did it (sometimes better) 5 - 15 years prior, and on a smaller scale, don't realize that there is a factory in, say, Williamsburg Brooklyn or some other over-saturated music scene (Austin?) that spits out nine similar ventures each hour. I'm not advocating the knowledge of this unless an artist believes, or their fans believe, that what they are doing is highly original or unique, especially if they have an attitude about it. I just can't deal with that. And if an artist writes great songs, I will like it no matter what the source material happens to be.

We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad

I guess that would make you Kurt. I've got a shotgun if you'd like to borrow it.


Can I be the Memphis marriage of, let's see, a really crappy Steven Jesse Bernstein and Coffin Break? Or maybe Seaweed. How about Gruntruck? That doesn't make any sense.

When I show out-of-town friends a Muck Sticky video, it takes some effort to convince them it's not a prank. I do not want the rest of the country to associate Memphis with a comedy rapper and his videos that look as if a circa-1993 rave, a J. Mascis look-alike convention, a Burning Man festival, and Kid Rock's "Who's Going To Be My Next Human Retard/Midget/Freak show Sidekick?" contest vomited all over someone's trash-strewn backyard. And the music? The rapping? Puhleeze. I hope the hell that rinky-dink, I-can-do-what-I-wanna-do, diggity-dank sub-literate halfwit nonsense is never embraced by some Jello Biafra-type as "outsider genius".....ugh. Muck Sticky has a national and local draw because the majority of the public has bad taste.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 2:11 pm
 
I meant "Stephen Jesse Bernstein" - whoops...
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 2:56 pm | Edited by: hitone
 
We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad

I guess that would make you Kurt. I've got a shotgun if you'd like to borrow it.

Can I be the Memphis marriage of, let's see, a really crappy Steven Jesse Bernstein and Coffin Break? Or maybe Seaweed. How about Gruntruck? That doesn't make any sense.



I love this game! So that makes Muck Sticky Malfunkshun, right? Then surely that must mean Taco and The Mofo's are Green Apple Quick Step.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 2:59 pm
 
When I show out-of-town friends a Muck Sticky video, it takes some effort to convince them it's not a prank.

Try in-town friends as well.

Then I realized these idiots are just the Deadeye Dick of 2008.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 4:08 pm
 
EARLES!
hey... it was great running into you the other day


ok - back to the subject at hand....
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 4:32 pm
 
I was told I didn't have "that Midtown Look" even after I showed them my genital warts. I really thought my years in the scene were finally going to pay off.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 4:41 pm
 
I would add that while "rocking" a Memphis crowd may not be such a huge achivement or indicator of anything, if you're a touring band that can actually draw in Memphis, you can pretty much draw anywhere. I'm guessing Dan at Hi Tone could vouch for that. In terms of showing up for gigs, Memphis audiences are pretty fickle -- up there with the toughest cities I've seen anywhere.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 4:53 pm
 
Anybody who's ever lived in Nashville would never complain about Memphis crowds.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 5:01 pm
 
Anybody who's ever lived in Nashville would never complain about Memphis crowds.


Right, or if you'd lived in Phoenix.

The solution to poor concert attendence? Simple. Book only Vern Gosdin tribute acts:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9SN80N6FYy8
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 5:02 pm
 
The solution to poor concert attendence? Simple. Book only Vern Gosdin tribute acts

You're a wise man, Bob Mehr.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 5:05 pm
 
I concur about the comments regarding the Memphis scene's frame of reference.

"If you can draw here, you can draw anywhere" is the accurate measure.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 5:22 pm
 
Anybody who's ever lived in Nashville would never complain about Memphis crowds.

Never lived there, but have been to plenty of shows there since the 80's and truer words were never spoken. Talk about uptight and reserved AND tiny! At least Memphians seem to liquor up enough to make things interesting from time to time.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 8:53 pm
 
Every mid-sized city has one of these. We are certainly NOT unique in this aspect.

So? Who said we were? Music scenes follow similar patterns everywhere. Hopefully that means people will be able to relate to it all over the country. Because in order for it to be successful people outside the Memphis area will have to watch it. Not that we would watch it if it was good anyway, because we're all provincial hayseeds with no taste.

Views by people making fun of it or asking "is this a fucking joke?" - 198,500...

When I show out-of-town friends a Muck Sticky video...

You must have a lot of friends.
Posted: Jul 14, 2008 10:07 pm
 
Anybody who's ever lived in Nashville would never complain about Memphis crowds.

you could expand that to "anybody who's ever lived in an 'industry' town would never complain about Memphis crowds" I am in Nashville - its just like LA and NYC... the audience is all about standing in the back and talking to their friends.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 2:28 am
 
We could get a Seattle 2.0 thing going on,
Awe com on Scott you could be Tad

I guess that would make you Kurt. I've got a shotgun if you'd like to borrow it.

wow haven't heard this one before Scott
interview numbers 615 to ask this
It seems like people are really pegging you as the guy who can take underground music and make it a major label thing. Like you will be the next Kurt Cobain. Is that a lot of pressure on you?

try again buddy !
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 4:49 am
 
I just would prefer this if it were totally camped up and mocked beyond belief

not a bad idea at all . . .
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 8:07 am
 
Look what John Waters did for Baltimore...THAT was something.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 11:38 am
 
Snarky? You must be one of the groupies that earles was referring to!
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 11:55 am
 
Jay, I'm sure plenty of people have compared your genius to Kurt's. I'm simply offering you an escape from all that angst. Lemme know when you need that shotgun.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 12:00 pm
 
or some moth-eaten cardigans. there was a treasure trove of that shit in my attic when i moved in.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 4:29 pm
 
hailing from Memphis does not automatically make something worthy of attention. If it's from Memphis and it sucks, it sucks, and does not need to be supported. And because there are Memphis bands/fans that have no sense of history (outside of Memphis) or they have the aforementioned tiny frame of reference (barring Memphis-related subjects), it breeds this misconception that the music created by these artists is original or fresh when that couldn't be farther from the truth. They don't realize that there are a gazillion bands that do what they do (sometimes better) all over the country/world, that a gazillion bands did it (sometimes better) 5 - 15 years prior, and on a smaller scale, don't realize that there is a factory in, say, Williamsburg Brooklyn or some other over-saturated music scene (Austin?) that spits out nine similar ventures each hour. I'm not advocating the knowledge of this unless an artist believes, or their fans believe, that what they are doing is highly original or unique, especially if they have an attitude about it. I just can't deal with that.

If anyone other than a music writer had said this...you'd see the words "Music Snob" all over this page. Thanks for takin' the heat Andy. I'm off to the library to call the people there "nerds."
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 4:36 pm
 
so... we've gone from people not supporting music in memphis at all to saying that we only support memphis music?

someone lost me in there somewhere.

i'm for the home team. if we can take any attention away from ANYWHERE ELSE i'm all for it. especially places where people move to be scene.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 5:00 pm
 
I'm off to the library to call the people there "nerds."


hahahhahahaa

so... we've gone from people not supporting music in memphis at all to saying that we only support memphis music?


isn't this why we love it here?? it's like sibling rivalry among all the incestuousness Craig will "exploit."

whatever. i'm behind him.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 5:19 pm
 
someone lost me in there somewhere.

I was lost from the get go. I'm still trying to figure it out. But, yeah, I'm for the home team too. Per usual. I came to the conclusion (after first drunken knee-jerk rantings and after thinking about it for a while) that I didn't understand "the concept." I still don't.

it's like sibling rivalry among all the incestuousness Craig will "exploit."
Would that be like double the trouble incest? Like smacking your brother around because Mommy loves him more and then fucking him in the bathroom?
I still don't know.
I don't want the world thinking we all fuck our brothers and need to go to the dentist...ala the MS video!

But, as I'm officially "reserving judgement" for the sake of the team, I'll hope for the best. And try to shut up.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 5:46 pm
 
Like smacking your brother around because Mommy loves him more and then fucking him in the bathroom?
I still don't know.



hahahha

na i was being sarcastic anyway. that's just one of the criticisms i've heard on the street. it's dumb. does anyone really think Craig wants to shine memphis in a bad light??? i don't.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 7:14 pm
 
It's obvious that in no way were my comments all-encompassing, and that I was referring to a percentage and not the whole. Nor am I coming down on Memphis. I am very pro-Memphis and wouldn't take the time to comment on this thread if I didn't care about my city. I wouldn't be opposed to Muck Sticky being the possible first impression of Memphis for non-regional people if I did not love my city. I wouldn't live anywhere else, and I wouldn't, to give a example, pitch a big feature on Ross Johnson to Harp Magazine if I didn't love my city (it certainly wasn't for the money, especially in light of the magazine's failure, a magazine that paid incredibly late anyway and as such, folded before paying me for three features, but I'm getting off track).

I'm a music snob? Sure, I'll take that. I'm also a book and film snob. If not settling for mediocrity, looking for stuff that impresses me (like The Warble), or not partaking in the back-patting "great set, loved your record" glad-handing that breeds tedium just because I know people in the band or something (I am not accusing anyone in particular of this) makes me a music snob, well, yeah, I'm a music snob. And the arrogance of assumed originality is something that irritates me...if I see some band strutting around like they invented their chosen style, and they don't do a particularly good job with the source material (source material that they are not aware of in the first place), then yeah, I will dismiss it. I have no problem with self-assurance, just a problem with the misconception that minds are being blown by something being done the first time. And everything is an interpretation of source material, whether the artist knows/believes it or not.
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 7:36 pm
 
we're all music snobs. everyone i am friends with anyway. that's just it; i don't even really give a shit what you listen to. if you got goddamned eric crapton as your ringtone, i don't give a shit as long as you are passionate and you don't impose your opinions on me. that's not to say we can discuss things and that's not to say that if i haven't already i won't give your taste a chance. but i get called a music snob daily and a music nerd too, but i gotta say, i'm probably no where near the mentatlity of you, earles, or you, buck or even Eric or fuck, maybe even Craig. but it's why i know i can sit down and talk about it with you all (if given the chance), listen to it and yes, maybe even argue about it. just ask sixlesix. how many times have i made a phone call to you just for education purposes, jeremy? you're the biggest music nerd i know and you're like my brother.

as long a being a "music snob" keeps me from bowing down to the asses of clearchannel or whoever the fuck it is that puts out shitty fucking FM mainstream poo poo, and exposing my already noise damaged eardrums to something that would make my father roll right the fuck over in his grave, well, alright then! we got ourselves a snobby ass fucking party!

woo hoo!!
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 7:36 am | Edited by: saispas
 
I don't think Craig intends to misrepresent, exploit or simply make Memphis look ridiculous (in a way that it isn't), but he does. He may be a great guy, but there are many great guys calling themselves some sort of artist or craftsperson who can't act, can't sing an interesting lyric, can't write an interesting phrase etc etc...at least in my snobby-for-days opine. Yeah, I am a snob too...remember, I had issues with Cafe Eclectic.

I am actually envious that he gets to earn a living doing ridiculous shit like he does, but I am not a fan of his "oeuvre" . I gotta say I was surprisingly pleased with some of Hustle & Flow, but that may be because I was stuck in Portland at the time and missed something of Memphis, even a blown up generalization of it.

But, if I felt he was a camp artist (which he could be--did not see the infamous Ricci Radiator movie), I may reconsider him. I have just never heard any indicator that he is in any way being intentionally silly or over-the-top creative, which makes a huge difference, to me anyway. I love that mess, done well.

Just honing my skills for this season's Project Runway....carry on!
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 8:26 am
 
I have an Eric Clapton ringtone. Bellbottom Blues. Gets 'em everytime.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 8:57 am
 
killer tune.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 10:17 am
 
I used to think I was a snob. Turns out I was just a geek.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 11:54 am
 
if I see some band strutting around like they invented their chosen style, and they don't do a particularly good job with the source material (source material that they are not aware of in the first place), then yeah, I will dismiss it.

Dammit, I've been dismissed again!
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 12:25 pm
 
I don't think Craig intends to misrepresent, exploit or simply make Memphis look ridiculous (in a way that it isn't), but he does.

i'm just dyin for you to elaborate
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 1:00 pm
 
I am not dyin for a lambaste on the Goner Board.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm
 
I can talk myself into both points of view here.

We collectively have a superiority complex. And we have an inferiority complex about it. That is soooo Memphis. Add that to your script, Brewer.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 1:49 pm
 
my boy's got Eric Clapton as a contact ringtone on his phone. it drives me nuts.

not callin for a lambaste, saispas. i was just curious since you said you actually liked hustle and flow and didn't see black snake moan (which does not take place in memphis). i just think that it really doesn't have much do with whether or not Craig is a great guy, i think he is far from a "rediculous" (as you say) representative of Memphis. you can have whatever opinion of his films as you want, but the fact that he CREATES instead of sits on his ass and criticizes on a message board proves that "rediculous" is a far stretch for any way he should be described.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:09 pm
 
I did not say he was a ridiculous representative of Memphis.

Yes, he creates.

Again, he himself is not ridiculous.

I am standing up as I type between working on some typically boring, but ulitmately important (maybe not at exposing Memphis music or artists, but important nonetheless) work.

The end (I knew I should have just kept outta this mess)
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:14 pm
 
but the fact that he CREATES instead of sits on his ass and criticizes on a message board proves that "rediculous" is a far stretch for any way he should be described.

Does that go for Muck Sticky as well?
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:18 pm
 
... and here i was, under the impression that 90% of the people on this board CREATE. stupid,stupid me
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:24 pm
 
This is an online show? What kind of losers watch that shit? txtrs?
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:24 pm
 
What kind of losers watch that shit?

exactly what I was thinking
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:25 pm
 
agh, i new what i said would be taken personally. i diidn't mean to insinuate that you, saispas, sat on your ass. i just meant it generally speaking for you and both know it happens.

however, this is what you said: don't think Craig intends to misrepresent, exploit or simply make Memphis look ridiculous (in a way that it isn't), but he does

so yeah, you didn't say he was a rediculous person, you just said he made memphis look like a rediculous city. thus, he is a rediculous representative?? i don't know, i don't get it.

and no. i'm not even discussing mucksticky. i myself cannot understand why Brewer chose that guy unless of course, it was actually MTV that chose him and that would make more sense.

i should probably just climb right on out of this discussion anyway. joel, i'll give you 100 bucks PLUS what i owe you for your help on my piece of shit car today if i post on this again.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:58 pm
 
I think that it wouldn't be a great loss if fewer people were CREATING.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 4:01 pm
 
This is an online show? What kind of losers watch that shit? txtrs?

Certainly not us tasteless, unsophisticated hicks!

L. A. Times yesterday: Joss Whedon's 'Dr. Horrible' a site-crashing success.
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 4:04 pm
 
Oh I sit on my ass plenty. I also stand up and walk around and do all sorts of things...I don't know, it just seemed like it began with a personal bait and I bit cos even though I was trying to stay out of this for days on end, I eventually made more of a comment about how I really thought about what he has created. I knew the second I did that here, esp. given how vehement people were getting in the guy's defense, that I'd have to go further, which I really don't like doing. When I had little else going on in my life, I had more time for this sort of thing but now I don't have the headspace for it. I am into a discussion for this type of thing in person, however, as long as it doesn't get stupid/violent!

I'd think that Craig Brewer would agree that many of his characterizations are patently ridiculous. See: Ludicris in the bathroom scene in H&F. But maybe I won't speak for him; I will just speak for myself.
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 12:35 pm
 
I know this doesn't follow the party line,but Muck Sticky is my friend & makes me laugh a lot which is always good for my mental health(& I need all the help I can get).
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 12:58 pm
 
We collectively have a superiority complex. And we have an inferiority complex about it. That is soooo Memphis. Add that to your script, Brewer.


if that doesn't sum up Memphis in a nutshell, I don't know what does.
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 1:29 pm | Edited by: Vinyl Ritchie
 
deleted---wrong thread...howd that happen?
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 2:55 pm
 
what?
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 3:35 pm
 
I shit 3 times today
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 5:47 pm
 
Where are the more popular acts like Lord T, Jay Retard, in the midst of all this? What about Calculated X, Tora Tora, Roxy Blue, and the fat dude from Saliva? He should throw in a music critic on coke, a couple of MCA kids, and some scenes with some angry 2 chicks and a broom customers to spice up the drama. How about episodes called "Gettin Paid, Gettin Laid" and "Fuck Art, Let's Kill"? (© 2008 mattb productions)
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 6:52 pm
 
Who cares? This thread is the most attention this "webisode" is ever going to get. Honestly, I haven't watched MTV since they quit playing music videos (over a decade ago?) and I will most certainly not start watching it now on the compruter, for fucks sake.

. . . the fat dude from Saliva?

Wasn't he was already in Hustle and Flow? I think dude has stretched his fifteen minutes about as far as it will go.
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 6:56 pm
 
and some scenes with some angry 2 chicks and a broom customers to spice up the drama.

oh lord. that would be somethin'. "Jack Yarber ran over my cat with his Oreck!"
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 7:32 pm
 
I'll buy the rat poision
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 7:51 pm
 

Wasn't he was already in Hustle and Flow? I think dude has stretched his fifteen minutes about as far as it will go.


He made a pretty penny from this
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 6:18 pm
 
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 6:31 pm
 
that won best documentary at indie memphis film festival six or seven(?) years ago. lord t. and eloise's dj in a heated argument with alicja while a member of melt banana in a surgeon's mask ducks for cover among other things. brilliant. brendan's performance is great also.
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 6:38 pm
 
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wGFEMIASJ5s

AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Never seen that.
Go Prichard.
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 7:57 pm
 
"Reggie: looking to steal the last dollar from the most incomptent (sic) person in the room."
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 8:10 pm
 
names were changed because... well, i don't remember why.

at the very end, there's this shot of jay in a mexican wrestling mask playin his guitar with a bloody mannequin torso! rusty nails was somethin' else. shit, they started a barrel fire in the club.
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 8:28 pm
 
It's no big deal this is midtown, why can't people be cool and help each other.

Best line ever. I don't know any of these people. Carry on now.

PS: Don't fuck with RayWomack.
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 10:27 pm
 
and more importantly bell bottom blues is a killer tune. i don't care. God fuck i hate eric clapton, but that is a KILLER tune. carry on.
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 10:42 pm
 
is that the song that goes...bell bottoms...bell bottoms.... blues explosion?
Posted: Jul 19, 2008 3:32 am
 
that won best documentary at indie memphis film festival six or seven(?) years ago. lord t. and eloise's dj in a heated argument with alicja while a member of melt banana in a surgeon's mask ducks for cover among other things. brilliant. brendan's performance is great also.

I put on that show. What a fucking headache.
Posted: Jul 19, 2008 10:14 am
 
epic show dude! i had pictures somewhere...
Posted: Jul 19, 2008 10:38 am
 
I was there "they" told me , but I don't rememer it.
Posted: Jul 21, 2008 11:37 pm
 
That was fantastic! I love bears.
Posted: Jul 27, 2008 4:56 pm | Edited by: hoodlumps
 
OK GUYS THIS IS RLY SERIOUS11!!11ONE!ELEVEN!!11

I HERD A BUNCH OF AP@THETIC, AGING, IRRELEVANT FORMER HIPSTERS (NO LONGER HIP BECUZ THEY KANT FIT INTO THAR HIP CLOTHS LOLOLOLOLOLOL) ESCAPED THE GERIATRIC WARD TO BITCH ABOUT SERIIOIUS BUSINESS ON THE INT3RN3TS111!!!!11!!!!
















AM I IN THE RIGHT PL@CE???
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 6:55 pm
 
If anyone needs me, I'll be on Cleveland, looking to "spoon".

Did you ever find anyone to spoon with you? Hey, if you ever wanna fork, gimme a call!
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 7:15 pm
 
Cleveland rocks
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 7:22 pm
 
Anybody who's ever lived in Nashville would never complain about Memphis crowds.

Add Birmingham to this list!
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 7:26 pm | Edited by: bamalama
 
OK GUYS THIS IS RLY SERIOUS11!!11ONE!ELEVEN!!11 AM I IN THE RIGHT PL@CE???

You may be... but I would suggest a pit stop at the "Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing" website... and a little detour at www.m-w.com.
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 7:42 pm
 
I have an Eric Clapton ringtone. Bellbottom Blues. Gets 'em everytime.
"I don't wanna fade away....."
Posted: Aug 1, 2008 8:43 am
 
lets just pray to the Lord on bended knee that Craig dosent get to make a movie about Stax that he wants to make, good lord, PLEASE dont let this happen...probably have Rhianna as Carla Thomas or some shit, or DMX as Otis Redding....shudder
Posted: Aug 1, 2008 12:55 pm
 
Carla rules!
Posted: Aug 4, 2008 9:47 pm
 
Jamie Foxx was a pretty good Ray Charles. Couldn't Carla Thomas be Carla Thomas?
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 2:36 pm | Edited by: Mark Rochambeaux
 
Couldn't Carla Thomas be Carla Thomas?


If you can find her. She is known to be "troubled."
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:08 pm
 
OK GUYS THIS IS RLY SERIOUS11!!11ONE!ELEVEN!!11

I HERD A BUNCH OF AP@THETIC, AGING, IRRELEVANT FORMER HIPSTERS (NO LONGER HIP BECUZ THEY KANT FIT INTO THAR HIP CLOTHS LOLOLOLOLOLOL) ESCAPED THE GERIATRIC WARD TO BITCH ABOUT SERIIOIUS BUSINESS ON THE INT3RN3TS111!!!!11!!!!

AM I IN THE RIGHT PL@CE???


Mumblecore is the death rattle of independent film.
Posted: Aug 5, 2008 6:47 pm
 
all i can say about this whole thing is fucking wow !
Posted: Aug 6, 2008 1:10 am
 
that there what we call in hood selling out huzzzah!!
Posted: May 1, 2009 8:47 am
 
so did anyone make it out for the big premiere?

a few (positive) observations:

1. it was pretty cool to see Jack O, Tanlines & Harlan T and their respective bands up on the big ass screen. So they're in rotation on MTV now?

2. Pope can act!

3. Al Kapeezy ain't bad either!

4. Muck Sticky is a sensitive dude
Posted: May 1, 2009 10:05 am
 
i heard good things (was out running around in humid muck in Collierville).

Hell, hope it gets out there and does some good! Craig's been great helping make sure Jack's music was getting out there. Who knows?
Posted: May 1, 2009 12:52 pm
 
so did anyone make it out for the big premiere?

I went to the late one. Got out at 12:50.
Overall, there's tons of good stuff about it. I keep forgetting his name, but the dude that plays "Packy" is hillarious. When they were filming it, they looked at RSA upstairs. They called it "too professional", and I was kind of taken aback by that. Now that I've seen it in context, they made the right move to move it downstairs. Tons of our gear used for props, though. More thoughts later.
Posted: May 1, 2009 1:53 pm
 
Couldn't Carla Thomas be Carla Thomas?


If you can find her. She is known to be "troubled."



I saw her a couple years a go...she said I looked like Meathead from all in the family.
Posted: May 1, 2009 5:21 pm
 
Carla rules.

Packy is Jeff Pope, and he is funny.
Posted: May 1, 2009 6:31 pm
 
I thought it was good and I'm sure most people on this board will disagree but I liked Muck Sticky's acting and live performance scenes.

If anyone tries to take it too seriously they won't like it.
Posted: May 1, 2009 7:13 pm
 
I'm sure most people on this board will disagree but I liked Muck Sticky's acting and live performance scenes.

You know, I'm not a big Muck Sticky fan. But the movie made him damn near likeable.
Posted: May 1, 2009 11:36 pm
 
Jack stands you must be from frasyer or something ?
Posted: May 2, 2009 1:53 am
 
it looked really good. the film quality looks fantastic. the story lines are a bit corny but whatever. i actually watched it on mtv tonight and it was really strange seeing people you see on a normal basis on mtv. kinda bizarro.
Posted: May 2, 2009 2:58 am
 
Jack stands you must be from frasyer or something ?

Originally from Raliegh, but close enough. Nah, man, what I meant was that I've seen Muck Sticky accidentally a few times and promptly walked out, due to the sheer novelty. To me, you're right, it's a North-North version of the Lord T thing. Fun for the kids, but not my cup of Earl Grey hot or Lipton on ice. Camp. But in the movie, I had to sit there and watch the spectacle. The tickets were ten bucks, not $5 cover. In this economy, I'm going to try to get my money's worth.
So, Muck Sticky, I sat through it. The schtick in the second episode is well represented. I got it. He's just having fun. No big deal. I don't compare him to the high art of Heavy Beagle, where we try to hurt people with sound, then make the bartenders suffer because a few friends get up and want to "jam" drunkenly after we've cleared everyone out. But, like Muck Sticky, we just want to have fun. In spite of "taste". His character in the movie is cornpone, but likeable, especially later through the series. And I guess that's what I meant. His character is likeable enough. Will I go see him play? No. Will I buy a record from him? Not as long as the music doesn't interest me. But, do I know a little bit more about him? Yes. And that helps to confirm my answers on the first two questions. But is he having fun? Yeah, and I can't fault him for it. I'm sure Freeworld is still having fun after 20+ years. But my fun is different and I'll get mine. No harm, no foul.

In other notes, within the first two episodes, the acting is crap (except for the Packy dude). Brent's(vishnu or whoever, love him) acting is a little stiff. And watching Ben say the line "You're a dangerous girl, Claire." was as uncomfortable as watching the Slingblade guy say "What will we do without Freedom?" in Armageddeon when that one space ship got all fucked up.
And, as a Memphian, the continuity was a little fucked up. When Muck Sticky goes out with Claire behind the Daisy parking lot, all of a sudden they are talking in the car next to the Sears building. Nobody outside of Memphis is going to know, but still, it's there.
But that's pretty much most of my shit-talking. Most of the first two episodes are a little weak for me.
(Disclaimer - that Amy Lavere track in the first episode is pretty fucking good, and her interaction with the catering lady is pretty good.)
The third episode and after is where it really started picking up for me. Kapone's "track" and the Brad Posthlewate(?) being a training doctor episode, and when Packy finally gets a response from the landlord are all really great moments.
Throughout the rest of the movie, I grinned a whole lot. There were great performances; the characters were immediately identifiable (not who they actually were, but who they were portrayinr; the film duo weren't the people I knew, but I knew who they represented, and I was glad to see it. The Roller Derby episode is great. It was like a reverse Gonerfest IV for Reyes during Jay's set, in my eyes). And, again, living here, having these memories, I could connect completely. And back to the performances, Jeremy is a little shorter than me. Standing next to Harlan on stilts, well...
And Lucero and Selvidge and Alicja and Terrance and Bubba all looked great. And Jack at Earnestine and Hazels.
And I got to look at all the RSA gear; from booms to mics to cabinets to baffles, standing 40 feet in front of me. I'd look at the headphones on AJ (if I remember correctly) and said to myself, "Holy crap, I was wearing those at work today, and now they're huge!" because they're old and I need some at my new cubicle.
The papers talk about a Craig talking about a franchise and doing other cities. Fine. Memphis came first, and fuck it. I like looking at it. Brewer wins. At the end of the premier, Craig was sitting right in front of me. I wanted to tap him on the shoulder and tell him "Good job." I don't know him from Adam, but hell, I have a hard time telling anyone (musician, or filmaker or label or engineer or otherwise) what a good job I think they do without a few beers in me (those that fall in the previous categories can probably at least attest to the "how many beers I've had" part - I LOVE YOU, MAN!, I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY MEAN IT! I THINK YOU'RE THE FUCKING GREATEST!). But I didn't tap him on the shoulder. It was over and I walked out. Packy Rules, thanks for doing it here Craig, and I hope some of the acts I liked in it get some more coverage.
Anyway, my final thoughts, I guess, are:
Wanted to hate it.
Didn't
Enjoyed myself.
In spite of being out too late.
Kept thinking about it through today.
Bought Records today after work.
Didn't go to M.O.T.O.
Dropped the boy off at a his friends.
Went to dinner with my wife for the first time in forever.
Came home and watched $5.00 cover later.
On MTV, no less.
Neat.
Posted: May 2, 2009 9:48 am | Edited by: the New Alienator
 
Didn't go to M.O.T.O.













Fag.
Posted: May 2, 2009 3:18 pm | Edited by: Alisa
 
Okay, watched the first three "tracks" and the amplified stuff this morning.

Cringeworthy:
excess viewing time of hot Memphis girls in their underpants (yeah, I know...like I'm going to get any of you guys to agree with this...it was just a bit much. Why does their have to be girls in their underwear in practically every scene? Guess this is what makes the series "sexy".)

most of the acting and improv'd dialogue. Script that shit, Craig!

Valerie June saying "yayuh, I'll jus be here makin beans n coanbread"...like, seriously

Noteworthy:
the live music performances. VERY nice to see so much of the songs and music featured. Did a great job in showing the, uh, diversity of the music scene here

the "amplified" parts with Amy and Muck Sticky. For me, these were MUCH better than the series. The Muck Sticky one was downright touching. I'm looking forward to seeing more of these.

the shock of seeing people I see all the time, and realizing this is going to probably be a very huge boost to their careers.

I think I'm just too old to really like the "show" itself. I've seen enough of this kind of real life Memphis music/fucking drama to not think it's all that "entertaining" anymore.
Otherwise, kudos to the concept of giving our musicians lots of airplay with their music. Thank goodness Harlan wasn't in his underpants.
Posted: May 2, 2009 4:29 pm
 
Saw a bit on MTV last night and yeah, it looked good and seeing Brent and Ben made me giggle more than a little, especially knowing Brent for so long and then seeing him "be" some totally different guy.
I missed Muck Stucky in any role other than part of the stage show but that shit really made me cringe. The least of the reasons being the sexy girl dancers, that part of it was ok but his rap, clothing choices and the midget action were...well, I don't need to say anything else about that! I'm looking forward to seeing Alicja and also Al Kapone.
Hustle & Flow came on afterwards and yeah, that was a nice little movie. Except for the Ludicris scene which I'll never need to watch again.
Speaking of so bad it might be good, has anyone seen Notorious?
Posted: May 3, 2009 12:50 am
 
excess viewing time of hot Memphis girls in their underpants

i agree with ya on this. it's a little silly.
Posted: May 3, 2009 12:57 am
 
Posted: May 3, 2009 9:15 am
 
"M.T.V.-Get Off The Air"

Fun Fun Fun in the fluffy chair
Flame up the herb
Woof down the beer
[click!]
Hi
I'm your video DJ
I always talk like I'm wigged out on quaaludes
I wear a satin baseball jacket everywhere I go

My job is to help destroy
What's left of your imagination
By feeding you endless doses
Of sugar-coated mindless garbage

So don't create
Be sedate
Be a vegetable at home
And thwack on that dial
If we have our way even you will believe
This is the future of rock and roll

How far will you go
How low will you stoop
To tranquilize our minds with your sugar-coated swill

You've turned rock and roll rebellion
Into Pat Boone sedation
Making sure nothing's left to the imagination

M.T.V. Get off the
M.T.V. Get off the
M.T.V. Get off the air
Get off the air

See the latest rejects from the muppet show
Wag their tits and their dicks
As they lip-synch on screen
There's something I don't like
About a band who always smiles
Another tax write-off
For some schmuck who doesn't care

M.T.V. Get off the air
And so it was
Our beloved corporate gods
Claimed they created rock video
Allowing it to sink as low in one year
As commercial TV has in 25
"It's the new frontier," they say
It's wide open, anything can happen
But you've got a lot of nerve
To call yourself a pioneer
When you're too god-damn conservative
To take real chances.

Tin-eared
Graph-paper brained accountants
Instead of music fans
Call all the shots at giant record companies now

The lowest common denominator rules
Forget honesty
Forget creativity
The dumbest buy the mostest
That's the name of the game

But sales are slumping
And no one will say why
Could it be they put out one too many lousy records?!?

M.T.V.-Get off the air!
NOW
Posted: May 3, 2009 8:56 pm
 
"M.T.V.-Get Off The Air"

How about you just change the channel?

13-year old inspired punk lyrics are stupid.
Posted: May 3, 2009 10:30 pm
 
And, as a Memphian, the continuity was a little fucked up.

i was just telling cort about this and then brent and chick stocking the bar at e and h but then serving from the hitone
Posted: May 3, 2009 11:31 pm
 
man, I miss the Muppet Show. that song brought me back.
Posted: May 3, 2009 11:37 pm
 
Valerie June saying "yayuh, I'll jus be here makin beans n coanbread"...like, seriously

yeah, and it shoulda been "greens n cornbread" anyways cause I dunno about that whole house full of guys n gals all havin beans and then hookin up.
Posted: May 4, 2009 2:27 am
 
Just got through the first epidsode of the series. I got two words for you: breakout character.

Yep, Brent Shrewsbury as "Nick" -- the drummer that the chicks can't resist. Nick is the Fonz of $5 Cover.

Two more words: catch phrase. Or maybe that's just one word. Whatever.

But Nick's "lose the dude" line. Pure gold, my man. "Lose the dude" is the "sit on it" of the 21st century.

Seriously: less ladies in panties, more Nick.
Posted: May 4, 2009 10:32 am
 
Nick is the Fonz of $5 Cover.

Yeah, what was the line about "The Code"? Her response to Nick was a sigh and "Yeah, but its hard to have A Code in Memphis."
Posted: May 4, 2009 10:52 am
 
Nick is the Fonz of $5 Cover.

Yeah, what was the line about "The Code"? Her response to Nick was a sigh and "Yeah, but its hard to have A Code in Memphis."


a code of honor I suppose. You know with all that hot pussy and fine ass, amazing musicans and the wild wild crazy scene in Memphis, its hard to stay faithful and responsible in this kind of hedonistic enviornment. I mean its like Caligula around here!
Posted: May 4, 2009 12:45 pm
 
Yeah, what was the line about "The Code"?

Ia usea odeca alla heta imeta. Ikela hista: hywa ouya waysla uckfa mya riendsfa? Hatta hitsa otna oolca. Ouya nowska Ia uvla ouya. Ontda eba osa ruelca! Osela heta udeda and etsla atea omesa oanbreadca nda akema pua.
Posted: May 4, 2009 1:23 pm
 
I got the idea of The Code, I just wanted to know what "Nick" said about this Code to prompt the chick to whine about how hard it was to have one in this town.
Posted: May 4, 2009 2:00 pm | Edited by: Bob Mehr
 
Okay, okay. Just watched the second episode of “$5 Cover” and I have to say it was a bit of disappointment. Why? No appearance from America's favorite new TV sensation "Nick" as played by Brent “Lose the Dude” Shrewsbury, aka The Shrooz!

He's mentioned prominently throughout the episode but - like Brando in Godfather II - he's kept tantalizingly off screen. That is until we get to episode three where my man is ON FIRE FROM THE GET GO!

First scene with him, he’s there stocking the bar, and dropping catchphrases like Magic used to drop dimes: “I’m totally cool with casual sex”; “She’s your BFD, or FF or whatever you want to call it”; “We have codes against this shit: we break ‘em all the time, but we got ‘em.”

G-NE-US!

Three eps in and, for me, Shrooz has already cemented his place in the great tradition of breakout TV characters (Fonzie, Rerun, Latka Gravas, Monroe Ficus).

And the way the episode ends, with the Shrooz dropping that smoldering look right into the lens - I say, goddamn! Speaking of Godfather II, that look was straight from the Pacino playbook - the part when Kay tells Michael she aborted his baby and is leaving him. I thought Shrooz was gonna explode, slap LaVere across the face and bellow “You…will…not…take my P.A.!”

But the absolute best part about Shrooz’s budding mainstream stardom, and what these corporate fools at MTV/Viacom don't realize is that they've welcomed a true anarcho-vegan-punk into their midst who will, ultimately, bring about their very downfall.

Now that the Shrooz is in the belly of the beast he's totally going to SMASH THE SYSTEM FROM THE INSIDE!

The chickens - along with a side of beans and cornbread - is coming home to roost, y'all.
Posted: May 4, 2009 2:08 pm
 
I hope you are writing these witti/criticisms for a bigger market than the Memphis section on the Goner B; if you truly care about our friend's career, you will.

Thanks for clearing up The Code issue and reminding me of his BFD line.
Posted: May 4, 2009 2:37 pm | Edited by: Bob Mehr
 
Not trying to be witty, just telling the truth. And the Shrooz definitely don't need my help to blow up. He’s on his way already.

Don’t believe me? Well, check out the top story on Variety.com - the bible of show biz - right now. They have a piece which reports that:

"Brent Shrewsbury, one of the new faces featured on MTV’s ensemble rock ‘n’ roll drama $5 Cover, will be making a guest appearance, playing himself, on the upcoming season of HBO's Entourage."

The story goes on to say that "Shrewsbury is one of several celebs slated for a music-themed episode that will kick off Entourage’s sixth season in July. Other confirmed guest stars include Perry Farrell, Richard Marx, Merle Allin, MC Serch, Fee Waybill and the late Jerry Reed, who filmed his scenes before passing away last fall.”

See, he’s already turning heads in Hollywood! Forget Ari and Johnny Drama, those guys don’t deserve to carry Shrooz’s headband, shorts and sticks!
Posted: May 4, 2009 2:49 pm
 
"I got my headband and my sticks"
That's when I got another beer for I knew I was gonna need it
Posted: May 4, 2009 3:04 pm | Edited by: Bob Mehr
 
First of all, Golightly, the line is "I've got my headband, shorts and sticks."

But I think you may be onto something with the beer.

Remember the old TV drinking game "Hi Bob"? That's when people used to watch the old Bob Newhart Show and take a drink everytime anyone said "Hi Bob" -- which was quite often.

Maybe we can do the same thing with $5 Cover and Nick - like you would have to take a drink anytime someone says "Hi Nick." Or maybe, if you really wanted to get drunk, you would also have to take a drink during any scene that shows or implies that Nick/Shrooz has just nailed some girl with his man hammer. I dunno, it's just a thought.

More importantly, I'm hoping when the series is all over someone will put together a reel of the Shrooz's best one-liners and post it on YouTube. Maybe something like this, but WAAAY more awesome and cool and Shroozed out.

Posted: May 4, 2009 6:06 pm
 
NoComply 7" coming soon, featuring the "Lose The Dude" man himself, SHROOZ!
Posted: May 4, 2009 6:42 pm
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeeyWvo1rNg

THAT'S what I'm talkin' bout!
Posted: May 4, 2009 7:57 pm
 
$5 Cover drinking game: Take a shot everytime you see Xmas tree lights.
Posted: May 5, 2009 8:31 am
 
$5 Cover drinking game: Take a shot everytime you see Xmas tree lights.

HA!

Or panties.
Posted: May 5, 2009 8:35 am
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeeyWvo1rNg

THAT'S what I'm talkin' bout!


they should have added the roger daltry scream after each line
Posted: May 5, 2009 8:37 am
 
Ia usea odeca alla heta imeta. Ikela hista: hywa ouya waysla uckfa mya riendsfa? Hatta hitsa otna oolca. Ouya nowska Ia uvla ouya. Ontda eba osa ruelca! Osela heta udeda and etsla atea omesa oanbreadca nda akema pua.

I actually understand THIS!
Posted: May 5, 2009 10:19 am
 
Eesa, itsa otna osa ardha ota aveha odeca ina Emphisma. Ia rderoa alla yma rinksda ata heta Itoneha hista aywa: Eyha, Anda, ivega ema iftyfa hiskeyswa nda odasa, anda akema ita nappysa. Ia orema rettypa henwa ia runkda. Ellha eahya!!!! Ustja awsa irlga ina antiespa, otttaga oga. Llrighta! Llrighta!!
Posted: May 5, 2009 11:05 am
 
they should have added the roger daltry scream after each line

Ask and ye shall recieve:



It is even better this way.
Posted: May 5, 2009 11:56 am
 
Ask and ye shall recieve:

Does the Commercial Appeal know you're using their computer lab for the forces of evil?
Posted: May 5, 2009 11:58 am
 
It is even better this way.

Fucking hilarious. David Caruso should star in some LMN originals.
Posted: May 5, 2009 5:44 pm
 
Eesa, itsa otna osa ardha ota aveha odeca ina Emphisma.

Yes, Bully, I see.
And, both are just like the French language to me. I can't speak or understand it anymore, but I sure can read it!
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