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Goner Message Board / Memphis / A More Modest Proposal
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Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:22 pm
 
It ain't my camera, you'll have to take up your threats of assault w/Mike McCarthy and his crew, Nick Davis and his folks, and assorted parents of performing children.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:23 pm
 
2 pages of MORE Carjack Land whining!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:23 pm
 
I see you actually started reading again, tool.

I believe it can be negotiated with LRK to save the rides. If they can't, well, I'll work with the Memphis Heritage group. But I won't do a thing to help your bullshit movie.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:24 pm
 
Beg to diff on the 4:20! Hahahhahahah
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:26 pm
 
performing children

I think stinky meat slop needs to be added to the eggs, we could put them in a catapult. Mike might get some good footage.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:27 pm
 
It ain't my camera, you'll have to take up your threats of assault w/Mike McCarthy and his crew, Nick Davis and his folks, and assorted parents of performing children.

Kids, this is the reality of nickles; see, this nickle represents an insurgent IED. That camera lens represents Libertyland. Fuck you all! It's my art!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:28 pm
 
2 pages of MORE Carjack Land whining!
I apologize that it's had to go on. Dee doesn't want to hear other opinions.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 10:39 pm
 
Oh... I love it! Keep em comin!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:00 pm
 
I hear your opinions. Which are (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) that:
1) Libertyland sux;
2) Childhood memories are vastly over-rated;
3) Jobs (of folks who've worked at Libertyland for decades or kids who get their first summer employment there) don't matter;
4) Robert Barnard and Dan Aylward (the 2 CEOs who want to bid on Libertyland, renovate it, and make it profitable) are carpetbaggers;
5) All the people who have fostered their talents onstage at Libertyland don't matter;
6) Children who are growing up in Memphis should not be allowed the chance that you had to go to a theme park in their hometown;
7) I suck because I care enough to respond to silly threads in hopes of providing up-to-date, pertinent info;
8) The money we raised doing concerts pro bono (which netted less than $200 so far, since we paid the bands at the Ice Storm show at HiTone) is somehow suspect because we used it to buy film to continue our documentary on the destruction of historic sites in Memphis and effort to Save Libertyland;
8) You plan on attacking a free festival for kids with rotten Easter Eggs.

Did I miss anything?
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:04 pm
 
Oh that would be Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine....
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:07 pm
 
The reason the form was not mailed out until today is because I didn't get it until a couple of days ago, knew nothing about its existence until then,

Well why not?? That seems like something that would have been looked into back in November.
Okay, I'm going to sum up here...
"Us people" (goners, memphians) are all for saving the Pippin and Carousel. Most of us think that Libertyland SUCKS, though, and would like to see better use of the land. The "Save Libertyland" campaign was presented here as a rah-rah grass roots movement, for the city, and for "the kids" but ALSO MOSTLY (when the truth was told) as a vehicle for JMM (I love Mike...I really do, and I'd love to see a doc about some community activism here.) Cutesy names were called..."us people" were AGAINST THE CHILDREN and could not appreciate the parallels this has with the Iraqi war. PRECIOUS CHILDHOOD MEMORIES was bandied about for a long time. And now "us people" are all a closed circle who can't see the benefits of cleaning with pathchouli. Egg party became threats of assault (and legal action on the egg partiees) became "is that the best you can do?"

KEERIST!!!!! I'M FUCKING GOING BACK TO FOOD AND DRINK TO TALK ABOUT BRUSSEL'S SPROUTS!!!!!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:10 pm
 
1) yes
2) your idea of them are.
3) Karl Rove Tactics. No one has said this, you misrepresenting tool.
4) You and your film are carpetbaggers.
5) No, they didn't really.
6) They deserve better than what you propose.
7) Yes, you do. And your percentiles of posts to information would be less than 3%. And I'm being generous.
8) We can agree on this, except that I will add you lack scruples.
8) No, I'm not attacking the festival at all. Just you and your stupid film.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:15 pm
 
1.) yes
2.) yes
3.) well...some companies close down...it's a fact of life
4.) no, you're the carpetbagger
5.) Come on. I would not put on my professional resume that I'd fostered my talent at Libertyland
6.) Well, no. It's expensive. What's wrong with mudpies?
7.) Not much pertinent info...mostly just whining about "the kids" Some pertinent info, but not in a concise, understandable way.
8.) A real sticking point. Save Libertyland benefits were first presented as an effort to SAVE LIBERTYLAND, not to buy film or give the kiddies a place to perform (book the Hi-Tone one afternoon, fercrissakes)
9.) Jack's from Raliegh. What do you expect? (MWAH Jack!)

GOD, FOR A NICE CONCISE DISCUSSION OF FLAN!!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:17 pm
 
Jack's from Raliegh. What do you expect?

Amen. Thank you, Alisa.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:19 pm
 
G'bye, then, Alisa! Bon Apetit!

I have yet to detect any love for anything or anybody from the Haters who keep kvetching about a housewife's attempt to keep a local amusement park from being bulldozed for condominiums.

As for the Iraq War, the shadow of it hovers over every possible circumstance in America, and it is inescapable. Add to that now the hyped-up, looming Iran conflict, wherein the Nukes Are On The Table!

"You People" means anybody who has said herein that Libertyland Sux simply because there exists not the imagination nor will nor hope that it could be transformed into something better.
People, we are talking about a 25-acre parcel within a 160-acre (mostly) asphalt rectangle. This 25-acre parcel produces hundreds of jobs and millions of dollars of tourist revenue. This 25-acre parcel would not in any way conflict with the redevelopment plans of MAC or Salvation Army and has been stated by Rick Brenneman of MAC as being perfectly in line with their plans, plans that can be brought to fruition ADJACENT to and COMPLEMENTING Libertyland.

Anybody who lobs anything at our kids onstage will answer for it, thanks to our formidable legal team and the MPD.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:22 pm
 
Okay, this is really more fun than brussel sprouts.
Are you nuts? Nobody is going to lob ANYTHING at the kiddies.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:22 pm
 
Do u for one minute think that hes being serious? I mean why would anyone want to come up against your formitable legal team or the MPD.

Wait a minute, your down with the Po Po's?????
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:22 pm
 
Who said anything about "lobbing", tool?
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:25 pm
 
People may not have actually SAID jobs don't matter, but when the summer heat index rises and all those out-of-work teens face the Mean Streets of Memphis, will the hundreds of lost jobs matter then? Then it will be too late to speak out, to say that Libertyland provided Orange Mound kids with something they could actually walk to in order to get a work ethic and a paycheck. This comes via the president of the Orange Mound Community Development Corporation, who has expressed to us his deep concern over the disproportionate impact these job cuts will have on the youth of Orange Mound, who have held many of the hundreds of summer jobs at Libertyland for decades.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:25 pm
 
There's a lobyist on the board??!! I need some contracts! Somebody LOBBY me for contracts! WHOO-HOO!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:26 pm
 
Those kids are gonna grow up to be crack heads anyway. You know I'm right.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:28 pm
 
I'm bringin White Castles to LOB at the kiddies! Eat this Kiddies! Up next, chicken rings! WHOO-HOO!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:29 pm
 
Nobody has said jobs for kids don't matter. In fact, this is the ONLY point that you've made that makes any sense to me.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:29 pm
 
White Castles to LOB at the kiddies!
That'd be Krystals, babe.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:30 pm
 
Oh...whoops! My bad. Thanks Alisa!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:31 pm
 
Jobs for kids don't matter. "laughing hysterically. I know where they can get a job. At the Antenna Club! Why don't you go save that!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:32 pm
 
Man, that sounds cool! I might haveta road trip for some czech kabobs & a real cool street party. I got a record coming out on a Brooklyn pop star soon. Maybe he can do an in-store?

You've come a long way from your humble beginnings at Libertyland!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:32 pm
 
So, summer sports don't have any affect on crime prevention in teens?
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:37 pm
 
Brooklyn pop star? hmmmm intresting. Of course they can do an instore! We have 26 bands scheduled for both days right now so times a little tight. But we are gonna have instore performances every weekend for free anyway. If ya want I can see if we can fit your artist on the opening bill. As far as road trip, it's cheaper to fly. With these gas prices and such. Fuck yeah Sherman! Come on!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:37 pm
 
Theres only one wat to go from any beginings at Liberty Land! ha-ha...
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:38 pm
 
Thats one WAY. whoops...
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:39 pm
 
He'll be outta town for the opening but definitely a record release in late summer/early fall!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:41 pm
 
I've also come to the conclusion that the only one really damaged by the closing of Libertyland is No Car Mommy.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:43 pm
 
But she's got a car now.
And how the hell can you afford Libertyland and not afford a car????
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:43 pm
 
Yeah. I think your right. Everybody else seems to be AT WORK! ha-ha..
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:45 pm
 
Sherman, I have a car. And a BROOM!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:50 pm
 
Maybe if you sweep up all the crack pipes out of Carjack Land someone will wanna BUY IT!

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAM SONNNNN!

HEE=HAWW!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:52 pm
 
Well, now you can drive to a real attraction. If you need a list, I sell a travel guide of fun spots all over the area. I'm sure you'll find that once you get past walking distance, there are plenty better things for your kids to do that are far more fun than Libertyland. In a year or two, your kids can walk to a great sports park.
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:53 pm
 
ZING!
Posted: Apr 20, 2006 11:56 pm
 
Am I the only that thinks it wierd that a woman with a 20 year kid still wants to drag them to Libertyland?????
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:00 am
 
Talk about a Pronto Pup!

HEE=HAWW!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:02 am
 
My 20+ yo kid is the one that always HATED Libertyland. The other two were always like..."ehh."
I think Dee has younger kids, as I do. My youngest is 11, but would laugh in my face if I wanted to take him to Libertyland.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:03 am
 
Wow--get some things done for awhile it is has gone to page numero dos.

You know it really gets exhausting trying to have a productive give & take with someone who is crazy. Or something. This reminds me of talking to a client with a bonafide DSM-IV diagnosis...for reals. There is no end to it and no making sense.

Gotta get back to the sun.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:07 am
 
Fiery, go toward the light.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:08 am
 
I like fierydrunk's idea of putting the carousel on the front lawn of the pink palace. I think that would look terrific and be a great attraction for the museum. Do they still have the grand circus set up inside?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:12 am
 
Two people want to buy it.

I have a 10 year-old who said that Libertyland was so fun she wanted to spend all her birthdays there. I have to let her down this year, as May 1st is the day the Midsouth Fair is accepting RFPs on a Carousel they don't own, the like of which exists nowhere in the world.

I have a 21-month-old who will never get to ride the Carousel or the Pippin, unless Mr. Stands can bring on the miracle we all need. All power to you, JackO, and my undying gratitude if you succeed. Apparently, I can't even get a bunch of Goners to see the value in supporting an effort to save a piddly little Theme Park. Congratulations, folks! You win. I suck, my efforts suck, my dreams suck, my free festival sux, my other three concerts sucked (although David Mah said Otherlands' Kids Concert was incredible and I tend to think he knows whereof he speaks) at any rate -- I'm a full-on, bonafide failure as an information distributor and feckless silly participator in blog-rolling, thread-contributing, and anything else you wish to call me. I give. Enjoy your brussels sprouts.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:17 am
 
I got a pal sellin a KISS pinball machine. I could hook you up with him. For a modest finders fee of course! Great for Birthdays!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:18 am
 
What's the name of your store?????
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:34 am
 
Passout Record Shop

www.passoutrecordshop.com

I gotsta get the site updated so, don't freak out.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:36 am
 
Do they still have the grand circus set up inside?

Yes they do. Though it only operates certain hours. I also think the carousel on the front lawn is a great idea.
Talk about history...Memphis history. That circus is just absolutely incredible. We have a family membership to the Pink Palace...great place for kids.

Dee, when children are ten years old they will be just as happy with bowling, or Chuck E. Cheese, or PUTT PUTT. They will not cry big tears at their Libertyland loss when they are stuffing cake and pizza in their mouth.
How about the zoo? They have rides there.
I will reiterate my stance on raising children...the best thing they can learn is that life is change. Things pass, things fade away. Memories are that...memories.

You haven't really come up against opposition here...just reaction over the fact that if we don't want to save a third rate inner-city park we are all against children. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:38 am
 
we are all against children
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:45 am
 
Apparently, I can't even get a bunch of Goners to see the value in supporting an effort to save a piddly little Theme Park.


Thats the point, you are just trying to GET a bunch of people to agree with you, not respecting others ideas and opinions about Libertyland. You havent and never will obviously. You expect Jack (and everyone else) to submit to your correctness and your truthiness, why would u expect that of someone, when you wouldnt do it yourself? Thats what gets me about you, You wouldnt bend an inch, yet you fully expected to be able to bend everyone elses beliefs and truly real memories of Libertyland. You cant fuck with MY memories of Libertyland. I almost died on a fucked up ride. It was horrible.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:51 am
 
I never expected everybody to agree with me (this is America) but I did have the naive hope that somebody who thought Libertyland sucked could imagine a theme park described by the two professionals who wanted a chance to make it so.

Dream Over.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:52 am
 
Apparently, I can't even get a bunch of Goners to see the value in supporting an effort to save a piddly little Theme Park.

Well, duh. What does "GONERS" connotate to you????
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 12:58 am
 
Makes that KISS pinball game look awfully good don't it?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:03 am
 
Defeatist!

And u expected for us to imagine this grand dream while you were arguing or name-calling? I mean calling people poo-poo names, come on!!!!!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:13 am
 
That's true, Alisa. There are many who have not chimed in in support of either cause. There was a time for debate. I put up this thread to propose my idea, and encouraged (over, and over, and over again) dee to start her own.
I suspect that some may agree with her proposal; in fact, Harlan, and Jeff and Ross are helping, and good for them, good for her cause, good for dee. For all I know, even eric and zac may support keeping all of Libertyland (they have a business in the community that may have direct impact resulting from the fate of the park). However, I doubt that anyone would want to read through the dreck and rehash that has become two pages on a message board. Much less, I find that it would not encourage the Memphis Goners that have not had a say to want to post any of their viewpoints for fear of retribution by dee or myself, perhaps. Please know, however, that at least I value other's thoughts, except for those who would seek to do no more than ridicule and attempt to intimidate(dee).
I have tried to make this thread an option for anyone that might share my opinion. Unfortunately, dee will not let other opinions be heard.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:24 am
 
Makes that KISS pinball game look awfully good don't it?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:28 am
 
Indeed, dtrain. Indeed.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:30 am
 
I support the catapult idea Jack.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:32 am
 
Off to make a crossbow. Catapult this weekend.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:35 am
 
I'm off to see the Ghettoways.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:41 am
 
I am not saying that all the people that habituate this board are fatalists, or curmudgeons, or unable to see another's viewpoint. In fact, that's one of the things I like best about the Goner board, LOTS of viewpoints, and basically lots of tolerence for all those views. But I think it's ludicrous to come on a "Goner" (real gone, long gone, done for) board and expect wholesale rallying around a lost cause. Or, at best, a cause that's presented solely for sentimental reasons.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:49 am
 
How old is the Carousel? I believe it is likely around the same age as the Pink Palace...I just think that would be so lovely. Yeah, it sorta smacks of Gatsby's House, but whatever. You could light it beautifully and build some sort of wrought iron boundary so people could not get in and destroy it.

I am sure someone at the Pink Palace could write a decent RFP to get funding to operate it. Ideally, whomever owns it could donate it to the museum as a write off as a donation to a nonprofit educational museum.

Yeah. I suck. I have no vision nor dreams. AND I hate kids and don't care about their fun or sense of wonder. I am just a negative nelly!!!!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 1:54 am
 
Hi my name is Christopher Banks i am 16 years old and my first time ever going to an amusement park was 10 years ago at Libertyland. But, last November they decided to close to the park. I and other people around the Memphis Area are kind of disappointed about this. So the group Save Libertyland has been trying to save the park since then. But on the website http://savelibertyland.blogspot.com/ it said Anyone who cares about this looming tactical error (the MidSouth Fair's announced decision -- on Easter Sunday, no less! -- to sell the Historic Dentzel-Mueller Carousel to highest bidder) can call the MidSouth Fair's office at 274-8800 and express their opinion that it need not be sold. And i called them today and the woman i talked to said she didn't know if they were going to sell the Carousel or not and she also said that there was no luck of Libertyland being saved. But i still think there is a chance for it. I just wanted to show this with you.

- Christopher Banks
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:01 am
 
From: CoasterJohn@aol.com
They wait at the gates for a resolution,
the ticket booths rotting away
A seemingly perfect place,
meeting its end today
We had our fun, we laughed at you,
we cut you down and now we regret
You're no longer with us this Spring day,
you would have had your 31st birthday today
We see the paint, slowly turning to rust,
the bustling midway, now a ghost town
What has happened to this place
what did you do to deserve this?
We stand outside,
a chain-link fence between us
A tear rolls down,
A memory sparks another
The screaming, the laughing, the thrills,
where have they gone?
This spring I mourn your lost,
I had my thrill at your cost
Libertyland,
1976 - 2005
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:02 am
 
FROM: Scott Harrison

City: Pine Bluff, ARK

Comments = to the people of tennessee you already lost opryland don't let libertyland fall to, i told the owners of opryland i will never return to nashville because some one had a brain fart to tear down a beautiful park so if the owners of libertyland does the same thing i will have no other reason to visit memphis. amusement parks are the main reason i visit these cities and i do other things while i am there so please save libertyland and tell the owners save our history!!! the one voice has spoken !
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:03 am
 
FROM: Jerry Corder

Subject: Libertyland and Memphis

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 22:43:10 -0600

I am a Memphian, moved away 15 years ago, living in N.W. Arkansas. I looked up LibertyLand for old memories and was saddened to see it closing. What tha!!!! I lived near Libertyland growing up...Ketchum/Airways area and have wonderful memories of the place. I remember the fairgrounds before it was Libertyland...the main entrance, the "Fairview Cafe", across the street...I remember the two polar bears in front.

I hate to see it close, but I guess times change things, I am 42...and keep up with Memphis news. I also heard that the colosium is basically dead...many concerts and wrestling memories there! Please let me know if you are doing a film of Libertyland, I would be interested in purchasing a copy.

Thanks!
Jerry Corder
(Overton High School '83)
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:04 am
 
From: "Joe Montesi"

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 2:03 PM

Subject: LIBERTYLAND

Dear Mssrs. McCormick & Brittenum,

Memphis has made some big cultural mistakes in the past relating to our history including things such as letting the Hunt-Phelan go a few years ago & letting the Hill mansion be demolished for a cheap chain restaurant site (the Three Sisters, which eventually went out of business).

A city does not have much to distinguish itself today with shopping & dining becoming universally the same anywhere you go in the US. What a city does have is it's own culture, a mixture of attractions that are important to our past and present. When the Memphis Fairgrounds was converted to Libertyland many years ago we lost some of our culture at that location with the loss of "The Old Mill" and other rides. Now I understand the city wants to demolish the area so that that area we now call Libertyland becomes a shopping area like anywhere else in Memphis or the USA. Memphis needs to make every effort save what's left of it's own culture diversity on all levels now or risk becoming a generic city with nothing more than more chain shops and chain restaurants.

My family has been here since the 1890's but many have decided to leave Memphis to live in other places such as Hartford, Atlanta, St. Louis and Ft. Worth because there is more culture there, more things to do when you are not working, shopping or eating!! At some point, when Memphis has sold, dispersed or demolished most of it's history it will become a most boring place with no charm, only artificially manufactured charm that has proven to be short lived like Mud Island and the Mid-America Mall.

I implore you to save the Pippin (which should be on thee National Historic Register) and Libertyland. It's the city's job to make it better so that more people will want to go there and spend money on entertainment and have fun, not demolish it. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to go to Downtown to Beale Street or to a basketball game all the time for their entertainment. Please feel free to contact me if you want to discuss this further.

Many Memphians are awaiting your decision. Remember there is no shortage of shopping centers in Memphis (there are probably 25 under construction today) but we have only one Libertyland, when it's gone that part of our culture will be void and it can never be recaptured.

Sincerely,
Joe Montesi
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:05 am
 
when 12-year-old Lacey read her poem live on the air, it was all worthwhile; in fact it had the effect of a magic spell. Even the DJ, one of a notoriously cynical breed, turned around and said, "That just gave me the chills."

Here is Lacey's poem about the closing of Libertyland:

Chaos of Boredom

Vacant lots, empty buildings
For Sale signs
Sad, bored children
Cry and fill the streets
Looking for a thrill,
A party, a place to
Hang out with friends
The scene will be
Set for this chaos
And sadness
Without Libertyland.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - MLK, Jr.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:06 am
 
From: Memphis Black Arts Alliance, Inc. - FireHouse
TO: dedrick.brittenum@memphistn.gov
Cc: To=scott.mccormick@memphistn.gov ; Denise Parkinson ; Jimmie Tucker

Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:47 AM

Subject: Save LibertyLand

Councilman Brittenum Ė First, let me again congratulate you on your appointment to the Council. You and your family have a long and proud history of service to our city. Iím certain youíll continue this tradition.

As you may know I live at 405 Buntyn (Rosí old residence) which is a stoneís throw from the Libertyland/Fairgrounds. I have both personal and professional interests in Saving Libertyland which I wish you will consider in your vote on this matter.

First, from a personal level and as a resident of the immediate area, Iím thrilled to see an interest in the upgrade and redevelopment of the Fairgrounds. Since the old Chicksí stadium was demolished and the fire last? year, there have been no improvements to this important public recreational site since Iíve lived here. My sons briefly attended Fairview Junior High which is a magnificent, but poorly maintained, historic building. My daughterís very first job, at 16, was as a cashier at Libertyland. The skills and confidence she gained in that position are priceless. She was just one of hundreds of young people who were able to learn and earn so that they can be productive contributing members of our community. With all the cutbacks in jobs and services for youth, it is prudent public policy to consider the job and youth development benefit Libertyland has to our city, not to mention the obvious social and economic benefits of having a first class family-oriented amusement park as an easily accessible attraction for residents and tourists.

Now, from a professional perspective. Have you ever attended the Talent shows at the Mid-South Fair, or the Performances on the stages of Libertyland during the summer? If you havenít, you have missed seeing some of the most professional and outstanding YOUNG dancers, singers, mimes, acrobats, musicians, etc. Iíve seen. Now as a Memphis-born New Yorker, whoís been around the performance block a few times--- there and back-- and watched the development of Memphis talent for more than twenty-five years, with all modesty, thatís saying something. The issue isnít that without Libertyland Memphis wonít have this depth and breadth of talent, which I must say was quite diverse and truly represented the make-up of our city. What the talented youth of our city wonít have is a centrally located venue where they can continuously develop their crafts and be compensated for their gifts. As important, folks of all ages, incomes and backgrounds wonít have a centrally located venue where they can see, support and be inspired by their talents!!!

Itís tragic enough that many of the parents of these youth must travel significant distances to work in the warehouses that surround our city. Must we send our youth down this same long nowhere road.

I urge you first vote to SAVE LIBERTYLAND. Then, help sway your colleagues to find creative ways to incorporate the virtues and values of Libertyland into the redevelopment scheme thatís been proposed. Since Libertylandís board is willing to dissolve it, why not aggressively seek and support other private entities that wish to save it and develop it. I know you can help find a way. Just do it.


FIREHOUSE COMMUNITY ARTS CENTER
bennie nelson west Ė Executive Director
948-9522 (office) 649-0413 (cell)
memphisarts@bellsouth.net
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:07 am
 
From: "Memphis Black Arts Alliance, Inc. - FireHouse"

To: "'Nick A. Davis - Detour Memphis'"

Subject: RE: Save Libertyland Online Petition

Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 00:18:20 -0600

Thanx for organizing this. Aside from the fact that itís an easily accessible attraction for folks through out the Greater Memphis area, it will be a travesty that the 300-500 young folks who work there will not have vital entry-level summer employment. Please keep me posted.

FIREHOUSE COMMUNITY ARTS CENTER
bennie nelson west Ė Executive Director
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:08 am
 
From: Jim & Marlowe Futrell
To: Steven Parkinson
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Jim Futrell

Hi Denise -

Nice speaking to you today. Glad to hear there are so many people committed to seeing Libertyland realize its true potential. Hop the following letter helps. Please feel free to use it as you see fit (an editorial in the Commercial Appeal would be nice).

Jim Futrell
Historian
National Amusement Park Historical Association

To the Leaders of Memphis -

Last year, I had the opportunity to visit Memphis for the first time. Given my experience in the past with visits to other Southern cities, I admittedly did not have high expectations. Many of them seem to have lost sight about what makes a city great and have turned their back on their urban heart in favor of unchecked suburban sprawl.

But Memphis was different. I was totally blown away by my experience. Unlike other southern cities, its downtown was alive and I discovered something new around every corner. From the elegance and waterfowl of the Peabody Hotel, where I stayed, to the excitement of Beale Street, to the vibrant nightlife scene, to the moving National Civil Rights Museum, I was never at a loss for things to impress me.

I visited Redbird Stadium, an amazing anchor of the downtown, rode the delightful street cars, reveled in the hometown pride felt in attracting the Grizzlies to Memphis and marveled at the numerous new housing projects springing up through the Central Business District.

I even had the opportunity to visit the wonderful Memphis Zoo and was taken aback at how it surpassed those I have visited in many significantly larger cities. I could not help but notice the signs throughout the zoo stating ďTogether, we can build the greatest zoo in the world.Ē

I left Memphis feeling that it was a city working together to build a world class community and feeling a touch of jealousy that Pittsburgh, my hometown, did not seem to have the same shared vision. I looked forward to sharing the city with my family on a return visit.

That is why I am so baffled by the situation surrounding Libertyland. Over the past few months, I have watched as the citizens of Houston have agonized over the loss of Astroworld, their beloved theme park which fell victim to rising land values. This does not have to be the case in Memphis. While Libertyland has struggled in recent years, when I visited, I could see the potential of the place with its tall trees and charming buildings. But I could also see that the park has not had the opportunity to thrive in recent years. The Revolution desperately needed a coat of paint and the new rides looked like they were borrowed from a carnival. For any amusement park to thrive, it needs stability, a committed management team and resources to continually make improvements. From what I have seen and heard, while management has tried, they have been stymied by the lack of a long term lease and limited resources to succeed.

I can only image what Libertyland could be if given the resources to thrive rather than being left to hang out to dry. In addition to the aforementioned characteristics (the trees and buildings) that many amusement parks would pay dearly to have, Libertyland is blessed with two other critical assets that links the place the generations of Memphians and could be powerful marketing points.

1) The hand carved carousel is one of the last and finest examples of a departed American art form. Throughout the country, communities have banded together to acquire, restore and operate antique carousels as tourist draws and Memphis should be no different.

2) Just as important is the Zippin Pippin. Not only was it Elvis Presleyís favorite ride, but it represents one of the last examples of roller coaster technology from what is known as the Golden Age. Although its roots date back further, Zippin Pippin was erected in its present form in 1923, making it the fifth oldest operating roller coaster in the country. Its designer, John Miller, was the most prolific roller coaster designer in history, designing and building hundreds of rides during the 1920s. He invented the means to ďlockĒ a roller coaster train to the track resulting in the high speed thrillers found today. Its loss would be tragic.

Further supporting the cause for preserving Libertyland is the utter lack of competition in the region. A resident of Memphis would have to travel to Hot Springs, AR; Bowling Green, KY; St. Louis or Pigeon Forge, TN, to visit another major amusement park.

Furthermore, many other similarly sized markets have successfully supported comparably sized amusement parks for decades. These include Hartford, CT (Lake Compounce); Louisville, KY (Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom); Grand Rapids, MI (Michiganís Adventure), Buffalo (Martinís Fantasy Island) and Rochester, NY (Seabreeze Amusement Park), and Oklahoma City, OK (Frontier City). It is also important to note that along with Martinís Fantasy Island and Seabreeze, Buffalo and Rochester are the key markets for Six Flags Darien Lake in upstate New York. People will support an amusement park if given a compelling reason to do so.

As an amusement park historian, I have seen dozens of communities throughout the country look fondly back to the days when an amusement park was part of their social fabric and wish that they could again recapture those days.

I have seen how local leaders in Nashville have scrambled to replace Opryland since that theme park was demolished. Many of them are willing to invest millions in public funds to see another major amusement park open in the community.

It does not have to be this way in Memphis. As you have demonstrated, Memphis has the commitment and vision to build a world class community. It is imperative that Libertyland be looked upon as an asset rather than a liability and it be given the resources it needs to compete. It could be as simple as turning operations over to a company experienced in operating amusement parks and giving them the stability of a long term lease or even ownership. I urge the leadership of your fine community to make a commitment to seeing Libertyland thrive and grow so that if can be as valued an asset as Graceland, the Peabody, Beale Street, the zoo, the Civil Rights Museum and the Grizzlies.

Sincerely,

Jim Futrell
Historian
National Amusement Park Historical Association
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:10 am
 
We have been following this closure since June, thanks to a NCA member, Cheryl Dare. I hope Cheryl can join your efforts, she is really not up to forming a group on her own.

The NCA will do anything we can to help you out. Our position is topreserve the carousel and usually that means to retain it in its original city. Please, note, I didn't say location. Quite often rescued carousels end up in parks, or even downtown locations, in order to preserve them.

The alternative, which may also be happening, is the vultures calledauctioneers land on the owner promising them big bucks to basicallyauction off the figures. They usually use the wording, we will sell the carousel intact but once ownership changes hands, the machine is indeed broken up.

The Memphis Libertyland Dentzel-Mueller has a quite a few rare and coveted figures. The collectors will hound everyone to get an opportunity to buy them. However, by definition a carousel is a full operational machine, not individual figures.

We were recently involved with the saving the B & B Carousel, the last operating carousel at Coney Island. This is the birth place of theindustry, so to speak. We worked with a support group that got the mayor's attention and actually appraised the carousel and help them formulate a price to offer. It was sold 24 hours before the beginning of the auction.

I do hope this won't be the method we have to go through to save the Memphis machine. Be sure to let me know how we can help.

Bette Largent
Pres, NCA
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:11 am
 
From: FROM: Amala Barnett"
Subject: save libertyland
To: nickdavis@detourmemphis.com


i don't know what i would do if the pippin were not inmy life. i haven't lived in memphis for 20 years andstill run to libertyland to catch a couple of rideswhenever i have the chance.i had heard they might try to 'move' libertylandsomewhere else, out east? ugh. let me sign a petition.thanks.LOKAH SAMASTAH SUKHINOH BHAVANTU
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:12 am
 
From: "k M"

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 22:08:52 -0500

Subject: Save Libertyland

I was wondering what exactly the plans are for the fairgrounds? I don't want to see Libertyland go at all!!!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
 
Jack, Alisa...I am one of those people who came to these threads late and actually read 'em through.
I don't care one way or the other about the Carousel or the Pippin, let alone the crap that surrounds them.
I moved to Memphis when I was 22, so I don't have the kid POV that many of y'all can recall.
But I do have memories from my childhood, and none of those I treasure are of amusement parks.
That said, I'm willing to donate time / money (not a huge amount or anything) / energy / headspace to reasonably non-shady preservation efforts.
Just because I don't care about them doesn't mean I don't care about the people that do - and unlike the people who are vocal about saving the whole damn park, I get a vibe of "really care" and not "I'm a cool community activist" from their commentary.

And I find it interesting that 700 jobs became 600 jobs became 300-500 jobs.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:29 am
 
Thanks for posting the supportive posts from the NCA and others who obviously care about saving the Pippin and the Carousel. They can be helpful for anyone who is dedicated to working to preserve them somehow.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:33 am
 
Wire,
My direct family has been here in Memphis for well over a hundred years. I've always been pretty passionate about Memphis preservation, and am also somewhat of a photograher...I photograph a lot of "vanishing Memphis." And let me tell you, there's a lot. I'm kind of old, so have been through the building and tearing down of the Mid America Mall, remember downtown in it's last heyday when I was a child, remember things like ice skating at the Coliseum, when the bus lane went through the zoo, etc. My childhood home on Autumn Avenue (built during Reconstruction) was torn down for the (nonexistent) 1-40 leg. It's a fact of life here that they tear things down. Look at Vance Ave....hell, look at Union Ave. which one of the letters above referenced. I'm the biggest freaking Memphis preservationist around.
It's just so tiresome, and SO Memphis, to have this kind of split take place. Basically, the people who've replied to this thread are all for saving the most important things at Libertyland, the Carousel and the Pippin. Even Dee's letters illustrate that the people interested are most interested in those things. (Except that weird poem...not the kids, the other one.) But no, it has to become some kind of fracteous "you're either with us or against us" thing that has torn down much of historical Memphis!

Anyway...
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:37 am
 
"you're either with us or against us"

Dee is also gearing up for a pre-emptive strike, targeting those who would use WFS (or, Weapons of Foul Smell). Sound familiar? Will Dee be portrayed as Bush in her movie?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:38 am
 
From: DTRAIN
To: the kids
Sent: today
Subject: Kiss pinball machine vs. getting your carjacked at CarjackLand

Please by the kids a KISS pinball machine. Everybody LOVES KISS. If they don't , then send them to Carjack Land cause they might enjoy some crime better.Thanks CarjackLand!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:40 am
 
Yeah, I was trying to be nice but not bringing up that "scary loner" poem. "I had my thrill at your cost"???? Sounds like a serial killer to me.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:48 am
 
Yeah, puhleeze leave that one out when you present your petition to the powers that be. I swear, that one won't help you.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:55 am
 
I will quit calling it the "Zippin' Pippin" from this point forward, only to be referring to it by it's pre-Travestyland name, "The Pippin"
http://rcdb.com/id253.htm

Fiery, the Carousel dates back to 1909 in Chicago.
http://history.amusement-parks.com/tennlib.htm
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 2:59 am
 
Ok, so the Pink Palace is c. 1920-1929. Poor guy went broke before he could finish it and had to give it to the City. This is more like something Gatsby would have done by the minute...some grand, over the top carousel on the front lawn he can barely afford? Love it.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:27 am
 
http://www.napha.org/faq.html

WORLD'S OLDEST OPERATING ROLLER COASTERS
In operation at same location

1. Leap-the-Dips, Lakemont Park, Altoona, PA 1902
2. Scenic Railway, Melbourne, Australia 1912
3. Rutschbanen, Tivoli, Copenhagen, Denmark 1914
4. tie Jack Rabbit, Sea Breeze Park, Rochester, NY 1920
4. tie Scenic Railway, Dreamland, Margate, UK 1920
6. tie Jack Rabbit, Kennywood, West Mifflin, PA 1921
6. tie Roller Coaster, Lagoon, Farmington, UT 1921
8. tie Big Dipper, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Blackpool, UK 1923
8. tie Zippin Pippin, Libertyland, Memphis, TN 1923*
10. Giant Dipper, Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk, Santa Cruz, CA 1924
11. tie Big Dipper, Geauga Lake, Aurora, OH 1925
11. tie Giant Dipper, Belmont Park, San Diego, CA 1925
13. tie Wildcat, Lake Compounce, Bristol, CT 1927
13. tie Giant Coaster, Arnolds Park, Arnolds Park, IA 1927
13. tie Cyclone, Astroland - Coney Island, Brooklyn, NY 1927
13. tie Racer, Kennywood, West Mifflin, PA 1927
17. Little Dipper, Playland, Rye, NJ 1928
18. Dragon Coaster, Playland, Rye, NY 1929

* Operated at another location prior to 1923.

This would go a lot further than some weird assed poem.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:44 am
 
Also, according to this link, it is the oldest operating roller coaster in the U.S. (however, they are basing it off original construction...).

http://www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/9706/roller.coasters/records.ht ml

I have yet to find a favorable review of the Revolution...
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:48 am
 
So, anyway, yeah.

KEEP THE PIPPIN AND CAROUSEL,
ALL THE REST CAN GO TO HELL!!!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:49 am
 
THAT, my friends, is poetry.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:51 am
 
Where was the original location? Move it back!!!!

The Revolution sucked. Those corkscrews were half-rate. The Pippin was much preferred.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 3:54 am
 
Original location of The Pippin was Chicago. I'm kind of unsure of the time now, though, because one source lists 1909 and the other 1915. Guess who is calling LINC tomorrow?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 4:05 am
 
That was a pretty awesome Carousel link, too. If people were worried about these truly beautiful and historic things, well...

Hey, I do remember the Old Mill from when I was really little. Mom had lots of stories about it...some of which included rats.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 4:40 am
 
I like that--Passout Records!

Add the Kiss pinball game to the skeeball palace Jack is building inside the food shack at the Summer Drive-In. I already proposed moving the pippin over there months ago (and free rides for any drive-in admission). Put the carousel at the zoo where it belongs and someone give crzy girl a straight jacket cuz we got a really nice sports park coming to mid-town soon.

Is that really almost a dozen people from out of town writing interested in saving Libertyland? Have 'em buy the place. Oh, wait, they don't want to...(And before you tell me you have 2 buyers already, get a real offer--not $120,000 a year to lease. My god, the condos across the street sell for a minimum of $120,000 a piece & your saviours want to lease the WHOLE park for $120 g's a year!? Carpetbaggers, indeed!)

Jobs program? What a joke. These are underpaid, less than minimum wage, dead end jobs. And who has on their resume that they got their entertainment career started at Libertyland (besides d-train)?

And when running a grassroots program, don't insult the Mayor (who, like it or not, controls the destiny of your desired park) at every possible opportunity in a public forum.

Anybody got an Elton John pinball machine to go with the Kiss one?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 4:51 am
 
What is the Old Mill?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 7:04 am
 
Thanks Sherman!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:09 pm
 
I don't know if I like the idea of the carosel going in at the Pink Palace, unless it was not on the front lawn. And my problem with the zoo is space.
The zoo has very limited space and has done a brilliant job with what thet have to creat a home for the animals, and I don't want to see that taken away.

Maybe there could be some deal worked out with the guy who just took over graceland. He planns on revamping the area, why not have an attraction there for the kids. They could even set up a way to educate people about the history of the area using the rides, and make people want to discover the treasures of our city. I think memphis needs to become more creative in their development and not remain a stick in the mud.

We need to bring things to the center of the city that will attract young people who want to live here, not tourists.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:13 pm
 
Graceland has NO interest in the pippin. It's only proper home is at the drive-in. http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/local/article/0,2845,MCA_25340_463 8579,00.html
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:31 pm
 
I really don't think the zoo or Pinkpalace will either.

What about Mud island? Is there anything there these days?
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:41 pm
 
One million doesn't seem like much money for the Carousel, really. Perhaps effort could be put toward trying to find a corporate sponsor to buy the Pippin and Carousel? (hey Fred Smith!)

Fiery, Old Mills...
Old Mills
Also called the Tunnel of Love, riders travel down dark passageways in boats.
Examples:
Lake Winnepesaukah, Rossville, GA (only remaining ride with a mill chute drop at the end)
Playland, Rye, NY
Kennywood, West Mifflin, PA
Iowa State Fair, Des Moines, IA
Kansas State Fair, Hutchinson, KS
Minnesota State Fair, St. Paul, MN
Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Blackpool, UK
Pleasureland, Southport, UK
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:44 pm
 
I thought Mudd Island would be PERFECT for both these things eons ago. Why don't they just put 'em there. How cool would it be to ride the rollercoatser in the middle of the Mississippi?! CRAZINGS! Much better than lookin at McDonalds on East Parkway orwhatever Street that is I tells ya!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 6:57 pm
 
Where was it? There was a scary Tunnel of Love in that Hitchcock movie Shadow of a Doubt or wait, maybe it was Strangers on a Train?

I guess I'd like to see the carousel at the Pink Palace before another smelly molasses machine or whatever they used to have at the Crafts Fair.

I do like the Pippin at the drive in and BOTH at Mud Island. There would be awesome sunset rides for the Pippin in either place.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 7:15 pm
 
It was at the Fairgrounds. At the end they had an animatron donkey that kicked out at you and made a loud noise. Scared me to death, but I was very little.
PP Crafts Fair is now held at Audubon Park!
Pippin would be awesome on Mud Island. (hey Justin Timberlake!)
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 7:22 pm
 
I vaguely recall that. I remember more riding the little boats with the brass bells at the zoo. Ah, see, I haven't gone to that fair in eons! I used to be forced to go as a kid, but now I'd die to go back in time to 1973 and pick up some cool silver jewelry. I have a couple of rings my dad bought for my stepmom and people still comment on them today.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 9:58 pm
 
Original location of The Pippin was Chicago. I'm kind of unsure of the time now, though, because one source lists 1909 and the other 1915. Guess who is calling LINC tomorrow?

JackStands, Did you call LINC yet? I seem to remember reading that the original location of the Zippin Pippin was at East End Amusement park... which where Overton Square is now.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 10:10 pm
 
The neighborhood I lived in last in Memphis right behind OS, South of the park was called East End in all the realtor books. I always wondered were that came from. I'd give anything for my grandmother to still be living right now. She could tell us all about everything in Midtown from 1925-whenever.
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 10:35 pm
 
Hemant, I'm going to the Memphis room tomorrow at the Main Library to get the scoop. Also, hoping to go to the Ornamental Metal Meuseum for funzies!
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 10:52 pm
 
Wow....I just slogged through this stuff.....
What if I just want to see the Pippin and the merry go round saved and don't care about the rest of it, can I still come out and see Jeff and Ross on Sunday?
Just askin.......
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 11:08 pm
 
Just askin.......
Me too...
Posted: Apr 21, 2006 11:16 pm
 
I don't see why not.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 9:48 pm
 
I don't really want to get into this, but I can't really help myself. I have a lot of great memories of Libertyland. If I could snap my fingers and make Libertyland a safe, clean, and profitable amusement park like it was when I was a child, I'd do it. That, however, is a pipe dream. So the realistic question is do I want it to remain in its current condition, or should it be torn down to build something new/better? Well I personally hate seeing things go. It's reassuring to me to see Libertyland there when I drive by. Even as it is now it has an overwhelming character that's part of what makes Memphis the City it is.
That being said, I know that that's all sentimental bullshit on my part. Furthermore, reading all of the comments made by dee, I want to distance myself from her and her group of "activists" as much as humanly possible.
I agree that if there is any way to do it the Pippin and the Carousel should be saved, but if they aren't I'm not gonna lose any sleep over that either.
I recognize that the Pippin has some historical significance. The carousel is another story. Don't get me wrong. It's nice, and it would look very nice in front of the Pink Palace. The only real historic significance I can find is that it's the carousel from Libertyland, and if you're tearing down Libertyland, fuck it. Dee has gone so far as to say itís a carousel ďthe like of which exists nowhere in the world.Ē Well, thatís bullshit too. Check this out.

http://carousels.com/mgrlist.php

Theyíre fuckiní everywhere. Since they arenít all that special perhaps your children can find some way to enjoy the one at the Memphis Zoo. Itís got pandaís on it.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 9:57 pm
 
See Jack's link on the Carousel:
http://history.amusement-parks.com/tennlib.htm

It really is an amazing example of an "art-form" that's not practiced anymore.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 10:02 pm
 
Scott, I'm just glad to get more Memphians talking about what they want.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 10:58 pm
 
They should replace it all with the Antenna Club.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 11:35 pm
 
The major sections of the RFP document:

Overview:

ē Sale of 1909 vintage Grand Carousel ride. This carousel is a three-row, 32-jumper, 16 stander, and two-chariot carousel. It is unique because it is now the only hand-carved, three-row, all horse carousel manufactured by Dentzel still in existence.

Administrative:

ē Mid-South Fair Inc. Board of Directors

Current Environment:

ē The Dentzel Carousel is currently being used and is in excellent condition. It is located at 940 Early Maxwell Blvd. Memphis, TN 38104

Functional Requirements:
ē The owner is interested in receiving RFPís for the sale and removal of the carousel.
Posted: Apr 22, 2006 11:37 pm
 
And who is "the owner"?
Posted: Apr 23, 2006 4:41 am
 
It really is an amazing example of an "art-form" that's not practiced anymore.

Don't get me wrong. What you say about the carousel is true. I just remember a carousel from my childhood that isn't THAT far from here, and much nicer than the one at Libertyland. Namely this one: Dentzel menagerie 2 row stationary machine circa 1892, Highland Park, Meridian, MS.
Now to find the info on the Meridian carousel I had to go to all of the trouble of typing "merry-go-round" into the search engine of Google, and the Carousels.com page was the first thing to come up. There's over a hundred carousels listed on that page throughout the U.S. and Canada, and that list is incomplete as it doesn't list THE OTHER CAROUSEL HERE IN MEMPHIS. Plus, in also doesn't include
Posted: Apr 23, 2006 4:48 am
 
(Sorry, I was interupted...where was I? Oh yeah.)

Plus, it also doesn't include THE REST OF THE WORLD. I know I personally have ridden a carousel in Germany within the past 3 years. The carousel at Libertyland is very nice, but as for it's historical significance...not much.
Besides, if I'm not mistaken, it's up for sale. I'm sure whoever doles out the money for that kind of thing is gonna have it up and running somewhere. Maybe it's gonna go to a town where the children don't ALREADY HAVE ONE.
Posted: Apr 23, 2006 8:02 pm
 
I'm an artist who used to do some antique carousel work before my fantasy art career took off.

The census is out of date...the Tennessee listings included. The Dollywood Dentzel has been sold back to its historic location in Pennsylvania, and a new plastic carousel by Chance Morgan has taken its place. The reason that the Zoo carousel is not on that list is that it is new, carved by the Carousel Works of Ohio. They have built a number of similar machines for zoos all over the US. Libertyland's Dentzel is the only antique carousel left in Tennessee. The Chattanooga machine has an antique frame but all the figures are new and carved by members of the community. Got to see that in January. It's really nice, but not antique.
The Libertyland carousel is actually probably in danger of being broken up. If the minimum sale price isn't met, my guess is it'll be offered piecemeal in the Norton auction for the rest of the rides. There are very few large antique carousels left, actually. The demand for the figures as collectibles led to auction after auction in the 80's and early 90's. Norton auctioneers presided over the breakup of quite a few of them.
Though there are some Dentzel carousels left across the country, the Libertyland carousel does have some unique figures including the only antique carousel pegasus I know of. That will probably be the highest prices figure if the machine is broken up.
The Meridian carousel Scott mentions is extra special because it is one of only 3 antiques that still has original factory paint.
A number of towns have used their antique carousels as the centerpiece of downtown revivals or as focal points for city parks. There is no reason for Memphis to let this treasure go. Just because the collectors didn't manage to get the last 60 or so antique park sized machines doesn't mean they're not special.
One carousel I worked on (I did all the paintings) that is a really great example of an antique carousel being used as an anchor feature of a new city park is at Chase Palm Park in Santa Barbara, California. Google it..there are some pictures and stuff online. The park is used for weddings and art fairs and all sorts of events. The fact that the carousel is vintage is used extensively in Santa Barbara's tourist literature..it adds something extra to the destination that a new plastic ride just can't.
The Pippin is most likely doomed, the carousel doesn't have to be. It could be an asset that could be used for the benefit of the community long term.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 3:12 am
 
If indeed I had a child and I were to put them on the Pippin, I would first carefully wrap them in bubble wrap and a helmet before allowing them to ride.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 4:09 am
 
Horsefeathers, may I have your permission to copy this and take it with us to the meeting w/the city attorney Tues. morning?

We are calling for an injunction to stop the sale on the grounds that no title has been produced by MS Fair and evidence uncovered by our legal team that Parks Comm. owns the Grand Carousel.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 1:25 pm
 
I don't know about the rest of this but.....THE PUPPY DOGS ROCK!
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 3:30 pm
 
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - MLK, Jr.<--I remember shouting these words on each and every breath-taking log ride descent. Afterwards, I would slap the Rev. Abernathy hi-five and he'd rock the boat xtra hard and get me even wetter rendering my corn dog inedible... Aw Rev Abs!! you so craay!!

Man, we used to have some Liberty Bell ringin' Good Times there!

btw Jessie Jackson is a skee-ball fiend.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 3:54 pm
 
Dee, if it helps I can give you some specific examples of reuse of coasters and carousels as part of new city developments that could be used to illustrate to the city why they would want to keep these two rides. I think that saving at least one of them is probably the most achievable goal right now. Maybe it'll help to see what some other cities across the country have done .
I'm kinda puzzled as to why the design team chosen to redo the fair site seems to be kind of "behind the curve" when it comes to reuse. Many firms would have started with the carousel to mark what once was there to carry the memory of old use into the future.
I mentioned Chase Palm Park in Santa Barbara. In addition to the carousel, it has gardens, walk ways, outdoor and indoor event venues that can be rented to generate revenue for the city, lots of art and sculptures, a skate park, themed playground areas including a shipwreck playground with sculptural whales in the sand that blow water on hot days, a promenade suitable for all kinds of events. It serves the dual purpose of serving the locals and attracting tourists. Many of the sculptures and features were donated.

San Diego used the old Belmont Park coaster as the anchor for a waterfront development. The coaster buffs in the area rallied and got a total restoration done. A handfull of rides were brought in, it's sort of a token reminder of the old Belmont park that was once there. There are restaurants and shopping there now as well.

Riverfront Park in Spokane features the city's carousel, a few other rides, an Imax theater, stages, plagrounds, gardens, walkways. It's another multi use area that serves a lot of functions.

Many cities put their carousels in the Children's museums, like San Fransisco which bought back the carousel after it was gone for several decades. It's in the playground area on the roof of the museum downtown.
The city has several other antiques, one in the zoo and one in Golden Gate Park in the children's playground.
Philadelphia was given a Dentzel similar to the Libertyland machine by the Smithsonian Institute and it's being restored to be set up in the "Please Touch" children's museum as part of an expansion.

The city of New York has a number of carousels in its city parks, they're all by different makers from different eras. The Flushing Meadows carousel was moved there for the World's Fair in the sixties, and it's the only remaining ride, but it serves as a connector between the various uses for the land. Central Park has a huge antique carousel.

I could go on and on about reuse of antique carousels in newer developments...everything from malls to city parks to museums.
Now here's what happens when they're broken up and then people regret it...
Many cities or donors on their behalf have paid millions of dollars and spent thousands of hours trying to recreate lost carousels. Elmira, New York for one. Here's their site: www.gco.com/eldridge/carousel.html


Repopulating an empty carousel frame is a heck of a lot more expensive and time consuming than saving the carousel in the first place...though the volunteer carvers often do a wonderful job and the community spirit generated over the decade it usually takes to make the new horses is a pretty cool thing all its own. But the fact is, there are cities and organizations out there that spend huge amounts of money trying to create what Memphis already has and stands to lose. It'll be especially hard to rebuild the Libertyland carousel if it's parted out because the trim is extra fancy and collectible in its own right so you'd be dealing with a mechanism that is totally stripped if the ride goes to auction and isn't bought as a unit.

Anyhow, hope this helps.
If you need to know my identity or more info to use lemme know and I'll connect you to my email address.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 5:13 pm
 
Good Lord. Will somebody please tell me why it's so damn important to memoralize a rollercoaster or an amusement park just because Elvis waddled his fat ass all over it? What is this obsession to make every building he looked sideways at a cultural landmark? Who gives a shit? Put a fucking shrine up of Rufus Thomas, bitches.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 5:24 pm
 
Just an additional note..when it comes to funding community carousels the most commonly used method is the "adopt a horse" plan, where donors in effect donate the purchase or restoration costs of the horse of their choice, generally in exchange for naming rights and a sign of some sort in the carousel building. This is probably how the zoo carousel was paid for. Ride tickets pay for upkeep. If the city decided to buy the carousel if they can't prove ownership, this is one way the money could be recovered so the taxpayers don't pay for it. The Elmira website I linked to before has a gallery of finished horses and either the sponsor or the note that they're available for adoption.
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 6:37 pm
 
Finally somebody with a BRAIN! (besides Jack Stands & Sherman of course!)
Posted: Apr 24, 2006 9:24 pm
 
Remember when the old guy got crunched up in the carousel inner workings back in the day? Or was this just in some horror movie I am thinking of?
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 12:41 am
 
Thanks for this valuable information. Coincidentally there was an article picked up off the AP in today's local daily that talks about Little Rock's one-of-a-kind carousel that is finally finished being restored -- took 15 years -- and coming back as a centerpiece of a park there. Even Ft. Smith, Ark., is doing a "retro/vintage" ferris wheel as part of a river park.

If you wish to add any details for the meeting tomorrow, please visit the website www.DetourMemphis.com and contact either me or Nick (he hosts our blog and online petition) and I do appreciate the advice/information, I'll take what you've posted w/me!!!
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 1:54 pm
 
June 21, 2006
10:30 a.m. EST
Elvis' Favorite Park
Memphis, Tennessee Amusement Park Brochure Available Soon!

---Auction date
From website for Norton Auctioneers out of Michigan
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 2:08 pm
 
Or was this just in some horror movie I am thinking of?

Strangers on a Train?
Actually, I do think that happened to some guy here.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 3:51 pm
 
Yep--that did happen in Strangers on a Train--that is 2 references to that movie in this ridiculous thread. But I really think there was a time where an elderly carousel worker climbed into the inner-workings and the ride started running...and well, you can imagine.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 7:10 pm
 
Speaking of the Carousel, some good news: As of today, Memphis city attorney Sara Hall met with Save Libertyland's Steve Mulroy and other members who also attended the Parks committee meeting on Fairgrounds re-development.

Ms. Hall stated (to the media as well) that the Carousel and Zippin Pippin are arguably the property of the City of Memphis Parks system and that the city will file an injunction to prevent any sale or transfer of these assets.

At the last minute, an elderly Midtowner produced records that seem to indicate the same arrangement re: Libertyland. That is: Memphis owns land and equipment, MidSouth Fair operates park and leases land and equipment.

Yay!
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 7:14 pm
 
That's awesome! So we can keep the Pippin and the Carousel and mow the rest of that crap down with bulldozers!

Yay, indeed!
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 7:26 pm
 
Glad to see something made you happy!

A lot of people can be a little happier now.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 7:30 pm
 
I'll be even happier when they sell the "frontier village log cabins" to International Paper.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 7:46 pm
 
I think I'm starting to get your schtick! good one.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:00 pm
 
That is great news! Now when if/when we sell the carousel, we got a nice down payment on the sports park & a stipend to help pay for the new jobs keeping up the park. Good work, Dee! The overburdened taxpayers of Memphis needed that break! (Don't forget to thank the mayor for hiring such a good lawyer--you don't want to seem ungrateful). If we do actually get a million for the carousel, I say Dee gets a bench or a high jump pit or something named after her. We appreciate ya!
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:08 pm
 
They could use those cabins for Employee Training and Team Building.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:41 pm
 
We'll find enough sponsors for each horse and Pegasus on the Grand Carousel to ensure it is never sold away from the City of Memphis, Shermie.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:47 pm
 
Cool! That sponsor money will come in handy for the new park. You Da Man, Dee-ee!
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:53 pm
 
That's what I call a win-win! The sponsors keep the carousel in the city and the taxpayers save a million bucks on the new park.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 8:57 pm
 
I may actually come buy a record from you. Have you got any Sandy Denny?
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 9:06 pm
 
No, I got some Grifters and some Hot Monkey.

Jack, speaking of skee-ball...any chance we could re-name the Skeeball thing you're building at the drive-in after Rufus Thomas? Now that's one guy who I miss a lot. I think Rufus deserves more than a parking spot & that KFC-looking thing on Beale St.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 9:10 pm
 
Sherman.
Yes. Yes, indeed. We could move the mini-Pippin kid's-size coaster out there, too. Name it the "Johnnie Taylor Cheaper to Keep Her Express"...
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 9:24 pm
 
Now when if/when we sell the carousel, we got a nice down payment on the sports park

Not if it was sold through Norton - if they did manage to get a million for it, the city (or whoever eventually manages to prove ownership) would clear less than half a million after Norton's fees and expenses. Norton's in business to help Norton, and nobody else. The seller ends up with chump change.

Good news about the city attorney getting involved at last.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 9:30 pm
 
Thank You. Rufus deserves a permanant, huge enshrinement. The more I read about Save Libertyland, the more I hate Elvis.

Curious.
Posted: Apr 25, 2006 9:42 pm
 
Doc, even the spokesperson for the MidSouth Fair said just a week ago that they'd prefer to sell the park to a single entity rather than pay the auctioneer -- Norton, out of Michigan: now who's the carpetbagger here?

The thing is that when that statement was made the auction was already contracted for w/Norton. Now it's on their website.

The 2 CEOs who have made a career of re-habbing defunct parks are still standing by, watching the Memphis clown-show, willing to make an offer.
Posted: May 2, 2006 6:50 pm
 
Hi there everybody who gives a hoot about the one-and-only Grand Carousel!

We just came from the meeting downtown. The Memphis City Parks Commission plus City Council Parks committee, administration and city attorney plus local media and our documentary filmmaker were all there. The city attorney is committed to stopping any planned sale of the Carousel and Zippin Pippin rollercoaster, even if it means going to court (and SOON.) We made our case that Libertyland's "improvements" meaning all rides and attractions are also under the same lease agreement and thus belong to the City of Memphis/Shelby County as well.

The City Council is finally weighing in and passed several motions relating to gaining control of the assets and accessing financial info.

The MidSouth Fair has basically claimed "abandonment" by the City of Memphis and is asserting what amounts to "squatters' rights" to the whole kaboodle!

Whereupon the city attorney pointed out that to take such a position already implies ownership by City/County gov't.

Please keep us in your prayers and if you feel inspired, letters, e-mail and calls downtown can't hurt! Or how about simply calling the MidSouth Fair office at (901) 274-8800 and beseeching them to move foward w/release of pertinent records and allow immediate negotiations for a private management company to step in. They need to let go of this losing battle and do what's right for Memphis.
Posted: May 13, 2006 4:28 am
 
i cant believe i just read this whole fucking thread.
Posted: May 13, 2006 4:34 am
 
I'm sorry, Fern. I really am. This is only half of it, too. The first part was the "Libertyland, a friendly debate" thread. Truly the best of the worst of the goner board.

In other news, I bought two ferns for the yard today. I really did.
Posted: Jun 6, 2006 11:25 pm
 
Pippin, carousel off market

Pippin, carousel off market
Ownership issue cited; sale of other Libertyland rides still on

By David Williams
June 6, 2006

Libertyland's Zippin Pippin and Grand Carousel are off the market -- at least for now.

Mid-South Fair officials have halted plans to sell the amusement park's historic attractions after having their ownership claims challenged by the city.

But fair general manager Billy Orr said Monday that an auction of other rides, such as the Revolution and Old Hickory Log Flume, remains on schedule for June 21.

Halting that auction is the next goal of the grass-roots group Save Libertyland, which previously was successful in pushing the city to make an ownership claim on the Pippin and the carousel, both of which predate the park's mid-1970s opening.

"There looks to be some authority -- some pretty strong legal authority, in our opinion -- that the city owns the post-'74 rides," said Save Libertyland's Steven Mulroy.

Save Libertyland leaders will make that case today when they appear before the City Council parks committee.

"We're going to be talking about different legal actions the city can take to assert its post-'74 ride ownership interests," Mulroy said. "We think it's time-sensitive because the auction is scheduled for June 21."

The Pippin originally was part of the auction, and as of Monday afternoon remained among the rides listed on the Web site of Norton Auctioneers, the Michigan-based company handling the auction.

But Orr said the Pippin will stay put for now, as will the Carousel, which fair officials had planned to sell separately by a request-for-proposal process.

An amusement park historian said the carousel could bring $1 million. But fair officials, seeking a local buyer, received "hardly any interest," Orr said, likely because of the ownership uncertainty.

The long-term future remains uncertain for the hand-carved, all-horse carousel, which was built in 1909.

"It may stay here, I'm not sure," Orr said.

Unlike the carousel, there were doubts about whether the Pippin -- Elvis' favorite and billed as the country's second-oldest operating wooden coaster -- could be relocated.

Now, both attractions will remain on the Mid-South Fairgrounds while the ownership debate continues.

Orr said there was another reason the Pippin and carousel were pulled off the market: "The fair board, they just don't want to do anything that people don't want them to do on those two particular things, because they're just kind of part of Memphis."

Fair officials previously said they had no doubt about their ownership claims. But Orr said Monday that fair board members are "leaving it up to the attorneys to decide on that."

Asked if the city might attempt to block the June 21 auction, Orr said, "The board's not expecting anything like that."

City Atty. Sara Hall's office referred questions to Park Services director Bob Fouche. An attempt to reach him Monday afternoon was unsuccessful.

-- David Williams: 529-2310

--------------------

Libertyland auction

What: Auction of Libertyland rides and equipment, with the exception of the Grand Carousel and Zippin Pippin.

When: 10:30 a.m., June 21

Where: Libertyland, Mid-South Fairgrounds

For more info:

nortonauctioneers.com
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 12:13 am
 
Orr said there was another reason the Pippin and carousel were pulled off the market: "The fair board, they just don't want to do anything that people don't want them to do on those two particular things, because they're just kind of part of Memphis."
Thank you Fair Board. You have my full support.
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 12:30 am
 
What a ride! Today at the Parks Committee meeting, the City Council voted to instruct administration to terminate MidSouth Fair's lease on Libertyland and have the city attorney take any necessary action to stop the auction of the rides. The language of the contract is clear when it describes the Fair as leasing both the property and the equipment.

The MidSouth Fair needs to let us have our park back. It is now a public safety issue, in that Libertyland has been vandalized and broken into three times in the past week. Crime in the surrounding Cooper-Young area is increasing. It makes no sense to have a 160-acre vacant lot adjacent to residential and business communities, which is what we have right now.
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 2:28 am
 
Put the National Guard on the fence and if anyone breaks in, keep 'em there.
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 7:04 am
 
Libertyland is a stupid name for an amusement park--wasn't it named that because of the 1976 bicentennial or some shit? The Zippin Pippin, however, is amazing and is a landmark that should be saved, as well as the carousel. The Pippin was ELVIS's favorite ride, and it's a helluva fun, scary ride to boot. Part of the fun is wondering if you're gonna LIVE through it because it feels so rickety. I'm relieved to see that the two rides that really matter have been taken off the auction block. But come on, Dee: I love ya, but you need to realize that Libertyland sucks and is not worth saving *in its current form*. Only the ZIPPIN PIPPIN and the carousel need to be saved, and from the looks of things, it seems that the powers that be have finally realized that....
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 1:35 pm
 
If your backyard was operated by the MidSouth Fair until the weeds were knee-high, would you say, "My backyard sux"? Nope, you'd bring in a professional lawn-care service and have a nice place to spend a lazy afternoon.

This is the ideal analogy for Libertyland's current condition. The taxpayers should not have to lose what they paid for. We have 2 contenders at present for the park, one of whom will settle for a year-to-year lease and pledged a 320,000 dollar commitment for the first year alone!

All we need is the right management and Libertyland could have a water park and anything else imaginable. Where's your imagination, Corndog? This is a hard-won battle of a long fight.
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 6:31 pm
 
The powers that be finally realized the city was being ripped off by the fair board because of Save Libertyland. Keep fightin the good fight Dee.
Posted: Jun 7, 2006 11:57 pm
 
no, no, no, I AGREE with you. I said "in its current form." I think it's great that it might be taken over by someone with vision. I just hope they change the name and make it a lot better than it is now. And keep the Zippin Pippin and the carousel!
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 12:08 am
 
It was apparently voted on by the full council last night at 10 (I was sound asleep, but Steve Mulroy stayed and fought it out to the bitter end) and the vote didn't make the news, but now the whole council (there was only 1 dissenting vote cast, Jack Hammons (sp?) I think) has stood up for Libertyland, and it is up to the Mayor to do the right thing!

He sure will look mean to steal it out from under us when we've fought so long to get this far. I ain't too proud to beg though! So we're a-heading downtown with a Gratitude Bouquet for the Council on Friday morning, and do a "Roger and Me"-type hunt for the Mayor as well.

Maybe StaxLand, or Soul-ville, or whatever would float his boat, as long as we have a place to go during the summer.

Disney World: $4,000 (family of 4, 4 days)
6 Flags over St. Louis: $500 (family of three, three days, not counting gas)
Dollywood: $100 (2 people, one day)
Silver Dollar City: $200 (family of 4, one day)
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 12:17 am
 
StaxLand, or Soul-ville, or whatever

This place holds more value to this city than any rollercoaster ever built. I wasn't old enough but I would have done the same thing you are doing for Stax before they tore it down.
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 3:43 am
 
I agree with ya. Stax should never have been destroyed, but that seems to be the Memphis way.
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 4:21 am
 
exactly. Memphis has been notorious for tearing down its rich history.

Dee, you ROCK for doing all you've done. THANK YOU!!
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 5:14 am
 
Want some publicity? I've got the perfect idea. You have one guess as to what it is.
Posted: Jun 8, 2006 2:48 pm
 
Hey I couldn't have done anything without all the COOL MEMPHIS CATS who kept telling us to fight, fight, fight! Everybody out there: THANKS!

Desert Storm, you are scaring the sh*t outta me. But then, I am too much a weenie to even ride the Pippin, so...

We are trying to locate as many former employees of Libertyland as possible to do a press conference, lobby the Mayor, and start a letter-writing campaign to both Mayors (we scrapped going downtown Friday because we found out no one would be there) so anybody out there spread the word and let us know so we can put together a little show for Mr. Herenton and Mr. Wharton.
Posted: Jun 9, 2006 7:12 pm
 
Red Alert: Any corporate ceo's visiting the Goner board are encouraged to respond to the $20,000 question: Would you hold your company picnic at Libertyland if we can get the park re-opened this summer?

(Traditionally, corporations privately rent the park during September-October, and our CEO, Robert Barnard of T-Rex Entertainment, has said that if we can secure the support of local corporations, he can move forward --) so if you can swing it, please check out the Save Libertyland blog located at www.DetourMemphis.com and contact us!

We've already got a yes and three maybes!
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 12:03 am
 
Hey again, any goners want to glom onto our next Really Big Press Conference, show up at Libertyland Tuesday the 13th at 2 p.m. and we will wow everybody with our plan to re-open the park this summer!

We will have folks there who once had jobs at Libertyland and now are unemployed, so it will be dramatic and meaningful, please join us and help get our huge vacant lot re-populated.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 12:21 am
 
Hmm, no ceos from goner have shown up yet? No car mommy, we gave you your props for discovering the true ownership of the rides, allowing the city to reap the benefits of any sale, but you have once again mis-read the tea leaves. The ownership-of-the-rides issue has no bearing on people's disdain for "saving libertyland" in its current state. There was no referandum that all of a sudden people wanted the mediocre park re-opened. We hoped you would have taken your pyrrhic victory and found another tree to save.

Again, your friend with the ridiculously lowball offer to rent the acreage at Libertyland must think you are a total rube and Memphis is a bunch of morons! You are doing his bidding for an offer that is $120,000 a year in rent for the whole park?! I'd hate to see what kind of low-rent park he plans on running if that is his budget. Either come back with a realistic offer and a plan to make Libertyland decent or go away!

If you want a real water park, hold on; it's coming. Start raising those car payments now. http://www.memphisdailynews.com/Editorial/StoryLead.aspx?id=93127[/ur l]
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 12:59 am
 
Be sure to read the site plan as they have a waterpark, snow globe--not the band--but what looks like a snow park, and other cool features. Your friend's low-rent plan wouldn't be able to compete with this on his $300 a day budget. (You're going to have to adjust your above-stated expenses for parks within 30 minutes of Memphis). Any politician who would listen to your current proposal with such puny funding would, indeed, be insane. Face the facts: you're going to have to buy a car.

Good news though: you'll be able to walk to the safe, new MAC soon.

Thanks again for your help with the rides. They will probably be used to (help) pay for the Grizzlies' parking garage.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 5:08 am
 
You can't imagine what A great time I could show someone with $300 dollars a day...Jesus...I'd be dead in a ditch by DAWN!!

HEE=HAWW!
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 2:21 pm
 
By the time the Tunica proposal is built, all the teenagers who had summer jobs last year at Libertyland will be old and gray.

I don't go to Tunica. I also don't like spending money in Mississippi or Arkansas when I could spend it in Memphis, where my family lives.

Not everybody has their own business and some people live fairly close to the bone, so if Libertyland doesn't cut it for your upscale tastes, then don't bother coming -- but don't slam our right to fight for the park's re-opening based on your misunderstanding of the park's potential.

You're starting to sound like an old fogey there, Shermie!
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 2:53 pm
 
Hey, you're taking this personally! Don't shoot the messenger! Just 'cuz there aren't dozens, if not hundreds, of others like you who want to re-open something mediocre in Memphis, don't get mad at me.

Next time you're out saving something, do what the folks in Tunica did. 1) Think big(ger). The whole "saving" libertyland is where (the 1st place) you went wrong in my mind 2) draw a picture of your plans. It might cost a little money, but it's worth it in the long run 3) Don't insult politicians (and others in the public who might get behind your group) on a daily basis in a public forum.

As far as living close to the bone, you should love the MAC--open fields and tracks for the kids to run in--very affordable. Hopefully a swimming pool or 2. Should be right up your alley, no car mommie.

See you at the MAC!

P.S. I am an old fogey! Yet I have never seen anyone push a rock up such a large hill for such mediocre results and all just to fill the pockets of some out of town amusement park purveyor. You intrigue me. They should do a documentary on all your "save the whatevers" campaigns! I'd love to see how they all ended up. Thanks again for the help with the rides ownership issue. (Just want to make sure you can go home a winner).
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 3:14 pm
 
Someone who knows real estate do the math for me. Let's say Libertyland is 40 acres (probably low estimate). That's a total of 1,742,400 sq. feet. Dee's friend is offering to pay $120,000 a year in rent for this whole parcel. Doesn't that break down to valuing the land at a couple pennies per sq. foot? I'm not a real estate person, but this looks like a major lowball bid. Either Dee is getting a major kickback from her little friend or dee's little friend is trying to scam Memphis taxpayers. Didn't you just tell us that the mid-south fair was scamming money, dee? Why would you want to replace one scamster with another?
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:17 pm
 
Libertyland is less than 30 acres. For decades it was rented to the MSF for $1 per YEAR. No kickbacks in my book, I'm not a public official, remember?

Too bad the MidSouth Fair didn't nominate the Pippin for the Tennessee Preservation Trust's Top 10 Endangered Historic sites in Tennessee. I did, however, and here's the result:

Libertyland stuff made the top ten endangered things - see link
http://www.tennesseepreservationtrust.org/ten
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:18 pm
 
P.S. The MAC people love Libertyland, as they have stated to our group over the past 8 months several times. Their project would benefit from a re-vamped amusement park.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:23 pm
 
I did, however, and here's the result:
I read about this yesterday, but let me understand: you are taking sole credit for this?
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:52 pm
 
I'm not taking any credit, but I did send in the nomination form.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:53 pm
 
I am not trying to get into a pissing match here, but what reasons did MAC give as benefits to their project if a revamped amusement park was their neighbor?
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:54 pm
 
I'm more of a "giver" than a "taker" anyhow.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:55 pm
 
The MAC rep who contacted us at the beginning of our campaign made it very clear that they supported keeping Libertyland, it would not interfere with their plans, in fact it would complement their project. They are unable to take a public stand on the issue as they are in negotiations with the city for their own project.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 8:56 pm
 
I am guessing that kids come to Libertyland and MAC would be serving kids, so cross-pollination of the venues would be a natural result, so to speak.
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
 
Don't insult politicians? Are you kidding me or what? If they would just do their job groups like Save Libertyland wouldn't need to be formed.

As for the MAC, screw that! We don't need more ballfields in the fairgrounds. There is already a football stadium/ track right next door, a rugby field, vollyball pits, and baseball fields out the ass just 2 blocks down.

The Kroc center would be cool and wouldn't take up the whole property.

Save Libertyland!
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 10:35 pm
 
I repeat:

Zippin' Pippin, Carousel
All the rest can go to hell.

Love,
Jack Stands
Posted: Jun 12, 2006 10:58 pm
 
It was my assumption--and forgive me if I am incorrect--that the MAC would be more that just "ballfields"; that there would be a community center, gym, workout equipment, employed staff to assist the kids and organize activities etc etc and a new track etc. Ever run on that piece of shit? It sucks, I will tell you that. But perhaps they have put in a gorgeous new track since 1998, somehow I just don't think so.
Posted: Jun 13, 2006 1:09 pm
 
My definition of Hell:

A city that closes 4 municipal pools and its only theme park just in time for the hot hot summer.

See you at the press conference, Memphis!
Posted: Jun 13, 2006 3:32 pm
 
I agree with you on the pools. Not like I'd ever set foot in one of those pits, but they are neccessary for the kids in Memphis.
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