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Goner Message Board / Memphis / What's up on East Parkway?
Author Message
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 4:20 pm    
All the way up the parkway there are tons of trees banded with a wide royal blue band of plastic. Please don't tell me they are cutting those trees, as there are probably close to 100 of them!
Lettuce Knot
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 5:16 pm    
Christo!!!
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 5:42 pm    
I hope so!
jerryd
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 6:57 pm | Edited by: jerryd    
All the way up the parkway there are tons of trees banded with a wide royal blue band of plastic. Please don't tell me they are cutting those trees, as there are probably close to 100 of them!

It's up and down all the parkways. A lot more than a hundred trees. Try all of them. We saw some kids hanging the things up earlier. Probably some MCA students for a gay art project.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 7:39 pm    
i was wondering what those were too.
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 7:43 pm | Edited by: eric o    
something was going on off north parkway from thomas to the next light last night after the grizz game, around 9:30... like 10 police cars blocking the road... manhunt!
Miss Faye
Member
Posted: Mar 2, 2008 8:47 pm    
I hate that blue plastic shit. Hideous and wasteful. It may make me feel better if it turned out to be some kind of biodegradable plastic or something.
Luke Warm
Member
Posted: Mar 3, 2008 1:09 am    
Christo!!!

Watch out!
Someone might get killed!
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 3, 2008 1:17 pm    
I rode up North Parkway today, and sure enough a bunch of the trees were banded there. BUT, a lot of the blue plastic things had been torn off, and were littering the sides of the road all the way to Snowden. I stopped and picked up a piece on University, and it had like kid's drawings of houses on it. Huh?
Miss Faye
Member
Posted: Mar 3, 2008 10:24 pm    
That pissed me off this morning. As if there isn't enough trash blowing around. God. I'm starting to sound like a crotchety old lady... Damn whippersnappers!!!
Miss Faye
Member
Posted: Mar 3, 2008 10:26 pm    
Oh wait, it was just on the ch 5 news. Their hard-hitting journalism informed us that it was the work of an artist from the Urban Art Commission. Ohhhh! Okay!
woodsy
Member
Posted: Mar 3, 2008 11:04 pm    
i made a joke that it was art- and it really is?

gag.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 4, 2008 7:26 am    
Their hard-hitting journalism informed us that it was the work of an artist from the Urban Art Commission

ugly, and dumb.
Your tax dollars at work.
Lady J
Member
Posted: Mar 4, 2008 1:51 pm    
I was just on East Parkway and had the displeasure of seeing this so-called "art" project.


ugly, and dumb.


You forgot boring and uninspired.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 4, 2008 1:57 pm    
You forgot boring and uninspired.

How about "inexplicable" too? I don't get it.
You know, I'm an "artist". Where can I get some of this urban art money to wrap those beautiful trees in ugly royal blue plastic?
I'm sure I could come up with something equally as ugly, dumb, boring, uninspired, and just out and out wasteful!
jenny
Member
Posted: Mar 4, 2008 3:34 pm    
wow. not only is that the worst art-world rip-off that i've ever heard (christo and jeanne-claude??), but blue plastic? really? couldn't the arts commission at least cough up enough money for some nice fabric?
Lettuce Knot
Member
Posted: Mar 4, 2008 3:54 pm    
my kid could do that.
Lady J
Member
Posted: Mar 5, 2008 9:44 am    
my kid could do that.

A monkey could do that.
sixelsix
Member
Posted: Mar 5, 2008 9:46 am    
I live in that area. It's pretty damned embarrassing.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 5, 2008 1:29 pm    
They're mostly all gone on North Parkway from East Parkway to Snowden. Thankee!
Though, I went down N. Parkway to Dunlap yesterday morning, and they're all the way down to there!
UG-LY!
joseph t
Member
Posted: Mar 5, 2008 6:31 pm    
From the grapevine, this "project" was Warble related. Go figure...
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 6, 2008 10:20 am | Edited by: SAMBEAUX    
Too bad the Memphis Bloods didn't take it as a major Crips offensive. Kinda makes me long for the days of scatter Krystal boxes.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 8, 2008 9:19 pm    
kid
my kid could do that.

very original critique. never heard that before.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 8, 2008 9:27 pm    

very original critique. never heard that before.


very original thing to do - make up a new name just for posting on the goner board one time so no one knows who's insulting them.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 8, 2008 9:45 pm    

very original thing to do - make up a new name just for posting on the goner board one time so no one knows who's insulting them.


oh, i'm new to the board. new to memphis as well.

i'll most likely be posting here for awhile. at the very least, i'll be lurking. apart from the art criticism, there's plenty of good info. ;)
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 3:40 am    
i'm all for public art in memphis.

said.

so.. banding trees with PLASTIC makes them more ... appreciated?

i don't think so.

it does... make artists more hated.

i give y'all an F.

For FUCK YOU.

is that so hard to understand?
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 5:07 am    
at the very least, i'll be lurking.

do you not have anything to say?
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 1:00 pm    
So, Mokum, what was your vision when you started? Are you happy with the finished product? Did you apply for a grant to do this, or were you sought out? Have you done this sort of thing in other cities? Do you have a portfolio that you could link us to? I haven't had cause to go down Parkway in days. Is the installment still up? How long will it be up?
BullyRook
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 1:49 pm    
I liked it.

That said, I think I prefer blogs that use the paragraph style as opposed to the wannabe lyrical.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 2:07 pm    
o, Mokum, what was your vision when you started? Are you happy with the finished product? Did you apply for a grant to do this, or were you sought out? Have you done this sort of thing in other cities? Do you have a portfolio that you could link us to? I haven't had cause to go down Parkway in days. Is the installment still up? How long will it be up?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not the artist. I'm not even sure if I like it.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 2:36 pm    
you know what kills me is that there all these people who smile at shit like this and then get all pissed off about graffiti. graffiti (when it's good) fucking rules. and even the stuff that is bad sometimes rules because it's funny or just plain awesome. (like superman dam fool).
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 3:43 pm    
if the "artist" who wrapped the trees (organic) in ugly blue plastic (not organic, not biodegradable, not renewable) got public money for that "project," i would REALLY like to read his or her rhetoric on his grant application that yielded the money. my silver halide processes and photo chemicals are probably as loathsome and bad for the environment as plastic and i could use funding just as much as anyone... at least my work is archival

there's something all the rest of us "artists" are obviously doing or saying that does not resonate for check-writers and funders. blue plastic tree wrapper, enlighten us!
Highway Star
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 3:47 pm    
the urban art commission is trying to do good stuff. sometimes things look better on paper than they do in the end. this piece does not work in my opinion, (and that opinion is quite humble indeed) but mokum has a point about some of the criticism on here on this piece. even bad art can create good discussion. i know this is not an art forum, but it is full of people with creative minds and appreciation. don't know what i'm saying i guess really. but urban art is great.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 4:02 pm    
christo and richard serra works of urban art have injured people; i think a serra killed someone too....

don't get me wrong - i'm ALL for urban art, but i would think twice, both as an artist and as a grantor of public funds for art, about the ramifications of urban art installations and the materials used... the litter aspect of the non-biodegradable, non-renewable material sends a bad message and for me, a mixed message

i'm not pro-recycling anti plastic hippie by any means... but it just pisses me off when i get shit about my materials (photo chemicals) and the environment when other people are getting money for using materials just as bad as mine that's all. very personal, true.

as for the aesthetics, i could care less one way or another. talking about art is like blind people describing an elephant - or whatever that thing is. the tusks are most definitely not like the legs but they're both elephant parts
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 4:42 pm    
Christo and Jean Claude...don't get me started.

I will say that I laughed uproariously when my best friend from college (art history majors, we were) who now lives in Manhattan, went to Central Park when those gates were up and she said she almost vomited with University of Tennessee Big Orange trauma flashbacks from the sickening orange fabric everywhere.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 4:52 pm    
i'm not pro-recycling anti plastic hippie by any means

I am. Well, maybe not a hippie, but I recycle like mad and Memphis is certainly not a place where more litter needs to be flapping about. Glad there are funds for public art (or any art, for that matter) installations in Memphis, but this would have just given me a huge opportunity for eye-rolling and another reason to wonder just what continues to be so off with so-much contemporary art.
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 6:40 pm    
i'm not pro-recycling anti plastic hippie by any means

If being pro-recycling makes me a hippie, well then, I'll proudly be a hippie.

I love public art and I'm so grateful that Memphis does have it. The Urban Arts Commission has done amazing things for this city and for local artists over the last ten years, from sculptures in parks to murals in schools. Check out their site. I think most here would agree their efforts has done nothing but help the city.

Tad Lauritzen Wright is the artist and I'm a big fan of his work.

I'm not, however, crazy about the tree piece. The bands brings attention to the trees, which to me is a good thing because our trees differenciate us from other cities. To point out that which we often take for granted or overlook can be done so well through the visual arts - like a big arrow saying "look". But the irony of wrapping these natural treasures in vinyl that will live in a landfill for the next thousand years makes the piece unsettling for me. Maybe that's the point, I don't know. Is it suppose to be ironic? Again, I don't know. Aesthetically, I get it; environmentally, I don't.

I did email the UAC about whether the plastic is biodegradable and shared my concern about the potential of people tearing the bands off and littering. They did not say whether it is biodegradable, so I am going to assume it's not. They did say that Tad is going to go around daily and pick up any pieces that might get torn off. Surprisingly, I havent' seen any yet, so that's good. Oh, it's going to be up until the end of May.

As far as someone's four year old or a monkey doing it, the point is they didn't. Duchamp put a urinal on a pedistal and called it art around a hundred years ago. Picasso to Pollack to Basquiat - basically a century of abstract painting has always been accused of being so simple minded that a retarded elephant could do it. Oh and then there's Warhol stacking laundry boxes and Donald Judd just putting a plain old box in a room. On and on it goes... To say you don't like it because it's not your cup of tea, well then fine; but to say it's bad because it's so easy, then you try it.
Lettuce Knot
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 6:45 pm    
that "my kid could do that" remark was meant as irony. The point being that it was so unoriginal that it would be sorta funny. Oh well.
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 6:57 pm    
My aplogies then, Lettuce Knot. Sometimes irony doesn't translate well on the internet.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 7:02 pm    
Well, I didn't say that it was easy, I just said I thought it was ugly. And, that I don't get it - which I don't. Is there an artist's statement that explains it somewhere? If the point is to look at the trees then I think it failed miserably. Because I can't see the trees anymore for the glaring blue bands around them. And, I do think it is horribly wasteful (I am some kind of recycling fool!)

That said, I've heard about a million times about my art (the collage) "well, my kid did that last week at school." Or, "I'm way into decoupage too!" What I do is not decoupage, and your kid couldn't do it. So, I'm pretty sensitive to saying something like that.

But really, it is not my cup of tea - and I wonder about the reasoning behind it. Both how you could float that by the Art Commission for money, and just because it seems really wasteful.
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 7:08 pm    
Honestly, I'm not even sure if pointing the trees out is his point, Alisa, that's just what I thought about when I saw it. Who knows, I could be totally off the mark, which is why I'd love to read his statement about it as well.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 7:12 pm    
That said, I think I prefer blogs that use the paragraph style as opposed to the wannabe lyrical.

Okay, I just read the blog. And yeah, that faux "poetry" style is pretty damned dumb.
Supposed to be the river? Then I think brown or gray or silver would have been more appropriate colors.
Also, he mentions in the blog entry that a lot of people thought those trees were designated for cutting, which is the very first thing I thought too (see my first post about it.) And, that upset me. God knows it's not beyond the realm of reality that the powers that be would start cutting down the trees on the parkways.
So, what? I'm supposed to say, "Whew. They're not really going to cut those trees! Okay, well, I'm real glad they're just ugly blue plastic wrappings and not tree cutting markers. Damned, I'm relieved and I really appreciate those trees!"
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 7:16 pm    
which is why I'd love to read his statement about it as well.

You posted while I was writing, lemissa. Yep, if you find it send me a link!
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 7:32 pm    
I do want to say that I'm not opposed to using vinyl or plastic in art. I'm just not too keen about using miles of it.
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 9, 2008 10:42 pm    
I keep a Smithsonian magazine in the john, but I always end up reading the shampoo bottle instead. My opinion of the artist's style is of no real consequence.
The blog that Bullyrook linked says that the project was incomplete, because the crew got scared somewhere along South Parkway. The people who live around South Parkway not only paid for there trees to get plastic-wrapped, but they paid for their trees to get plastic-wrapped, and no one showed up to plastic-wrap their trees.
There's not a whole lot of extra cash over there, so I don't think people need to be taxed for bad art that they're not even getting.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 12:13 am    
awww some artsy fartsies scared of south parkway. hee=haw!
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 8:50 am | Edited by: paristheatre    
Aesthetically, I get it; environmentally, I don't.

A couple of all impoprtant overriding rules I just made up that are a must for public/environmental art.

1. on reading dan savage's column yesterday I was reminded of the excellent excellent age old camping rule that commands you to LEAVE THE GROUNDS IN BETTER CONDITION THAN YOU FOUND THEM. of course dan's talking about older folks dating exceedingly young folks but the same rule applies here.

2. IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT. Always a probelm/concern with any art that involves/includes something that already exists in the natural or manmade landscape. Do you build 2x4 scaffolding around an Alexander Calder? Can you set up launch ramps on the spiral jetty? Do you wrap plastic bands around big old beautiful southern trees on my moms street? if you do, it better be crazy rad. Go Big or Go Home, friends.

I didnt see any pics above of the piece in question so I'm talking blindly but I think I 'get it'.
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 9:22 am    
ok so I found the pics,

I'm going to pass along some advice that cost me well over $20000 to aquire.

Here it is
for you
4 free.

bfa kids sing along...

IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT GOOD MAKE IT BIG
IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT BIG PAINT IT RED.


GOOD

BIG

RED

ALL OF THE ABOVE
the nut
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 9:34 am    
i drew moustaches on all the pieces of plastic wrapped around all those trees.

viva l'revoluccion!
Miss Faye
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 8:01 pm    
Grrrrr.... I don't think I can look at the ones on North Parkway every day through May. River my ass. I got your river right here. I may have to take a long stroll armed with some shears. You can quote me on that. Also--him picking it up daily is bullshit. I see at least 2-3 pieces on the ground every day. Lay off the scads of plastic next time. Please?
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 8:21 pm | Edited by: mokum    
meanwhile...

there are some nice pieces that are part of the urban arts commission's 10th anniversary show, i.e. this one.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 10:43 pm    
I may have to take a long stroll armed with some shears.

Now, that's a little bit of "performance art" I could get behind!
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 11:04 pm    
I haven't read any of the blogs, but I've seen the art. I agree with Alisa's thing at the top: My first impression was the trees were marked to be cut down.
jerryd
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 11:06 pm | Edited by: jerryd    
That junks up till May? Give any douchebag that can doodle a piece of paper and they automatically think they're an artist.

Oy vay! Stop the insanity!
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 11:07 pm    
I got your river right here.

Y'all rule so hard, it hurts.
Rumpleforeskin
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 11:28 pm    
I didn't see any art when I drove down e. Parkway just past the fairgounds but I did see a bro' man wearing a Dracual/ Batman cape.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 11:59 pm    
I did see a bro' man wearing a Dracual/ Batman cape.

that guy deserves a grant any day of the week over the dude that put that blue plastic on the trees. i think the guy who spraypainted "superman dam fool" should get some sort of lifetime achievement award from the urban arts commission.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:30 am    
i think the guy who spraypainted "superman dam fool" should get some sort of lifetime achievement award from the urban arts commission.

I think the "dick on the frog" dude should, too.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:37 am | Edited by: Theresa K    
Sometimes irony doesn't translate well on the internet.

nor does it sometimes not translate well in executing art

i've had several looks at the trees lately, and most recently this afternoon.

intellectually, from a wide variety of critical filters, i can construct any sort of rationale for the work's greatness or weakness. the bottom line is that i think its pedestrian. and ugly. its an odd choice for a public art installation.

it reminds of me why i don't take money from the government for art, as much as i'd like to...

the dick on the frog dude = heroic in his stupidity.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:49 am    
the dick on the frog dude = heroic in his stupidity.

Even moreso:
Seen by many.
Had to be explained to youngsters (probably with the most insane euphemisms).
White-washed
Re-painted.


We're all stupid for talking about this. Including myself. Dude/Dudette will probably print this page out, add it to their portfolio and toss it down at their next Ad Agency interview.
Nothing to do with art, just a "look what I done".
I finally looked at the blog. And they're all about censoring coments, so, there you go.
Art makes me angy, I guess.

Wish I could just enjoy it like the "dick on a frog" graffiti. Or however fancy people spell it.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:51 am    
P.S., now that I've talked about my feelings, I'd like to spray paint them everywhere to "stir the idiots up".

MIFA, Urban League, Chucalissa, I'm looking for funding and a permit.
elle
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 2:07 am    
maybe you can somehow convince the urban arts commission that your brewing coffee is really performance art?
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 8:07 am    
however fancy people spell it.
"dique on a frogue"?
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 9:05 am    
maybe you can somehow convince the urban arts commission that your brewing coffee is really performance art?

Here we go about to tear some shit up, but I agree. I am just "coffee talkin'" right now (yum, microlot Finca Mauritania), but really, this is one of the main sticking points with the way artists in our society have been taught to view themselves and the way others view artists. Art in the USA is so separate (for the most part) from the society as a whole, that no one can even consider something like coffee roasting to be an art; the most they'll give it is an argument that it "might" be craft and how dare anyone talk about coffee and art together; what an insult to real artists. Please.

Then Urban Art Commissions, while meaning well, still fund art that has no connection to the community/society in which it exists because (back to the beginning) artists have been trained and told that they are separate somehow and of an "art world" that is supposedly necessary to our society and simply underappreciated. So we get plastic on trees signifying a river.

It is just fucked up. I love some art, but the system is de la fucked.
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 9:19 am    
how dare anyone talk about coffee and art together; what an insult to real artists. for real..But JELLO?!?! Where's my checkbook?[i]
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 9:31 am    
That Jello San Francisco does indeed crack me up.
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 9:53 am    
I personally love the gummi bear chandelier!
lemissa
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 9:56 am    
Wish I could just enjoy it like the "dick on a frog" graffiti.

Got that right. Hands down my favorite public art in Memphis, even if it only lasted for a day.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 10:04 am    
Got that right.

totally!
And, I LOVED that food art. Now that's some creativity!
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 10:25 am    
"dique on a frogue"

"Tish! You spoke French!"
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 10:30 am    
penis sur grenouille


"dick on a frog" is so much better
jerryd
Member
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:17 pm    
the dick on the frog dude = heroic in his stupidity.

The only time I've ever thought a drawing was good enough that I should by the "artist" a beer, which is exactly what I did when I found out who did it.
Wire
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 9:12 am    
Story in CA - art project that was tragically misunderstood.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 9:16 am    
A confrontation came later in the day.

"Some students had gone to South Parkway west of Lamar," said Lauritzen Wright, "and one called me and said that people were blocking their path and wouldn't let them through. People were shouting at them and telling them that they didn't belong on the street and they should go back to Germantown. I went down there, and it was scary. People were saying that they didn't want our propaganda in their neighborhood. A man brought out a dog and another man was holding a pistol. Now, nobody was assaulted. The dog wasn't turned on anyone, and the gun wasn't pointed. But they were there."



Oh ho ho ho! RICH.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 9:18 am    
"My assumption that people would understand about this kind of art was incorrect," he said. "Would it have gone better if people had had more information and knew that it was going happen? Absolutely. I think more preparation would have made a difference. In a way, this all makes me think about my own work. Either I'm in the studio alone or I'm with other artists or I'm teaching. Perhaps the whole process is too isolating."


As I was saying...
(sorry for the double post)
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 11:10 am    
i love his line drawings. i think this was a good idea that needed some more preparation.

and, funnily enough... NO WAY WOULD GERMANTOWN EVER PUT UP WITH THIS!

so germantown artists WOULD have to come to midtown to wrap trees, etc.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 1:51 pm    
i love his line drawings

i didn't even know that there were drawings on the plastic til i saw a piece of the plastic up close

that the drawing is a little house doesn't really say "river" to me

"My assumption that people would understand about this kind of art was incorrect," he said. "Would it have gone better if people had had more information and knew that it was going happen? Absolutely. I think more preparation would have made a difference.

DUH

sorry. this is all so ridiculous and far too easy to lambast

gov't sanctioned/paid public art will never please. i can't remember but i bet that rodin's burghers of calais were probably ridiculed too, awesome as that piece is

viva la graffiti - best public art
britney
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 2:22 pm    
if none of you are familiar with Tad's work, you should get familiar with it. he's an extremely talented artist and all around awesome dude. that's my two cents.

also, word is there will be no more art reviews in The Playbook which really fucking sucks for the artists who actually show in this town. (however, lucky for Bobby Spillman who received the last one. awesome fuckin review by the way, last week) i know personally that at least one artist i know who has sold pieces to folks who just picked up the review from his show last year and saw a picture of his work.

like it or not, Tad did his job. he's got you all talkin which is more than i can say for some "artists" in this town.
miss linda
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 2:24 pm    
and all this time I thought they were gonna chop them trees down, damn.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 3:06 pm    
It is interesting that the artist failed to understand the message of expression that was sent back to him. These neighborhoods weren't saying that people should have been notified. In fact, prior notification (an article, a mailing, etc.) would have made the artistic concept moot. People would pass by thinking once or twice, "there are those stupid banners I read about." The message that people were trying to send you, Tad, is that those trees are more of a community symbol than any art project you could devise that distracts from the parkways.
From the comments, and I agree.

also, word is there will be no more art reviews in The Playbook which really fucking sucks for the artists who actually show in this town.
That does suck. Also, a couple of years ago I think the Flyer stopped publishing art opening info, which really sucks too.

he's got you all talkin which is more than i can say for some "artists" in this town.
The "art world" in Memphis is digustingly insular and pretty damned snooty. If two or three gallery owners aren't telling people that it's art, or it's not their cup of tea, then you are not shown. It's totally "show me the money", and doesn't have much to do with art at all.
britney
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 3:46 pm    
he's got you all talkin which is more than i can say for some "artists" in this town.
The "art world" in Memphis is digustingly insular and pretty damned snooty. If two or three gallery owners aren't telling people that it's art, or it's not their cup of tea, then you are not shown. It's totally "show me the money", and doesn't have much to do with art at all.



well, that, i have to somewhat agree with. considering i've been dating one for almost the last year, i've gotten my fair share of the taste of that world. but it's all about the ego anyway, right?

as far as the flyer goes, she still will do reviews especially just before big openings but she is never critical. if she (carrol knowels) doesn't like your work, she just won't write anything at all which hinders consistency as far as how often she "reviews."
Highway Star
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 3:50 pm | Edited by: Highway Star    
the art scene is much more complex than that. People like Dwayne Butcher, John Weeden and Hamlett Dobbins are all providing incredible opportunities to be a part of or observe amazing art shows or projects. david lusk is not the only gallery in town. however the arts are struggling here. The insular attitude goes both ways at best if not more tilted towards the general public keeping themselves insulated from art. and art has everything to do with art, no matter what we think is good or important. in a strange turn as well, david lusk's wife carissa (she was the last head of the urban arts commission) actually is a great worker and administrator within the art community. that's my two cents only.
bruce
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 3:55 pm    
she,carissa, is at the metal museum now
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 4:42 pm    
The insular attitude goes both ways at best if not more tilted towards the general public keeping themselves insulated from art.

I think this is totally unfair given the nature of the art world and the educational system. Kids are marked from Saturday School at MCA as being talented or not and then after middle school, you better be brown-nosing the art teachers or genuinely talented to even get into an art class. This is par for the course in most American cities. Then there is the comical world of the BFA education (and I'll throw BA in Art History in there too; I was soooooo fucking cut off from reality, even in UTK's old art building).

This system just sets artists up for how it all it all works with many artists and most gallery owners resenting showing to people who aren't helping pay the bills. The art world caters to people with money and who "might know what I am trying so desperately to express, because hell if I should have to explain myself to idiots who don't care about art."

I appreciate this guy for trying, but he failed this time around; lesson learned, I suppose. I am sure I might like his line drawings and hopefully I'll get a chance to see them. I doubt I will be able to afford anything and I hope that is OK.

And I loooooooooove art! YAY! (Seriously)
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 5:26 pm    
I liked some of the line drawings that I saw on his site, but as a public art project this failed miserably.

I didn't like some of the things he said in the article.
"Some students had gone to South Parkway west of Lamar," said Lauritzen Wright, "and one called me and said that people were blocking their path and wouldn't let them through. People were shouting at them and telling them that they didn't belong on the street and they should go back to Germantown. I went down there, and it was scary. People were saying that they didn't want our propaganda in their neighborhood. A man brought out a dog and another man was holding a pistol. Now, nobody was assaulted. The dog wasn't turned on anyone, and the gun wasn't pointed. But they were there."
Clueless.

but some people seemed terrified that we were marking the trees for destruction."
yeah, that's the first thing a lot of people thought. Duh. And, that's upsetting to a lot of Midtowners.

Read the comments on the CA article. They're pretty enlightening, and a lot of people thought it was ugly. I think it is too.

[i]The insular attitude goes both ways at best if not more tilted towards the general public keeping themselves insulated from art.

I think this is totally unfair given the nature of the art world [/i

I agree, saispas. I don't think the general public, in general, wants to insulate themselves from "art". But the whole art patronage/openings/showing/academic things here just is not condusive (spelled?) to the general public. I mean, I'd love to see the kind of reception my brother, the art lover and redneck, would get at these openings. If you're not into "modern" art, and/or don't have someone with money behind you then you are not going to be shown, period.
britney
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 5:33 pm    
People like Dwayne Butcher, John Weeden and Hamlett Dobbins are all providing incredible opportunities to be a part of or observe amazing art shows or projects. david lusk is not the only gallery in town.


amen to that
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 5:45 pm    
I also want to say, somewhat defensively, that my attitude about the Memphis Art World is not sour grapes. I long ago gave up any notions of calling myself an "artist" or trying to get a tiny chink toehold in the art world here. Although, I do think my collages (but not my photography by a long shot) could be considered "art", and I love them as "art". I don't have the persona, or the youth, or the money, or the suck up, or the particular "modern art" style to be accepted here.

Long ago I took myself and my slides to a rather well known "photography" gallery here. Owned and operated by a society photographer who has made quite a good living as a photographer, and is adored by the (then) influential art leagues. They were all B/W Southern landscapes, and they were all interesting and pretty beautiful photographs. The guy looked at my slides, in a hurried manner, and said "Well, WHAT'S THE THEME?" I was dumbfounded. I said, "Uh...B/W Southern Landscape?" This guy got real redfaced, and started practically yelling at me..."THAT'S NOT A THEME!
Now, if you had 30 of these dead kudzu photos then I could show your work. DEAD KUDZU is a theme. B/W Southern landscape IS NOT A THEME!"

Jesus, louisus.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 5:49 pm    
Believe me, I wish art was more meaningful in our society; that was the #1 reason I didn't accept my teaching assistantship to a masters program because it all seemed like so much bullshit, esp. after taking African Art. I know we don't live in Africa, but our art world could be like the Cosby Kids and learn something. I know they feel that public art installations are the way they are speaking to the "rest of us", but that is exactly how condescending most of these things come down. It is either so demanding and without humor or half-baked and still insistent of its importance.

Thank god for Raymond Pettibon.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 6:09 pm    
I know they feel that public art installations are the way they are speaking to the "rest of us", but that is exactly how condescending most of these things come down. It is either so demanding and without humor or half-baked and still insistent of its importance.

See the blog link about this for the insistence of its importance. And in weird half-baked "free verse" as well!
I'm a regular Joe. Banding most of the trees on the Parkway with ugly royal blue plastic illustrated with line drawings is not important. Or meaningful in the slightest. The only meaningful thing about this art project that I can see is that, yep Brit, it started people talking and it was offensive enough to the folks on S. Parkway that they hauled out the guns and the dogs. I guess the reaction is the art to me, but the artist doesn't seem to understand this, and bitched about being confronted about his defacement of the parkways.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 6:14 pm    
And actually, contributed to the racial "us vs. them."
dtrain
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 6:52 pm    
Arts gay.
bruce
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 7:24 pm    
but would you kick them out of the sack?
dtrain
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 7:33 pm    
Depends on if it's NY governator...
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 7:54 pm    
And sure I keep talking about these damn blue bands, but I always thought the Parkway system itself was a gorgeous, extraordinarily-crafted, meaningful and hell, artistic creation in and of itself. It is also useful and has held up over time to three, maybe four generations of Memphians. So what artist created the Parkways? I'll buy him a box of wine!
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 10:14 pm    
i don't know if anyone here remembers that in the NYC subways not long after 9/11, there were some black boxes in the Union Square subway station (on a platform? i can't remember where)

i IMMEDIATELY said to myself: "art project" when i heard about it on the news.
there was all this talk about terrorism, etc. as was appropriate for the time/venue, etc.

i don't remember any talk in NY at the time about "what is art?" "what is public art?" "public art" and art as agitprop terrorism... but it is the only thing in my recent memory where the "art" got such a reaction... only in the NYC case, no one knew it was (supposed to be) art until way way after the fact.

my point is that it was CLEAR to me that it was an art project and while i agree it was in bad taste, there was a nasty part of me that really applauded the artist's ability to get a reaction - albeit taking the cheap route by leveraging fear.

the tree thing just didn't seem to be "all that"

i dunno. maybe i am a cynic through and through. an irredeemable cynic.
Highway Star
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 4:15 am | Edited by: Highway Star    
look, i've got to respond to some of this though i thought i was done writing because i'm really not that learned on the subject but let's start here. alisa, i'm sorry that some douchebag photography guy that has had some success belittled and also had no fucking clue, but that doesn't stop your art from being shown, it only stops your art from being shown at some douchebag's studio. to equate the art world with the dickheads, is so shitty and easy. i certainly understand being disenfranchised but you've got to know that there are other possibilities out there. there are people doing and helping other people do cool stuff or just fucking stuff in general. and to use dwayne's blog to act like the artist took himself too seriously is so weird. the artist said he didn't do it right, and yes he might have even been (and i don't think totally) a little clueless as to what he was getting into, but isn't that how one learns. perhaps you grew up being totally full of the knowledge of the world and never had to experiment outside your comfort zone, but most of us had to fuck it up many times to get to even being half not fucking up all the time. and i'm still trying to get there. and art teachers and the way that kids get picked for art stuff has nothing to do with most of these grownups who are dedicated to doing something (whether something we think it is stupid or not) about art. they didn't set up all the art programs, the fucking government hired your goddamn art teacher, not an artist! and theresa i understand the cynicism, but just because many people fucked up trying to make public art isn't a statment against public art. there's a million fucking terrible fucking punk bands, and those that say they don't like punk use all of them to try and validate their point. i must admit to being in a band that probably made that easier sometimes. art is good, art is bad, it doesn't mean a fucking thing. art is not fucking wrong. not fucking wrong. not fucking wrong. although people who do art are often wrong. just like all us dumbasses making music or literature or whatever the fuck we do.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 7:39 am    
and art teachers and the way that kids get picked for art stuff has nothing to do with most of these grownups who are dedicated to doing something

I painfully realize that; it is the system that I have tried to rail on and that is the thing that totally frustrates me about art in our society. It creates that separatism that perpetuates the hard feelings you see here. It doesn't prevent me from enjoying art, but I grew up middle class, attending Saturday School since age 3 and with a constant Brooks membership before easing into that white girl major of art history. It was relatively easy for me because I had the entre and eventually the vocabulary and mind to discuss what was being presented, but that is typically the only way "Art" exists in our world and if you don't have those things (or money to maybe buy something to match your living room), then you will feel and be an outsider in most art subcultures. Sure there are always exceptions; I have been speaking of the general.
Will
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 9:20 am    
"Some students had gone to South Parkway west of Lamar," said Lauritzen Wright, "and one called me and said that people were blocking their path and wouldn't let them through. People were shouting at them and telling them that they didn't belong on the street and they should go back to Germantown. I went down there, and it was scary. People were saying that they didn't want our propaganda in their neighborhood. A man brought out a dog and another man was holding a pistol. Now, nobody was assaulted. The dog wasn't turned on anyone, and the gun wasn't pointed. But they were there."

HAHAHAHAA!!!

oh sorry broheems, didn't mean to scare anybody. I think you just happened to stumble into one of my situationist performance pieces.
Golightly
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 9:27 am    
"Some students had gone to South Parkway west of Lamar," said Lauritzen Wright,

He should stick with basketball....
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 9:38 am    
dtrain drinks pee pee
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 9:59 am    
art is not fucking wrong. not fucking wrong. not fucking wrong. although people who do art are often wrong.
I have nothing against public art, I just didn't care for this artist's piece. I did appreciate the fact that he said it was a learning experience for him, but not the story he told about the people who confronted him on S. Parkway. Of course they're going to confront him...he is a stranger in their neighborhood and no explanation was offered before hand as to what was going on. To me, it's pretty danged clueless to go into a strange neighborhood and not expect confrontation when you are infringing on someone's turf. And I didn't like the fact that he told this story to the press, complete with guns and dogs and racial references about them being from Germantown. It only reinforces what he was complaining about.

and to use dwayne's blog to act like the artist took himself too seriously is so weird.
It just seemed like that to me. I don't know any of these people, so I don't have another other reference point. All the comments were "rah rah" the artist, so I assumed these people that were discussing it on the blog were all friends and of course that's what they'd say. Again, I don't know them, and they may all be perfectly lovely people. I just didn't care for the project, or the blog entry about it.

Hell, I don't know. Maybe it is just sour grapes about the Memphis art community and/or my work really does suck. I've found other ways to show, but ways that are not taken seriously. Therefore, my work is not taken seriously because once you show that way you're shut out of the "legitimate" galleries here. But again, maybe it's just me and there's something about me that doesn't translate into "real art".
But, you know, what IS "real art"? It does seem to me that there are a handful of people here who control the art money, and if they don't think it is then it isn't. If you don't know the right people then you're kind of screwed.

It distresses me that the art world here is so divided. But, I wish I had the ability to say that I don't care for a particular project without fearing that that opinion screws my art from being taken "seriously".

Art definitely IS in the eye of the beholder. I didn't like the project. I wasn't alone in this. But I'd certainly love to see a whole lot more art shown in Memphis that I could decide if I liked it or not!
jerryd
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 10:05 am    
He should stick with basketball....

I was wondering if anybody was going to make that joke.
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 10:12 am    
me, too.

thanks for not letting a great opportunity slip past.
Golightly
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 10:13 am    
I'm the KING of the obvious...the worse the better
Highway Star
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 2:32 pm    
whoo! i was drunk when i layed into all that. sorry for the rant. i still feel what i said, but i don't feel it like THAT! damn! i gotta stop drunk typing. in the end i guess i was railing against generalizing because there are some people who i really have felt lucky to know bringing stuff that would never come to a town like memphis. i have been exposed to this in some of the main galleries because of the force of the artists or artist advocates, but i have also seen amazing stuff at people's houses, warehouse spaces, public places and in small galleries. money for the most part is always going to be in the wrong hands, and art is certainly no different. you are definitely right about that. but the community still presents some amazing stuff sometimes.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 2:35 pm    
the community still presents some amazing stuff sometimes.

I will not argue that point, ever.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 2:40 pm    
the community still presents some amazing stuff sometimes.

I will not argue that point, ever.


me either.
bradx
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 5:45 pm    
drunk hands indeed. ive damned myself for that particular sin more times than i can count.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 5:59 pm    
if it makes anyone, everyone or no one feel better, van gogh never sold a piece of his own art during his lifetime....
dtrain
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 6:13 pm    
I love to drink pee pee!
bradx
Member
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 6:25 pm    
if it makes anyone, everyone, or noone feel better, i have no idea who van gogh was other than the guy from the lee harvey oswald band song who drank absinthe and mailed some girl his ear. so he was an artist, eh?
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 11:02 am    
I know they feel that public art installations are the way they are speaking to the "rest of us", but that is exactly how condescending most of these things come down. It is either so demanding and without humor or half-baked and still insistent of its importance.

there's plenty of public art projects/pieces/interventions with humor.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 11:53 am    
there's plenty of public art projects/pieces/interventions with humor.

dick on a frog!
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 2:21 pm    
Note I said "most"; you are right that there are plenty of them with humor, inc. dick on a frog etc. I wasn't even using "humor" in its strict thematic sense. There are plenty of works with a humorous theme that are still ponderously serious.
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 4:24 pm    
weeden clarifies...
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 5:06 pm    
Still, his assertion that it's "environmentally correct" in the CA article is horse shit. If something is going to be so wasteful and stupid, it better at least look good. Or sound good. Fuck ABC Records for polluting our earth and our ears with Steely Dan vinyl.
eric o
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 5:35 pm    
see the glory of...

of the royal scam!
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 6:00 pm    
Well.
I'm certainly glad to know that my tax dollars weren't concerned!
How funny...the Goner board was checked! I'm sure my ass is grass in this town!

I've been thinking a couple of other things about this, (rethinking that this, as reported, "a learning experience" is an admirable thing, and thinking about the term "public art") but maybe I should hold my goner board tongue.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 6:03 pm    
hold my goner board tongue.

oh we ALL should, all of us!
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 6:07 pm | Edited by: Alisa    
Yeah, I'm kind of really fucking sorry I waded into all this.

Maybe I should stick to basketball. Go Lauritzen Wright!
Lorenzen?
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 6:10 pm    
I mean, Go Tigers!
bruce
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 6:33 pm    
I'm sure my ass is grass in this town!


yep might as well move to podunk, you'll never work in this town again!!!
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 7:20 pm    
weeden clarifies...

and then some.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 15, 2008 7:26 pm    
might as well move to podunk

uh...uh. Midtown is as incestuous as any podunk could be.
Uh...uh...not in Kansas anymore?

you'll never work in this town again!!!
Man, that has the ring of a bestselller. Maybe I should take up writing...
timmyjinx
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 1:08 am    
alisa, i saw your collages at the artist market last christmas and if i'd had a little more dough i would've left with one. really good stuff. we bought a small piece of stained glass.

i feel your pain about the local art scene. i've met enough of the name photographers in town to know that most of them are tools. to be successful as a memphis photographer is hard, to be successful as a memphis music photographer is impossible.

my opinion on the parkway tree wrap thing is this, he should have gone bigger and bolder. the size of the plastic looks exactly the size they use to mark the trees they are going to cut. a 3 or 4 foot wide plastic with clear line drawings would've helped i think. i like the idea though.

last thing, random graffiti sucks (except the guys who keep redoing whatever over on highland, best thing to ever happen to that building). the dick on the frog sucked too. you may not like the frog mural but why fuck with someone else's art.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:34 am    
why fuck with someone else's art.


homage to marcel duchamp?
i mean... he started all that shit for the century in which we were born...

or - that's postmodernism for you?
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:37 am    
thanks for kind words about the collages, timmyjinx.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:42 am    
i've met enough of the name photographers in town to know that most of them are tools. to be successful as a memphis photographer is hard, to be successful as a memphis music photographer is impossible.


Bully Rook is not a REAL tool, he's just a bargain bin tool. :)
(And a great photographer, music and otherwise!)
Will
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:48 am    
Fuck ABC Records for polluting our earth and our ears with Steely Dan vinyl.

now see, that's just mean.
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 4:44 pm    
That clarification was informative, but could he have possibly come off any more icily? Probably not. I think it is great that people freaked out about the project enough to talk about and question it and think. So we should like every single piece an artist creates because he is a "good" artist who calls Memphis home? I mean, even William Eggleston and Shelby Foote put out missteps or simply, crap. It happens. I am sure he is still a nice guy who does some cool work.

I understand the art community's frustration with always having to answer to the "tax dollars" question, but there is a way to explain to people so they both understand and then perhaps care to keep understanding.

Or maybe we are just heartless bitches on our periods!

(Someone bring me something to heal a gnarly sunburn.)
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 5:07 pm    
as re: clarification:

i do not regularly read the CA (only when i'm in town), so i don't know if there was any info about the installation that previewed it. was there?

which means i wholeheartedly agree: the art community's frustration with always having to answer to the "tax dollars" question, but there is a way to explain to people so they both understand and then perhaps care to keep understanding.


if the setting was a museum or gallery, one would have been prepared for what they were going to see, experience or witness, and have any number of "guides," from paper, artist's statement, docent talk, headphone stuff... etc to EXPLAIN what was going on

i don't know about anyone else, but the first i knew about this - there were trees with blue bands around them, looking as though they were marked for destruction.

pretty incendiary way to kick off a tribute to nature (ie: the river), don't you think?

maybe it was just sloppy curating? i don't know.
i'd be ALL FOR the incendiary kick-off IF somewhere there was an explanation --- somewhere AMIDST the installation - rather than on the interweb
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 6:53 pm    
My misconceptions about how the piece was funded came about pretty naturally. I found out who funded the artist and then I looked at their web site to see who funded them. When I saw "City of Memphis" up in the corner, I said "Awww, damn" and then I started griping about the tax dollars.
My mistake.
I still don't like the piece. I have a feeling the artist doesn't like the piece, himself, or he would have finished it.
I think a 2/3's done trail of plastic shows a lack of concern, either for the public or for the art.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 7:54 pm    
Here's a simple question to those who have harped on about their 'tax dollars' being spent on art: what's wrong with public funding for the arts?
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:02 pm    
what's wrong with public funding for the arts?

i am all for it

HOWEVER... if you receive public funding for your art, there is a whole set of responsibilities that go along with it. i worked AT PBS for 5 years and continued to program a series for another 13... PBS is funded by both public and private money. that's almost 20 years of feeling the cold steel of the guillotine on the back of your neck just waiting to cut your head off based on your personal aesthetic.

in my opinion, public funding of the arts often serves to dilute the art because of the masters the art must serve and the accountability the artist has as a result of accepting the money.

some people work well (ie: produce & create) within those constraints. others do not

this is all based on aforementioned experience receiving monies both public and private. you may or may not consider what you see on television as "art," but the funding of it comes from the same well.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:04 pm    
Dude. Juxtapose "art" for "music", and there are about a million threads on this already.
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:22 pm    
My objection to this project being publicly funded is that all of South Parkway got the shaft.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:44 pm    
i am all for it

HOWEVER... if you receive public funding for your art, there is a whole set of responsibilities that go along with it. i worked AT PBS for 5 years


i'm a huge fan of PBS (both TV and radio), but a network and an artist are not the same thing.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:45 pm | Edited by: mokum    
Dude. Juxtapose "art" for "music", and there are about a million threads on this already.

asian dub foundation, a band that wouldn't exist without public funding.
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:54 pm    
asian dub foundation, a band that wouldn't exist without public funding.

I don't think they'd make it on South Parkway, either.
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 8:56 pm    
asian dub foundation

God, that's the best argument against public funding of music I've ever heard.

a network and an artist are not the same thing.

You're a fucking idiot.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:45 pm | Edited by: mokum    
asian dub foundation

God, that's the best argument against public funding of music I've ever heard.

a network and an artist are not the same thing.

You're a fucking idiot.


is that the best you can do?

you must be a drummer.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 10:47 pm    
I don't think they'd make it on South Parkway, either.

probably not.
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 11:08 pm    
Well, from your unreflected one-line response, it's pretty obvious that you didn't read what Theresa wrote and if you did, you didn't spend any time thinking about it. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling for somebody to tell you "no, I don't think tax dollars should be spent on art" so you can argue why they should be.

From your insulated and anonymous posting, I'd have to guess you're probably a laptop pilot. And a total douche.
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 16, 2008 11:31 pm | Edited by: mokum    
Well, from your unreflected one-line response, it's pretty obvious that you didn't read what Theresa wrote

incorrect.

and if you did, you didn't spend any time thinking about it.


pot. kettle. black.

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling for somebody to tell you "no, I don't think tax dollars should be spent on art" so you can argue why they should be.


hate to break it to you, but it's not as simple as that.


From your insulated


i'll try and spread my wings in the future.

and anonymous posting, [/i]

would you like me to provide my name, address, and social security number?

I'd have to guess you're probably a laptop pilot.


in case you were unaware, glass houses and stones don't mix.

And a total douche.


based your 'insulated', 'anonymous', and asinine attacks, i'd have to say that the feeling is mutual.

have a good one.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 1:37 am    
Yeah, dude. He's totally not a drummer.
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 9:46 am    
I donated to PBS last week. That gives me complete sovereignty to extend my middle finger outward and upward to all who live in that dark cave where they smash each other with rocks tied to sticks and pretend to not like Steely Dan. I suggest making it easier on yourselves and step into the light. The more you resist the more it hurts.
bruce
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 9:48 am    
i a drummer, me lik mmunkees
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 12:39 pm    
you're a mmunkees
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 2:59 pm    
Well, from your unreflected one-line response, it's pretty obvious that you didn't read what Theresa wrote

incorrect.

and if you did, you didn't spend any time thinking about it.

pot. kettle. black.


Nice message board cliche, toolbox. I understood what she said and her point is valid. You just didn't get it.

Where do you think the PBS programming comes from? Theresa was trying to offer some information, as someone who has actually done something, and you make some off handed comment indicating that you don't know shit about what you're talking about and aren't spending anytime trying to figure it out. Theresa obviously over-estimated your critical thinking ability when she took it for granted that you'd be able to understand that her problem with public funding for the arts is the system that disperses the monies to the creative forces. The various PBS affiliates come up with the content for the PBS network (which isn't really a network like the big US television networks anyways), they create their content. Because of responsibilities to the public and to the underwriters, they end up airing filmed stage plays of "Sunday in the Park With George", instead of a retrospective on the Vienna Aktionists.

I think she was rephrasing your question better than you had put it, it's not "do you think that tax money should be diverted to the arts?" but "how?" and "what are the consequences?"

I remember when PBS did something at least a decade ago on gay dudes on P.O.V. and people got all bent out of shape because they showed a naked black dude. Did they need to show a naked black dude? I don't know, but it probably pissed off a bunch of family values Americans who didn't want their tax money to go to black dick on tv. Anyways, for all the black dick shown on PBS, they're are probably 100 times that some tv artist left a black dick on the cutting room floor. Meanwhile, you can show as much black dick as you want on Public Access (anything goes except pissing and shitting)- but that's not funded by tax money, it's private money from the cable companies in remuneration for using the public infrastructure to carry their product. Less watered down, no responsibility to the public because of no tax money.

pot. kettle. black. dick.
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 3:28 pm    

I remember when PBS did something at least a decade ago on gay dudes on P.O.V. and people got all bent out of shape because they showed a naked black dude.


I programmed that. TONGUES UNTIED.

And it is EXACTLY what i'm talking about. Sambeaux, you get my point, my argument and my concerns completely and totally.

PBS has a MANDATE to serve the under-served. Lots of audience contingents make up the "under-served" (by television, that is)

As part of the "under-served," I truly believed then that gay Black men are a big part of that population... hence, programming for them, by a gay Black man rather than someone who doesn't have a clue what it is like to be gay, Black or male and all three.

SO - when one talks about the Urban Arts Commission, which gets funding from the City of Memphis, one is talking about exactly the same relationship between the outlet (ie: PBS & its series and the UAC) and public money...

and etcetera
saispas
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 3:38 pm    

I programmed that. TONGUES UNTIED.


I thought it was titled "MANDINGO"?

Ooops. Wrong black dick and wrong channel! Early HBO ruled!

(I love you TK and SAMBEAUX)
Theresa K
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 3:39 pm    
HBO

the woman who was my assistant at PBS is now a muckity muck in programming & production at HBO.

you cannot escape...
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 6:17 pm | Edited by: mokum    
Nice message board cliche, toolbox.

impressive vocabulary.

by the way, i'm sorry. you seem to be under the false impression that i actually care what you think.

hopefully that's cleared up now.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 6:20 pm | Edited by: Alisa    
by the way, i'm sorry. you seem to be under the false impression that i actually care what you think.


Here's a simple question to those who have harped on about their 'tax dollars' being spent on art: what's wrong with public funding for the arts?

You ASKED what he thought!!!
Oh brother!
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 6:26 pm | Edited by: mokum    

You ASKED what he thought!!!
Oh brother!


not exactly.

regardless, i tend to lose interest in what someone think when there's an ad hominem mixed in with an opinion.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 7:09 pm    
very cerebral!
You have landed on the Goner Board. "Ad hominem" is practiced daily!

So is a bunch of LAMF. Let's All Make Friends!

And, you did ask.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 7:12 pm    
I don't think I like art.

I'd like to talk about my feelings.
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 7:21 pm    
What are your feelings, dear?
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:34 pm    
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

He's not saying that you are wrong because you are a douche bag.
He is saying that you are a douche bag, in addition to being wrong.

You have a nice vocabulary, but Sambeaux uses his words with more accuracy.
SAMBEAUX
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:35 pm    
OH, you're just saying that because you're my wife!
dirtywhite
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:38 pm    
Now, that's ad hominem!
Alisa
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:45 pm    
He's not saying that you are wrong because you are a douche bag.
He is saying that you are a douche bag, in addition to being wrong.


yes ma'am.

And, in addition:
Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes. This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. · Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in "Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together" (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. · A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in "Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination" (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem, being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in "Their recourse ... to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus" (Donna M. Riley).

Please feel free to refer to the percentage of correct usage, too.
Jack Stands
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:47 pm    
the homo of ad hominem

That's Sam all over!
mokum
Member
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 8:58 pm    
very cerebral!
You have landed on the Goner Board. "Ad hominem" is practiced daily!

So is a bunch of LAMF. Let's All Make Friends!

And, you did ask.


fair enough.
bruce
Member
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 8:54 am    
mmunkees
paristheatre
Member
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 10:46 am | Edited by: paristheatre    
Aja
Will
Member
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 11:48 am    
Throw out the hardware
Let's do it right
Your answer
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